I have been officially bitten by the hammer gun bug. Although I am still very novice compared to a lot of you and still learning about them, I have come to appreciate the amount of skill and art that went in crafting those guns about 120-140 years ago. I love reading about them and looking at their lines, engraving, wood/metal, etc. Having said that, I was wondering how many of you shoot hammer guns? Do you use them primarily for hunting or clay shooting? How often do you take these old guns out shooting? Also, it would be great if you can post pics of your favorite hammer guns. BillK
I have a non-rebounding hammer gun completed March 6, 1866. I've shot over 6,000 rounds through this gun since I bought it. I shoot both clays and quail with it - in fact I took it to the quail farm today and, when I pointed it in the right place, it killed quail handily.
Holland & Holland 12 gauge hammer gun, SN 21796, 30" steel barrels, 2 1/2" chambers, 1 1/8 ounce Nitro Proofed, about a 1900 +/- vintage gun. Mostly skeet and sporting clays with 1/2 and 3/4 ounce hand loads in RST hulls.
I have about six hammer guns, but my favorites are a modern Bernardelli Brescia 12ga/30"/straight grip and a circa 1880s Birmingham Lacey with 28"stub twist barrels. Use them both on doves with good success, as long as I'm not surrounded by yahoos with pumps and semis. Prefer to get out by myself and just enjoy the guns. Also have a Sarasqueta 20ga/32" that I can't hit squat with, and a Parker Damascus 12/30 that seems too nice to take out.
James Woodward & Sons for 1882. Clays and hunting. About 50% of my shooting - mostly 3/4 oz loads in 2 3/4" hulls. It has many years/generations left in it.
1941 Husqvarna 12ga 2 1/2 with 7/8 oz ITX 6's. It is my favorite waterfowl shotgun. The one shown is the one I use out in the salt marsh, I have another a little nicer for fresh water.
Cowboy action shooting. I shot a different hammer shotgun in every match in 2016. This one happen to be my W Richards side lever 12. The loads are black powder substitute BlackMZ loaded in brass hulls. You can see me fumble for the top snap when it's on the side.
Other shotguns include Baker Syracuse 10 gauge, L C Smith 10 Gauge, NID Ithaca 12, Colt 1878 12, Hopkins and Allen 12, Stevens 235 16 gauge, Remington 1889 in 12 and 10 gauge.
We're planning a new years match and I plan to shoot a Colt 1878 10 gauge.
Typically I dispatch most game w/ a hammergun and when I'm not toting such I find myself trying to cock the hammers on any other non-exposed hammer scattergun. Tips would be to just use one more to become accustom & then to always breach it prior to taking the hammers out of battery.
Really enjoy seeing the hammer guns, I would really enjoy one myself but hunting with a flushing dog (ESS) I barely have time to hit what flushes!
Any tips from you guys hunting with flushers and hammer guns?
My dog is a flusher. Doesn't seem to matter much to me which gun I use, so far as speed goes. When the dog is acting a bit birdy, I may move my thumb up over the hammers, but otherwise, I just cock the hammers as the gun comes up, just like one would slide off a tang safety on a hammerless double.
this one never flushed though. I confess, I shot him on the ground.
I did use it a lot for driven game and pigeon shooting though over the last ten years killing started to be not what I wanted to do like a number of my shooting friends, some how this way of thinking does seem come with age. So I use it as often as I can though now only for clay shooting with felt wad 1oz loads.
Damascus barrelled bar in wood thumb leaver opener Purdey built in 1869.
Carry it with the hammers cocked, but the action open. just make sure your finger is not inside the triggerguard until you mount the gun.
I am sure that works well in open country- but you'll never get through one of my northeast woodcock covers that way. The gun in the right hand as the left fights off briers on your way to the dog.
IMHO- rebounding hammers are as safe (if not more so) than the trigger blocking safety on most double guns. Cock the hammers on the rise for upland birds- I am lucky my thumb will fit across both hammers of my 12's - but the motion of cocking while raising a gun is learned quickly
the 10's are waterfowl guns and it takes a little practice to cock left then right in a smooth hurry - practice is what clays are for.
I could always cock "IOne" hammer as quickly as I can push off a safety, quicker than any safety other than a tang safety. I have small hands though with a short thumb so do not feel safe trying to thumb back two at the same time. Consequently although I admire the beauty & lines of a good hammer double I have done the vast majority of my hunting with hammerless guns. Safety is for the most part a matter of the shooter rather than the gun. I have to date never had a hammerless "Jar Off" though I do realize it has happened on occasion. I once while navigating a rather steep hillside stepped on a rock which rolled & I went down to the ground & slammed my hammerless Lefever real hard, it didn't go off. Personally I will never carry a gun open except on a very limited basis. This might entail if should happen to meet another hunter/s I might open the gun as we approached out of courtesy. I can very easily had I taken the above described tumble with my gun broken open it could very easily have put a tremendous twisting strain on the barrel which could have caused severe damage. Something to think about. "IF" I have to navigate an area through which I consider it unsafe to do so with a loaded & closed gun, I unload & reclose the gun. When I get safely through the area I then reload. The unexpected is of course what we have to take into account. The above instance of the rolling rock is an example. It occurred one day while I was trying to navigate into position to pot a squirrel for the pot & was intent on looking up in the tree. I generally squirrel hunted with a 22LR but on this particular day had carried the Lefever for some reason. It did however reaffirm my belief that a Lefever is not particularly susceptible to jarring off with their top hung sears & that a gun is not near so susceptible to being damaged when closed as when open. Take all this for whatever its worth to you, it didn't cost you anything.
I have a 12 gauge Husqvarna M51. I like it a lot, but I can't cock both hammers at once. Are some guns easier to do that with? Regards, Jeff
certainly- part of it is the stiffness of the spring - and i personally think the ones with higher spurs make it easier - for both the grip and the leverage. My Clabrough is an early number is the later low hammer design - its a wider action, being a 10 and not a lot of spur poking up - that one is always one at a time. the picture angle is a little low- but the spurs start near the level of top tang and barely clear the height of the short top lever
In contrast, my 12 bore Wm Moore & Grey is a light gun with a narrow wrist and higher spurs and a longer top lever- easily both at once
If I remember right - Bill's H&H is a stiff one - I don't think I can do that one both at once
Here are my hammer guns. I have only hunted pheasants in IL public land with the Charles Ingram so far and I did very well with it. I have only used them mostly in sporting clays and they do their part well, if I do my part. I am looking forward to taking them hunting in the near future also. BillK
Charles Ingram - 12Ga, rebound hammers, Jones under-lever, (my first hammer gun and my favorite so far).
A. Agnew - 12Ga, non-rebounding hammers, side-lever.
Ed. Kettner By Sauer - 16Ga, rebounding hammers, top-lever. I have not shot it yet. It is being restored by Gunter Pfrommer.
William Summners - 12Ga, rebounding hammers, top-lever. I am anxiously waiting to receive it from the auction house. The suspense is killing me!!!
Holland & Holland 12 gauge hammer gun, SN 21796, 30" steel barrels, 2 1/2" chambers, 1 1/8 ounce Nitro Proofed, about a 1900 +/- vintage gun. Mostly skeet and sporting clays with 1/2 and 3/4 ounce hand loads in RST hulls.
I shoot two 60s vintage Italian hammer guns, Bernardelli Brescia which I have had for 50 years, and an Armi San Marco, 12 gauge choked Lt. Modified, Imp. Modified. I shoot black powder Trap regularly, and upland birds occasionally with them.
Here's a BIG Parker #6 Frame 10ga Top Lever Hammer gun with 36" barrels, weight 15 lbs!!! I use it to shoot ducks. BIG fun a real beast!Made in 1905, the original consignee was a William Wampler from Carmi IL.
I sometimes use the W&C Scott 2 7/8" 10ga I bought from a For Sale on this website to hunt Turkeys. The one below is one of a pair I called in and took with the Scotty the 1st time I used it.
I heard a gobbler cluck up the hill on a two path logging road and called. Both birds came out of an Oak hammock and strutted side by side down the logging road and straight to me. I wanted to see what the Scott would do and waited till the birds lined up their necks. One shot laid them both down.
There's only one bird in the picture because the other one got up to run when I walked up. The 10 pretty much destroyed that bird's head when he made a break for it. I didn't want to put the bloody bird on the hood of my car...Geo
WOW - Photo Bucket really ruined this thread! As I am not a PB subscriber the vast majority of the pictures in this entire thread are blocked from my view.... Pity!
I have a bunch of Parker Bros. hammer guns in 10, 12, and 16 gauges and I hunt, shoot SC and Trap and Skeet with all of them.
I sure wish Dave would make the necessary changes to allow direct posting of pictures.
I agree with Dean, "Thank you PB" ! I have a Parker G 16 that I shoot sporting clays with and a Bonehill 20 ga with 30" barrels that I really like shooting on SC's
Thanks for bringing this one back up Keith. One of my favorites as well.
Opposable thumbs (and maybe greater brain capacity) have made the human species the pre-eminent animal on Earth at present. Not using them to operate your doublegun should be a sin...Geo
I sometimes use the W&C Scott 2 7/8" 10ga I bought from a For Sale on this website to hunt Turkeys. The one below is one of a pair I called in and took with the Scotty the 1st time I used it.
I heard a gobbler cluck up the hill on a two path logging road and called. Both birds came out of an Oak hammock and strutted side by side down the logging road and straight to me. I wanted to see what the Scott would do and waited till the birds lined up their necks. One shot laid them both down.
There's only one bird in the picture because the other one got up to run when I walked up. The 10 pretty much destroyed that bird's head when he made a break for it. I didn't want to put the bloody bird on the hood of my car...Geo
Is that the same Scott as on the first page of this thread?
The majority of my doublegun shooting with hammers has been with a percussion muzzle loader. For breech loaders I prefer hammerless. This gun has safety & full cock notches, no half cock. In the field I always carried it with hammers in the safety notch. I have small hands & short thumb no way I could safely cock both hammers together. Upon flushing game i cocked one hammer & fired. If there was time or need I cocked the other & fired again. Sure I lost some shots but that was far preferable than endangering a hunting companion or dogs.
Never, Ever carry a gun muzzle or breech loading, hammer or hammerless having non rebounding locks with the hammer down resting on a live cap or primer, that is a total No-No.
though over the last ten years killing started to be not what I wanted to do like a number of my shooting friends, some how this way of thinking does seem come with age. So I use it as often as I can though now only for clay shooting with felt wad 1oz
I see the attraction of hunting, especially with good dogs, friends, family, an unspoiled landscape and an old gun. However, for me, the killing part makes it a no go.
though over the last ten years killing started to be not what I wanted to do like a number of my shooting friends, some how this way of thinking does seem come with age. So I use it as often as I can though now only for clay shooting with felt wad 1oz
I can see the attraction of hunting, especially with good dogs, friends and family. However, for me, the killing part makes it a no go.
To each his own
I wonder if that was true of the men who originally bought and used these guns we hold so dearly, or if it is more of a modern thought that is a result of our "more civilized" society? ("more civilized" is used sarcastically here)
I cannot imagine my becoming so put off by killing a game bird that I no longer shoot doves or hunt ducks. I can see how the effort required to do so in our winter years may take a bit of the joy out of it, but that is another subject entirely.
Bushmaster, I can understand your position, and I respect it. A few years ago I walked out to pick up a green-wing teal I'd shot in Canada. The little thing was still alive and I had to kill it.
At that moment I was thunderstruck with remorse and the same feelings about killing you are experiencing. Thankfully, I got over it...Geo
As I close in on the final chapter of life, I can understand the ambivalence some may have of killing versus not killing. I haven't reached that point, but others I know have. One man, who closed out the final chapter, stopped shooting ducks, but still loved the trappings of the sport. He would accompany shooters in the blind, but for personal reasons, couldn't and wouldn't shoot them. He would, however, eat them. Another friend will no longer hunt ducks, but enjoys hunting other bird species. It would be easy for some to call it hypocrisy, but I don't. Gil
As a youngster I had the opportunity to shoot a lot of game and I took advantage of it frequently. Looking back the numbers of four legged and winged creatures I shot seems staggering. I suppose the warrior instinct was the driving force of those days. But times have changed me. A gradual process I really wasn't even conscious of occurred in midlife. The elation of success taking a deer or elk began to be tempered with a sadness and increased to the point I seldom pulled the trigger, just enjoyed being out and having the opportunity. Often took a photo of a buck or bull I fooled, told him "howdy" and parted happy as can be with rifle in hand. The same has happened with birds though to a lesser extent. Ducks, geese, and cranes are safe with me around. Quail I still pursue with a passion but now I most enjoy watching the dog work, the fellowship, and the outdoors. More than anything else I enjoy standing back with gun open watching my younger hunting partner walk in on a point. Yes, over three quarters of a century has tempered me in a very comfortable way. I like it a lot.
Age has a lot to do with it. This morning, duck hunting with two friends, we were more interested in fine-tuning my Lab. Two of us never fired a shot. This afternoon, we'll be hunting from lay-out and blind in corn field, only one shooting with his grandson, the whole show for the dog. The killing is still there but I think it's tempered with more reason, stewardship, friendship, the day and the dog than when we were young. Ages 73, 77 and 86.
Even plants have life, though they don't walk, run or fly as does animals & birds. If one does not eat that which is killed, they will in a very short time be simply be dead of starvation. I grew up on home killed chicken, pork, beef & goat meat, along with some game & fish. I still wish that I was able to survive primarily on that which I had killed myself, rather than slaughter house killed from the store.
Here's my little Charles Daly 12 gauge from the early 70's with original length 28" barrels. Light, lively and a bird shooting machine! Cylinder in both and perfect for flushing quail. Often my gun of choice. The non original hook on the trigger guard tang has since been removed.
James, be careful or you will suddenly wonder why all the BLEs are in the cabinet. Recently found myself owner of a Pieper hammer gun and thought of you.
Bushmaster, I can understand your position, and I respect it.
Thanks
I think people did not rag on me because I did not rag on hunting or hunters. One nice thing about being human is that you often get to make choices about how you want to enjoy the world.
That said, I am headed out to large a show in December and I might be compelled to get a hammergun.
James, be careful or you will suddenly wonder why all the BLEs are in the cabinet. Recently found myself owner of a Pieper hammer gun and thought of you.
John, it’s a 16 gauge, bar in wood from about 1880. Calling my name!!!
As has been reiterated in this forum, it's not just MWT that is important but also where it is. Like real estate, it's location, location, and location. Gil
I would consider enduring some serious spousal unhappiness to own that Warrilow 20 gauge he has listed. What a beautiful little 20 gauge hammer gun with adult sized dimensions. Alas, having just bought a SIACE 28 gauge hammer gun and exhausted the toy fund, at $6,000 plus the import costs, it's going to remain in his inventory if buying it is up to me.
Stan that 2 bore punt gun, on the Hammergun web site would look nice in your hands. You could hear the roar. Almost no chance one shot would get you into any real trouble. Heck I'd give you a hand if you wanted.
I do wish someone would buy that Page Wood gun on page four. After I pay all my bills and taxes this year I'd be tempted to take a shot at it. Bet it swings well and 3/4 chokes work well for a lot of my hunting. If it were 2" longer it'd peak your interest as well I suspect. 32" hammer guns I suspect are going to be as rare as red John Deere tractors. They are out there but few more on the ground.
Stan that 2 bore punt gun, on the Hammergun web site would look nice in your hands. You could hear the roar. Almost no chance one shot would get you into any real trouble. Heck I'd give you a hand if you wanted.
Too much sugar for a dime, Jon. I might get to liking it, and find myself visiting the house of many doors.
I do wish someone would buy that Page Wood gun on page four. After I pay all my bills and taxes this year I'd be tempted to take a shot at it. Bet it swings well and 3/4 chokes work well for a lot of my hunting. If it were 2" longer it'd peak your interest as well I suspect. 32" hammer guns I suspect are going to be as rare as red John Deere tractors. They are out there but few more on the ground.
There are certainly many more 30" hammer guns out there than 32s. Most of the 30s aren't pigeon guns tho', even though the advertisement may call them that. A 6 1/2 - 7 lb. gun does not a pigeon gun make. Most were 8 lbs. and up. I'll find one eventually. I'm determined to stay the course.
though over the last ten years killing started to be not what I wanted to do like a number of my shooting friends, some how this way of thinking does seem come with age. So I use it as often as I can though now only for clay shooting with felt wad 1oz
I see the attraction of hunting, especially with good dogs, friends, family, an unspoiled landscape and an old gun. However, for me, the killing part makes it a no go.
To each his own
I sometimes feel that way. I was duck hunting last weekend and let a few go, for no particular reason. One was quacking at me on the water in my decoys so I just sat there and enjoyed watching her. I just enjoy being out there, and am very thankful to live in a country that provides so much opportunity to do that.
I generally believe that a couple of birds in the game bag is a perfect day hunting, but once in a while I think it would be fun to have catch and release hunting, like catch and release trout fishing. The closest thing to it that I know of is ruffed grouse hunting. I call it flush and release hunting. Most of the time I don't even see the grouse, who hides his thundering departure behind the cover between us. On the one out of eight flushes or so that I see the grouse, I often shoot and miss. Now that's flush and release hunting! It makes the occasional grouse in the bag extra special, even without the further challenge of using a hammer gun. So it went with the grouse which my son and I chased last month in New Hampshire.
The latest in my aquistion of Hammer doubles. I do hope farmer grade guns count. Here is a Hopkins & Allen with a sidelock in a boxlock frame.
John
The only issue I have with your "farmer grade" gun is that you failed to tell us about the tractor upon which it rests. I learned to drive at age 6 on my grandfather's Minneapolis Moline Model Z with a hand clutch. The first shotgun I ever shot was his "Allen Hardware Co" single shot 12 gauge. Farmer grade suits me.
The tractor is a 1953 Allis Chalmers, CA. This one is for sentimental reasons, but I grew up attached to the seat of a WD45 and a '37 flat top WC. Dad still has both those tractors. The '37 was the first tractor our family owned. Allis Chalmers was one of the few companies that would trade for horses.
