Recently picked up a 1915 vintage LC Smith in 12ga that had been restored many years ago, and is in excellent condition.... I can see where stock was refinished, and a few hairline cracks fixed with expoxy etc. The barrels are in excellent condition, and the action is very tight, with lever still to right, etc. It's got auto ejectors, which is sort of rare on a field grade I hear.

I have bought some 1oz 2/34 DE loads for it, which should be sufficiently low recoil enough to safely shoot in the gun. I feel good using these for most smaller birds, rabbits, etc.

If I wanted to hunt pheasants with the gun, any recommendations on shells? Maybe look at RST? On the LC Smith collectors FAQ, it said try to keep pressure below 8500 psi.

Anyone using a gun like this for pheasants?

I also have a 1927 Vintage NID that is in almost new un-altered condition. It's my understanding that the NID's can take a little more punishment..... Maybe I just use the Elsie onsmaller birds, and the NID on pheasants.

Here is a pic of the LC Smith and my NID 12ga.

Nice guns, enjoy shooting them both. There are many in the L.C. Smith organization that shoot pheasants with their guns. The problem with going to higher velocity and heavier payloads is the wood behind the locks. If you want to shoot heavier loads I would suggest you have the inletted wood acgraglassed.

It's possible, that has already been done when the stock was refinished. I'd need to pull the side plates to do that.... May need to take a peek.

Here are my 16's..

1927 Fox Sterlingworth & a 1926 Ithaca NID.

The Fox has 28" barrels, and the NID 26". I had the stock on the Fox refinished by a master woodworker, as it has a small hairline crack in the wrist. Will probably have barrels re-blued at some point.

If the stock head was properly glassed and reinforced at the time the stock was refinished, your Smith can/will handle pheasant loads with ease. In one of my past restoration/experimentation projects, I restored a battered 1903 vintage Grade 5E Smith that still had a solid set of 32" barrels and good engraving. The gun was restocked to my tastes in the original Hunter style using exhibition English; and the chambers of its 32" barrels were lengthened to 3" (ample wall thickness to do so). This gun was to be a shooter so I made sure the stock head was properly bedded. The result was that the gun absorbed with ease every load I used to include the occasional 3" mag. This was a beautiful gun, and on those days when I could calculate the correct lead; that gun would drop doves at 60 yards plus. Some of the most memorial trips I've had afield were with that Smith; and looking back, I'm at a loss now to understand why I traded it away? Just badly afflicted with "doublegunitis" I suppose; as it seems in those days I was forever looking for the next best thing once the "shine" was gone from whatever it was I already owned.

Several years ago I took an 1899 grade 2 LC to South Dakota
I was with a group shooting 3 in auto loaders. Everyone of them was shocked how well "weak" shells were dropping birds.
I shot B&P 2.5 in High Pheasant loads in #6.

There is a fairly well know LC Smith restorer, gunsmith down in Pevely MO, I may swing the gun by him to take a look at it. I may have him do the restore work I want done on my Sterlingworth barrels as well.

BTW, this is my first Elsie, and it appears to have what is called the FW action, as it has the smaller lug, and rounded receiver, etc.
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/frames.html

I don't see the 2.5" shells on their website. What oz load/velocity were these? RST sells 1 oz 1150 velocity #6 shot in 2.75" shells. I would imagine something like this would work fine, as long as I do my part.

Looks like an old Victor paper-mache mallard decoy? You have some nice shotguns...Geo

Actually, that's an old Carrylite I found at a flea market....

I began duck hunting with paper-mache decoys in the '50s. They worked but eventually all got waterlogged and smashed somehow...Geo

Back to the gun and shells. I have a 1927 12 gauge Ithaca (NOT Ithica, by the by) Grade 2- DT, ext. 30" M&F (no 2 and no. 4 chokes) and also a 1916 Field Grade 12 gauge L.C. Smith, same specs and stock dims as the NID- 30" M&F- one of the many nice things about Smith 12 gauges, they had std. 2& 3/4" chambers, as does the NID. I shoot up to 1250 fps. 2& 3/4" AA Handicap and also 1& 1/4 no. 6 RST pheasant loads in them all the time- although if I were hunting in SD with the 1&1/4 loads, I'd use one of my several 12 gauge Model 12's. When pheasant shooting with either of these "un-matched pair" of 30" barreled 12 bore doubleguns, I use a 1& 1/8 ounce load of 7&1/2 shot in the right barrel (front trigger, modified choke) and save the heavier 1& 1/4 ounce load of no. 6 chilled for the left barrel (rear trigger, full choke. I do this whether shooting over pointing dogs or flushing dogs.

I consider either of these solid oldies (The Smith is on the R or std. frame-Ithaca did not offer frame size options: R or FW as with the LC Smith- or the 1-1&1/2-2 frame sizes on the "carriage bolted Parker guns"-- One of the many things that jerks my chain on the gun sellers internet websites (GB, GA, GI, and also Cabela's-- besides spelling Ithaca as Ithica, is the idiots that describe the pre-1913 field grade L.C. Smiths they are trying to sell as being "On the OO size frame" Bullcookies- that is a pre-1913 grading number code from Hunter Arms- after 1913 it was designated as the Field grade.

I also prefer my Smiths (I own and shoot 5- all 12 gauge) to have extractors- easier to close and recock, and as I do a lot of barnyard and farmlot shooting in the off bird seasons, and I also reload, not having to shag my empties out of the cowshit or cornrows is a advantage- it also reduces greatly the chances of the farmer's livestock ingesting the plastic hulls-

Only one of my 12 Smiths is on the FW frame- a 1940 mfg. 12 Ideal grade- 28" Imp. cyl. and Mod- DT, Ext- and it will sometimes double if I fire a 1250 load in the right barrel first, same as when I should choose to fire the left barrel (rear trigger) first- but with 1150 fps. loads, it functions like a Rolex-- so, if your Smith is on a FW frame, you might want to check this out. What I do is load the second barrel with a snap cap with masking tape over the primer area- if your gun is doubling, when you open the breech, besides the pierced or dented primer on the shell that fired, you will also see a hole pierced in the masking tape. Not a good thing.

"There is a fairly well know LC Smith restorer, gunsmith down in Pevely MO, I may swing the gun by him to take a look at it. I may have him do the restore work I want done on my Sterlingworth barrels as well"

That gunsmith would be Buck Hamlin, and Buck is the individual who performed the restoration and stock work on the 5E Smith gun I referenced in my previous post. You won't go wrong choosing Buck, and you can count on Buck to be completely honest. If you do choose Buck, I'd suggest you call in advance of your visit - 636/479-4304.

I called Buck one day a couple weeks ago, just to make sure he's still down there and all. Got to talk guns with him for quite a while, seems like a really nice guy. One of those salt of the earth types....

My smith, definitely has the FW receiver. I read somewhere on here, that Smith did not start putting the FW designation in front of the serial number until about 1918 or so. My gun is a 1915, and only has an "E" on it, no FW. But, it's definitely the FW frame.

More than likely, I'll just use my NID if I want to shoot anything heavier, or I have a nice contraption called a Beretta AL391 Urika II that will handle heavy loads if I have to. And, I shoot that gun pretty darn good usually. It's just doesn't put the same smile on my face as a SxS does.... :-)

The FW (Featherweight) gun is distinguishable from a Regular frame in that it has two screws on the left lock plate and one on the right plate. The Regular frame has only one screw.
Also not all FW framed guns are lighter than Regular framed guns having the same specs.

The "E" on your gun is for ejectors. The frame has nothing to do with ejecting, it is all in the for-end.

Correct, this is a FW frame, the screw patterns match, the smaller barrel lug, etc. But, it is a fairly light gun for a 28" 12ga SxS. My NID seems much heavier, although it does have 30" barrels. I need to weigh them.

Either way, happy with the gun, plan to shoot it this weekend.

Got to shoot the Elsie last weekend, it performed flawlessly, even if I didn't. Really like this shotgun, and looking forward to spending some time in the field with it this fall/winter.

Ejectors, safety, etc all functioned as they should.

Very happy with it.

BTW, ran across this... If I read this right, I would think 1 1/8 oz 3dram 1200 fps loads would have been normal for this gun back in the day.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview



c. 1900: The “standard” U.S. 12 gauge Field and Inanimate Target load was 1 1/4
oz. shot with 3 1/4 Dram Equivalent (1220 fps) of Bulk Smokeless in a
2 5/8” or 2 3/4” case, with a modern transducer pressure of 8000 - 9500 psi.
Live Bird loads were usually 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. Bulk Smokeless Powder
with a pressure of about 11,750 psi

Just before WWI: The “standard” U.S. 12g Field and Target load was
1 1/8 oz. shot with 3 Dr. Eq. (1200 fps) Dense Smokeless in a 2 3/4” case
with a transducer pressure of 8,500 - 10,000 psi.

Joe: Hunter Arms hand tags for 12 gauge specified 3 Dram with 1 1/4 oz. shot (1887 - about 1920), then 3 dram with 1 1/8 oz. shot (after 1920).

As you mention in the first post, there has been a repair of the left inferior finger of the head of the stock. Until you know the quality and extent of that repair, and whether the head of the stock was glasbedded, I would stick with 1 oz. target loads.
Please see
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17090409

My big country pheasant gun is a 1906 12g 00. The head of the stock has been glasbedded, so I'm confident using B&P MB Classic 1 1/8 oz. at 1330 fps. For recreational skeet however I use B&P Competition One 7/8 oz at 1160 fps.

I am planning to stick to the 1 oz loads for now, and plan to have the gun looked at before too long. The stock appears to be expertly repaired, very much like the Fox I had repaired.

I would think, but do not know for sure that anyone that went through the expense of having the stock redone, and the crack fixed, would have glass bedded it as well, but will try to find that out. Is there any real trick to taking off the side plates and taking a peek? This is the first Smith or sidelock I have ever owned. So have no experience taking it apart.

TO TAKE OFF THE LOCK PLATES- First cock the hammers, turn out the lock screw and drive off right lock plate by tapping head of lock screw after the thread has cleared right lock plate; insert screw from opposite side and drive off left lock plate. Clean and oil each piece before putting back... (From the Hunter Arms Co. L. C. Smith Gun 1920s Hang Tags)



You will not be able to assess the extent of the previous repairs, or glasbedding, without looking at the head of the stock, which would require separation of the action and stock, which you DON'T want to attempt without expert guidance. Getting things apart ain't hard; it's the getting them back together that is the challenge!

Courtesy of David Williamson.
Make sure that the hammers are cocked and that you have the right size screw driver or bit to fit the slots. Remove front screws, one on each side if a Featherweight (if screws slots were orientated to length of gun, make sure you mark them left and right). Remove long side plate screw and I insert it in the threaded hole (right side plate) and either it will pull off or lightly tap the plate with the back of a screwdriver and it should come off. On the left hand side lock plate I insert a 1/8" drift pin into the rear hole in the right side housing and lightly tap the other (left) side lock off (this hole is fairly large to accept the sears.)
Look inside and see how everything looks. Make sure firing pins do not fall out when you turn gun over.
FOR REASSEMBLY The long neck of the sideplate has a spur-like protrusion that fits into the receiver housing; this must be inserted first or else the sideplate will not go on. That part actually locks the side plate in. If you moved the cocking rods at the end of the receiver, (the two lever type devices), make sure that they are in the upward position or else the lifter on the cocking rod will not let the side lock plate fit.
Also be sure the hammers are (still) cocked and the triggers are in the down/lower position.



You will likely need to grind a bit to EXACTLY fit the lock screw slot, and may need to tap around the edge of the lockplate with a plastic hammer to loosen the plate. You don't want to chip the wood around the lockplate.

thanks!

"You will likely need to grind a bit to EXACTLY fit the lock screw slot"

Brother Drew, that was written quite a while ago, before I bought a set of Wheeler bits.
They have bits that fit every screw on/in an L.C. Smith exactly as to width and length of slot..