Hi Guys. I have been playing with this J. Wangler dual ignition pinfire & centerfire 14 gauge. It was made in the early 1870's. I call it the "Bear Trap Gun" because of the teeth that protrude into the trigger guard. A special thanks to Bill Bates for the outstanding photos. Enjoy! [img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51142/[/img]
[img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51150/[/img] [img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51151/[/img] [img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51152/[/img] [img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51153/[/img] [img:left]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51144/[/img]

What a contraption. Could you provide an image of the Belgian marks on the underside of the tubeset? Moose Snoot & I have been chasing Puškar Jan Wangler v. Jenikove(Golcuv Jenikov) on ShotgunWorld and I believe Moose Snoot ferreted out the patent for the 22 part scattergun mousetrap?



"Progress in the construction of the hunting rifle
The already well-known gunsmith Mr. I. Wangler from Kuttenberg in Bohemia, who recently received a patent for the construction of a Lancaster double gun, from which also Lefaucheux cartridges can be fired, and which is arranged in such a way that a Lancaster cartridge after being discharged is extracted from the chamber, but only when discharged, has recently come up with another very practical invention.
The same man has now constructed a new rifle, in which the locks are lodged/inserted in the stock(?), neither the lock plates nor the Schraube is visible, only the hammers
The two locks, which, as is known, consist so far of twenty-two parts, have only nine of these in the new construction, and is available with only seven on request, and both the locks and other rifle parts can be disassembled in a few moments without the use of screwdrivers and spring clamps etc.
The whole construction is very simple, solid, and it is now possible for this gunsmith, through the simplicity of his invention, to compete with every large manufacturer of guns.
These guns are already well-known by hunters here in the area.

I consider myself obliged to report of this interesting invention to the reader of the magazine.
Schrambol (possibly Schrambok) at Lestina in Bohemia on May 7, 1885.
Ignaz Ritter Rachodsky"

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...e79091b7953cdac

I'll attempt to move some of the info.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Reminds me a bit more of an alligator / cocodrilo?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

What a piece of wood. Jani, what is the proper name of the stock/grip?

I know that gun...I took the photos for a good friend. It is always interesting to see where my photos show up.

Here are a few more/

Any chance there is a image to see what the port in the butt-plate accommodates?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Do I understand correctly that the dual ignition system works like this ?

When using it in a pinfire mode, the pins in the hammer noses must be retracted or removed.

When in the centerfire mode, the pins in the hammer noses are extended to block the pinfire pin openings in the barrel breech when the hammer is fired.

ellenbr, sorry I just looked through my files and I didn't have any photo with the trap all the way open. I will be seeing the owner in a couple of hours so I will ask him what is in the trap.

Here are the last two images which I had not uploaded before.

There is a Czech book "Cesti puskari" by Vladimir Dolinek
isbn 80-206-0758-7. I believe the author is/was Kustos in a Prague
museum.
The gun is featuring on page 86 incl some details on
this WANGLER Ignac and also on page 139.
Felix Neuberger

Now I know why I read these pages.

danc

I. (Ignác)Wangler z Kutné Hory was the son of Jan Wangler but I'm not sure if the advances in technology didn't prohibit him from utilizing his father's design. Yeah, these off the wall designs & examples are most addictive. I'd say that w/ the images & the info that this topic could warrant a submission for publication in the beloved DGJ or Double Gun & Single Shot Journal.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thank you all for the great replies. I did not know there was that much information out there on such an obscure gun. An article in the in the Double Gun Journal with the fantastic photos that Bill Bates took would be a great addition to the publication. I am sure our readers would enjoy hearing and seeing more about it. By the way, The trap door in the butt holds a vintage pull thru for cleaning.

Thanks again to all of you!

You can actually fire the pinfire shells with the pins still installed although personally I would remove them. Only the very front of the hammer nose falls on the shell for ignition. The pins actually act as the extractors for the centerfire shells. They can be adjusted for size of the shell rim and tube thickness.

Where can I get a copy of this book?

https://www.megaknihy.cz/valecne/20409-cesti-puskari.html

You do not say where you live, so this might be close by?

Mike

I bought the book ca 10 years ago in a bookshop at Vaclavske namesti in Prague. If still valid try:
Quote
Nase vojsko s.r.o
Vitezne namesti 4
Praha 6
Unquote
The book has some other water-mouthering stuff in there, is something for pre1900gun-freaks, which is not the case with me.
Will try to provide some photos out of the book ( patience please). Has extensive bibliography therein and all the
names one will find on Czech guns ( for instance
has a dozen of Nowotnys....)
Felix Neuberger
(Please note that I cant apply correct Czech accents..)
All photos courtesy Nasje Vojsko
Another I.Wangler gun with same system as above
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51164
Text item on I. Wangler
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51165
A.Lebeda revolver
Reputedly legacy item of late A.Machac(+1978)
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51166
Four barrel gun - action details unknown
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51167

I too wish Dave would change the character typeset or font to accommodate the breadth of characters in other languages.

What is the purpose of the Pinfire slots on the underside of the tubes?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

If I owned this gun I wouldn't care if it shot or not. It is is one of the more magnificent understated guns(embellishment wise) that I've seen in awhile!
Jim

Original article for those Germanic speaking folk w/ the proper monocle for Fraktur.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I think the "pinfire slots" you refer to on the bottom of the tubes may actually be sort of guide slots that keep the barrels positioned properly. I think I saw the "male" portion of the guide positioned at the bottom of the standing breech.

Many thanks Mr. Hallquist and good eye.


Protrusions or notches for alignment.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

4 photos included in my post above
Felix Neuberger

This gun combines everything i love. The obsolescence of the 14 bore, the imperfection of the pinfire, the experimentation in gunmaking at the time, and the pace of change ( I have also seen Flintlock dual ignition percussion guns )

A fantastic gun, thanks for sharing - Very interesting.

So, there is an actually 1882 patent, filed by Ignác Wangler? Considering the unabated substitution of I. & J. would Ignác Wangler have been abbreviated J.(Ignác) Wangler instead of Jan Wangler, even though the city is not proper?

Interesting to see that Ignác Wangler z Kutné Hory continued the use of the technology of his father.







Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Syn Jana W., narozen 1842, v Kutné Hore od 1868, v 80. letech patentovane zbrane vlastni konstrukce, bronzova medaile na prumyslove a zemedelstve vystave v Terstu, 1883 bronzova medaile na Zemske hospodarske vystave v Bubenec; u Prahy, zemrel 1890(unor), živnost prevzala manzelka Marie, po jejimz umrti(kveten 1890) prevzal zivnost jeji bratr Josef Švejda
(of course w/out proper accents)

Dvojku s posuvnými hlavnemi zhotovil v 80. letech 19. stoleti puškar Ignác Wangler v Kutné Hory. Byl autorem konstrukce této zbrane, na niz ziskal patent v roce 1882.

Forced translation:

Son of John W., born 1842 in Kutna Hora from 1868, in the '80s patented weapons of its own design, a bronze medal at the industrial and agriculture exhibition in Trieste, 1883 bronze medal at the Provincial Exhibition of Bubenec in Prague, died in 1890 (February) , business took wife Marie, after which deaths (May 1890) took over the trade brother Josef Švejda
Two with a sliding barrels, made in the 80s of the 19th century gunsmith Ignatius Wangler in Kutna Hora. He was the author of the design of the weapon, where he won a patent in the year, 1882.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The Puškar' on top rib seems to read J. Burda in Prag?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post276370

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Büchsenmacher und Schister(?)/Schießt??
Johann Burda in Prag - 1847 listing

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Bohemian Büchsenmacher 1863 listing.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for all the info Raimey. It sure would be neat to get an article published for this gun.

To anyone with the idea to come up with an article on this,
dont reinvent the wheel, get a copy of these Czech hunting-gun magazines - articles on I.Wangler
. Strelecka revue 1974/4 p 27-28
. Myslivost 1987/12
Both contain articles by Vladimir Dolinek ,same author as the previously
referenced book. (ex bibliography)
He is also featuring in the Dorotheum Prague auction house
list as expert for guns.
Or more simply invite him to write the article or
at least coauthor it.
"Go east man, go east and learn Czech"
Cheers
Felix

I have a Solvenian acquaintance that is pen pals w/ Vladimir Dolinek, so that should not be an issue.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Another I.Wangler
The lower one seems to be the same as shown before,
the upper one is a "new" found
Ex Czech book "Vzacne zbrane a zbroj"
/ ze sbirek vojenskeho muzea v Praze.
Nr (?isbn) 28-031-86. 09/18
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51290
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/51291
Text author once more V.Dolinek
Felix Neuberger

Paste the IMG files.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse