I'm considering deer hunting this year, mainly because one of my sons has moved back and I'd like to hunt with him. I'd really like to use my Remington 1889 hammer gun. I'm thinking of using the slug below with three dr. of BP loaded into a paper hull and roll crimped. Do I need other components for the load? I am well equipped with roll crimping supplies, I've just never made a slug load.

Regards
Ken

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Thug-Slug-12ga-1oz-25_pk/productinfo/1261228/

The attached plastic wad on the slug might melt with the use of BP (or a BP Sub) and leave a real mess in the bores.
That's not an uncommon problem when using BP and modern plastic wads and most all plastic shotshell hulls.'

I'd use a plain round ball or a plain foster type slug roll crimped in over plain card and fiber wads. They worked fine before plastic came to be.

I've never found a plastic wad that'd stand up to the heat and not melt and deposit plastic breech to muzzle in the bore., so it's card and fiber wads only for me.


Just my 02.

Aree with cutter about the use of plastic with black. I also wondered since those slugs with their attached wads were made for use with smokeless if you would even be able to get a 3 dram charge of black under them & still be able to crimp. Black takes up considerably more space than smokeless.

Thanks,

I've done a search and it looks like the only source for Foster slugs is Ballistics Products, and naturally they're out of stock.

Regards
Ken

Here's some on BrokeGunner => http://www.gunbroker.com/item/585901662

I've done business with Ed a few times. Great guy and willing to work with a fellow on size or hardness if needed.

Thanks!

If you want to try a round ball I have .610, .690, and .715. Check the muzzle of your gun first. Almost all the old SxS's are choked and you wouldn't want anything bigger than your muzzle or you're going to have a bigger muzzle when done. Like maybe one ripped open. My !873, 82, 89, and 94s are all choked at least mod and most full. If the bores are .729 and full choke would be .030, or .699 at the muzzle. A .690 ball would work fine. I also have some extra wads you could try - OP cards, cushion wads, and OS cards. Let me know if interested - bladesmith46@hotmail.com - you pay the shipping. What ever you decide check the muzzle diameter and don't use any bullet/ball combo with plastic. Even the BP substitutes will melt plastic and after a couple of shots you'll have a mess to clean. Good luck - Paul

[quote=Ken61]I'm considering deer hunting this year, mainly because one of my sons has moved back and I'd like to hunt with him. I'd really like to use my Remington 1889 hammer gun. I'm thinking of using the slug below with three dr. of BP loaded into a paper hull and roll crimped. Do I need other components for the load? I am well equipped with roll crimping supplies, I've just never made a slug load.

Regards
Ken

I don't know about where you live, but here is only game available are: deer, squirrels, Euro-asian dove, turkey, ducks, geese and the Corvidae family for live practice I suggest Ohio made Ithaca 37 Turkeyslayer with fixed 24" barrel. You will need Browning Inv. Plus riled tube designed for both rifled and sabot slugs. The best rifled slug for mine is reduced velocity/recoil Fiocchi and best sabot from Winchester. This gun will serve all your needs: small game, big fame and HD. The best pump gun I have ever owned. I would let that Remington hammer gun go. As time goes by suitable ammo will be more and more difficult to find.

Jager,

Nah, I have several modern guns, some of which I've hunted deer with. I used to shoot deer with a Lanber Model 85, which threw Brenneke slugs very nicely and had ejectors to boot. It came in handy the last day of the season when we were trying to fill all the party's tags. My sons going to be using that this year. If I don't go the Vintage route I'll use my Grandfather's 20 GA Mossberg bolt action, which is more than adequate here in Eastern Iowa, where the deer are big and the distances are close.

Paul,

Thanks, I should have considered the pumpkin ball route. I'll measure my chokes and send you a PM. According to the pellet count numbers on the tubes, it should be choked Modified and Improved Modified, so hopefully one of your ball sizes will work. I'll stick my dent remover in the muzzles.

Regards
Ken

Look under the barrel flats, and if one says "Not for ball" believe it.

If it says "Not For Ball" it means it should not be used with a Bore Fitting Ball. this had been the common size balls used prior to choke boring. It is still OK to use it with a ball which is small enough to clear the choke. This has been being done ever since the development of Choke Boring. The confusion over this was the reason the "Not For Ball" was dropped from use & replaced by the simple word "Choke". Regardless of how the barrel is marked just make certain the ball will go through the choke without creating an obstruction & their will be no problem.
All this can be found in W W Greener's writings of well over a century ago. One would think it had surely been settled by now.Old reloading data from Ideal etc recommends using a 14 gauge ball in a 12 gauge gun with choke.

The gun is a Remington 1889, rather than an English one. It's very stout, one of the reasons I'm considering using slugs with it. That and the whole concept of using a Vintage double for deer. It wouldn't surprise me if I wasn't the first one to down a deer with it.

Regards
Ken

FWIW, Buchshot works great. And it's barrel friendly, and doesn't shred the meat.

Unfortunately it's illegal in my State.

Oh.
Well, then I guess plan b is mic the chokes, and look for a slug that fits your barrels best.
The rest isn't that tough to do.

FWIW, I match bullet/sabot thickness to the barrels on my muzzleloaders to get better accuracy with them.
Sabots are available in .001 increments, I don't know if slugs are. Somebody is probably molding some.

You can do as a friend of mine used to. He didn't want to bother casting slugs (or bullets in general). but wanted to hunt deer with BP slug loads in his SxS damascus.
So he simply bought a couple 5-packs of over the counter on sale Foster type slugs. Whatever was cheapest, and cut the shells open to get the slugs themselves out. Then loaded the lead into his own BP shells. Like he used to say, how many rounds do I need anyway,,10 ought to do it for the season.
I usually did and then some.
Saved a lot of time, effort and expense as he saw it.

(I think He used to reload the slug shells w/a light load of shot and use them up too but he never told anybody)

That's probably the best solution considering I shouldn't need more than ten rounds. Would a rifled slug work if I removed the plastic base and used fiber wads? As long as it was smaller than the choke?

Regards
Ken

As long as the naked lead slug will pass through the choke bored bbl, you're OK. Doesn't matter if the slug is smooth or rifled,,hollow base or solid, round nose or flat.

The card & fibre wads are supposed to be a tight fit in the bore and can easily compress even more to pass through a tight choke w/o a problem.

I wouldn't bother physically attaching the wad to the base of the slug like the Brenneke slug if you had that in mind.

Just powder, over-powder wad, filler wad to bring the slug up to proper height for a roll crimp.
Worked fine for many years that way. Simple too.

Ken, my offer still stands. A good friend who is quite knowledgeable claims SxS shotguns don't shoot round balls very good - no group. Now he's also a gunsmith and pistol/rifle shooter, so maybe he expects a little too much.

The problem with doubles is the barrels are converging not parallel so solid ball do cross over at some point. Question is when and how far do they drift apart down range. If they cross at 30 and are six inches apart at 60 you could use that type information to adjust your hold point to get decent accuracy. You are limited to simple bead sight and can not expect single hole grouping at 75 yards but you should get decent results to 50 yards. Your hunting to be with family not put meat on the table to feed your family so you can always be selective.

We use to use a paper plate as a target at 50 yards and knew if we could hit the paper plate it would be a fair substitute for a deers vitals. So as long as we could reliable hit the plate we were good because slug energy was never the issue just accuracy.

So many options. I should just open up 10 of my low pressure reloads and replace the wads and shot with rifled slugs, base and all. That would avoid BP completely.