Just wondered if anyone has any experience of French Chapuis shotguns. I'm looking at a 12 bore over/under with a view to purchase. Only seen the adds so far and not yet handled one. The one I am looking at is the C35 model.
http://stephenandson-gunmakers.co.uk/gun-room/ Lagopus.....
I sure liked mine it was a SXS and doubled proofed. They make a good gun.
There is a guy up here who had a bespoke 28 gauge made for him on a double rifle action. Says its the only one like it Chapuis has ever made....something about being pals with the owners. Built to last!
He has it for sale know for about $26,000 cdn.
What's 26 K CND in real money? Just kidding. It must be very nice. Did he opt for the rifle action for weight, balance or was he thinking about adding a set of rifle barrels later?
Jon, that's a good question. Don't know the answer but when he has talked about it, he always refers to the strength of the action as in "never, ever shooting loose with 28 gauge shells".
So I'm guessing he was thinking of trying to outlast an M21??? lol
Don't know whether it's still the case, but Chapuis at one time was making more double rifles than anyone else. Relatively inexpensive, as double rifles go.
Several friends have them and like them. From what I have seen they are simple yet sophisticated designs with plenty of hand finishing. I have taken apart the SXS, but only examined the OUs assembled. They have a Boss like action with breech protruding locking bolts, bifurcated barrel pins and I would guess coil springs. The finish is way above the average mid level gun though.
Our importer offers stocks to measure at no extra charge.
A friend ordered his ribless, no engraving, stock to his dimensions, for woodcock. It is superbly balanced.
Dang. Those are some impressive o/u's for the quoted prices (current lb-to-dollar is 1.23). Tempting...
JR
John, they start the price in Euros with the pound price being plus 20% Value Added Tax so even cheaper to you.
I fancy the 12 bore C35 model for what I want. I understand they can also be obtained with straight hand stock and double triggers. Not yet handled one so will have to go look. There are three dealers with them around the 50 to 80 mile radius from me (not small distances in the U.K. with the traffic) so time to get ringing round to see what they have and see if prices are better for cash. Looked at the illustrations of the 28 bore side by side and they are very tempting too. Thanks. Lagopus.....
Dang. Those are some impressive o/u's for the quoted prices (current lb-to-dollar is 1.23). Tempting...
JR
There you go John, a world class gun with world class balance for not much money.
Here is the one CB is talking about. Nice...but for $24,000 cdn??? I could buy a couple AYA #2's for that cash and still have some left for a SD phez hunt.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/sh...ghlight=Chapuis
John, they start the price in Euros with the pound price being plus 20% Value Added Tax so even cheaper to you.
Translate that, Lagopus.
JR
Yup, nice gun but not how I would spend 24K on guns. BTW, was taking a stab at the pricing. Couldn't remember exactly and didn't want to scroll through pages looking. Even with exchange it's still a lot of US dollars.
Sorry John. What I mean is that the price in pounds quoted will be a bit on the high side. Being French made they will sell in Euros. At the moment the exchange rate of the Euro to the pound is not in as much favour for us as it should be so we will pay a bit more. Then added to the price in the U.K. is the best part of 17 1/2% Value Added Tax. Which means that the price quoted will be about 25% more than you could get it for in France and imported to the U.S. Lagopus.....
To some that may be a bargain for what you are getting and there are a whole lot more expensive guns being built in France.
I know this is all second hand information, and the original owner who ordered the gun probably thought he had good reasons for wanting a 28 gauge shotgun built on a double rifle action, but when you consider what he could have bought one of their standard 28 gauges for, and how much he would have to shoot a 28 gauge enough to shoot it loose ........did that decision really make sense? For goodness sakes, how many people will live long enough to shoot a 28 that much?
My philosophy in a situation like this would be to buy a gun, shoot it until it's "shot", and buy another. One thing is for sure, it's a "one off". Most times you take a bath when you go to unload something like this and try to get anywhere near what you put in it.
SRH
I've never heard of a Chapuis being shot out, they are built very well and are very strong. The used gun prices are not good, but that is because everyone worships the Blue Book and prices their guns accordingly. Used Chapuis shotguns rarely hit the market, but if you want a good gun that's a keeper go Chapuis.
I question how many of us have enough time left to wear out guns with even a single under bite.
I haven't "worn any out" in my life. Broken a few parts, that is for sure, but, most anything could be fixed.
Double rifles, and the costs associated with same, leave me scratching my head, for the very most part. I freely admit I'm not an Africa bound big game hunter, but, it seems to me if I were, the accuracy, reliability, cost effectiveness, and simplicity of a bolt gun would make a lot more sense.
Granted, "minute of orange" is enough accuracy for most tasks one would pursue with a double rifle. But, wouldn't the standard of minute of angle be more comforting for animals that might succesfully atempt to kill you during the pursuit?
Best,
Ted
A Lefever Arms Co has a single top wedge bolt in a square shouldered doll's head. A Parker Bros V & up has a single under bolt & a square shouldered doll's head, the trojan lacks the doll's head. A Win 21 has a single under bolt A L C Smith, Ithaca NID & A H.Fox have a single top Rotary bolt. Bakers normally have a single top wedge bolt in a straight rib extension. The Ithaca Flues has an under bolt plus a top bolt & it's not as strong as any of the above.
Note also the doll's head of the Lefever & Parker does nothing to hold the barrels shu, the single bolt does that.
All the BallyHoo over multiple bolting is almost always directed toward keeping the barrels bolted down so0 they don't revolve open, this is NOT the major stress point in handling the load being fired.
"ONE" good solid bolt will hold any gun shut.
If you smoke test the fit on most any except perhaps the Very, Very High Priced ones (I don't have any in that class to test) you will generally find that regardless of how many bolts the gun has, generally one is doing all the work.
Those animals are in a different world then what we have ever seen and I go with the experts who like the double rifles. It just amazes me how much punishment those African animals can take. Chapuis makes a lot of them.
Used Chapuis shotguns rarely hit the market, but if you want a good gun that's a keeper go Chapuis.
That's because almost nobody in USA buys French-made O/U shotguns. That market belongs to Italians and B.C. Miroku-made Brownings (in Europe one can get MK series Mirokus). Quite honestly the only newly French-made guns I would consider are rifles from Dorelac & Dorelac. They do however make fine wine, brandy, chocolates, clothing and cosmetics. Their cheeses are wonderful much better than what we make in Wisconsin.
PS. One does seem to see lot of second hand Chapuis single-shot and SxS rifles. I heard they're world biggest maker of SxS rifles. That along with fact that there are very few new reasonably priced choices it would make sense that people buy them and when no longer needed sell them.
Those animals are in a different world then what we have ever seen and I go with the experts who like the double rifles. It just amazes me how much punishment those African animals can take. Chapuis makes a lot of them.
A lot of PHs use controlled feed bolt guns. I doubt the animal knows if the .416 slug that just crashed into it was fired from a square bridge Mauser or a double rifle. But, I'd be willing to bet the Mauser would be more accurate at 100 yards.
Best,
Ted
Advantage of the d. rifle on dangerous game, I would think, as I have never hunted any dangerous game other than big wild hogs, is an immediate second shot. I'd rather carry a d. rifle all day, than a bolt gun, but few professionals or hunters carry their gun all day anyway.
Advantages of a bolt gun are much lower price, added capacity and accuracy. If I ever got to the Dark Continent I would most likely, out of necessity, be carrying a bolt gun. Although, I will admit to having spent a considerable amount of time loading the .45-70 round to it's extremes in a Ruger #1, with 500 grain bullets. It can be safely loaded to within 300 fps, or a little less, of what the .458 Winchester Magnum does with factory ammo. Shooting them out of a Ruger #1 on the bench is not for the fainthearted, but is rather fun offhand. You just let yourself rock back with the recoil. One can also get very quick at reloading a #1 by holding extra rounds between the fingers, as it ejects the empties quite well. Big double rifles can be fascinating pieces of handiwork, tho'.
SRH
Advantage of the d. rifle on dangerous game, I would think, as I have never hunted any dangerous game other than big wild hogs, is an immediate second shot. I'd rather carry a d. rifle all day, than a bolt gun, but few professionals or hunters carry their gun all day anyway.
Advantages of a bolt gun are much lower price, added capacity and accuracy. If I ever got to the Dark Continent I would most likely, out of necessity, be carrying a bolt gun. Although, I will admit to having spent a considerable amount of time loading the .45-70 round to it's extremes in a Ruger #1, with 500 grain bullets. It can be safely loaded to within 300 fps, or a little less, of what the .458 Winchester Magnum does with factory ammo. Shooting them out of a Ruger #1 on the bench is not for the fainthearted, but is rather fun offhand. You just let yourself rock back with the recoil. One can also get very quick at reloading a #1 by holding extra rounds between the fingers, as it ejects the empties quite well. Big double rifles can be fascinating pieces of handiwork, tho'.
SRH
What you need is Artemida .45-70. It is good handling gun in that particular caliber. Put nice new recoil pad on it and you will be ready to go. Great value for <$1000. If you don't like it there will be plenty of takers not so for stuff costing thousands of dollars especially when Hecho en France. I realize w/o the French we would not have a county, but many hombres don't seem to appreciate or realize this. If I see another MP-221 .45-70 locally I will probably buy it. It goes very, very well with Wrangler's, rubber galoshes, camo jacket,.....
The expensive double rifles are true money pit. If you buy one next thing you will want them expensive leather cartridge wallets, hunting knife for several hundred (when Buck Woodsman Hecho en Los Estados Unidos available at Walmart is all one needs) fancy smancy Selous boots from England along with safari jacket and hat costing hundreds of dollars. It ain't worth it.
Yep, I'll just go to Walmart to outfit for my trip to Africa. That should do it. Awful silly idea, isn't it?
I've read also that the PH insists that the scope flips down so the client can use the open iron sights on his bolt action in deep brush. That tells you something right there. Deep brush, a possible wounded animal, they want that quick second shot on a double.
I've read also that they like that Chapuis over there.
Yep, I'll just go to Walmart to outfit for my trip to Africa. That should do it. Awful silly idea, isn't it?
I've read also that the PH insists that the scope flips down so the client can use the open iron sights on his bolt action in deep brush. That tells you something right there. Deep brush, a possible wounded animal, they want that quick second shot on a double.
I've read also that they like that Chapuis over there.
Well in defensive situation angry jumbo has to come w/o 10 paces or less before it can be shot and that is where heavy caliber two single shot rifles in one really helps. I hate to say so but modern American bolt actioned rifle is basically single shot firearm with spare magazine box. I have old Winchester so I can tell you that. For love of God I do not understand why American companies keep making those antiquated actions instead of going to strait pull designs like many European makers offer. I mean the bolt locks into barrel extension and accuracy is on par with lift up pull back push forward push down designs. Good folks at 24 hour campfire told me locals now only buy real cheap stuff like Savage Axis or Ruger American. Those European type designs with rotating multi log designs would be more expensive to make.
The bolt action is good for everything and its accuracy is unequaled. For the vast majority of game and on continents to hunt game the bolt action rules. As it should.
The key point being missed here in the discussion of style prefs., DR vs. bolt is that of having the gun stocked so that it naturally shoots where one is looking. You want the FIRST shot to find home. Talk of quick second shots w/big bore rifles of any kind is not quick.. due to recoil, but it is likely quicker in a DR than most bolt rifles.. unless one is using a Blaser or Kreighoff or one of the more modern bolt guns of that very fast feeding nature.
Its one of the big difs. w/American custom rifle stock makers, their instinctive mastering of classic lines w/shootable [meaning handles like a well made shotgun] dimensions vs. the average store bought bolt action that requires some funky and useless scope/rings/mount and will most likely never be shot well off-hand or w/the iron sights provided, but works well enough when shot from a blind or off a rest of some nature.
The factor of being able to be brought into play quickly & shot instinctively and accurately and having a second shot, when necessary, is whot brought the DR its favored status, IMHO.
Think about it, a SxS shotgun w/double triggers & hammers was/is nothing more than two independent shotguns sharing a common butt stock & forearm. Safety, as such, when applied to a DR is solely from that same redundancy.
Hey, the thread was already adrift, so thot I'd add my two cents en passant;-) I've no pachyderms in this ring.
What you need is Artemida .45-70.
Since you quoted me I am assuming you mean
I need the Artemida, which I do not. Not for hogs. Not for me. It is a non-ejector gun, and while hogs do not have the aura of other dangerous game I can assure you that the situation can turn nasty in the blink of an eye, and digging cases out of an extractor gun is not something I want to be doing when I have enraged a 400# hog with 3" long cutters bearing down on me. I already bought what I need, and it is highly specialized. We do not hunt hogs for sport ........ we hunt hogs to eliminate as many of them as possible, without getting ourselves a fast ride to the ER to get sewed up. We use AR15s in 300 Blackout, with either a IR Defense Hunter or a ATN Thor thermal scope atop it. We ride the fields at night in a rig that has a remote controlled thermal camera on the roof and a monitor on the dashboard and look for hogs. When we find some that we can approach with the wind right, we park the rig, slip close enough on foot to surgically place the 110 gr. hollow point behind the ear, and kill as many of the group as we can.
A good friend of mine shot a hog with a .243 several years ago, one afternoon. The hog ran into a big briar patch. He chambered another round and approached the place the hog went into. In a flash the hog charged out of the briars, Doc fired and missed. The hog knocked him down. The hog got on him and proceeded to slice him up with his tusks as Doc lay on his back trying to protect his face and neck with his arms. The hog backed off a couple of feet and stood there popping his tusks in rage. Doc slowly got his rifle, worked the bolt, pointed the muzzle at it while holding the barrel with his left hand, and pulled the trigger with his thumb, killing the hog. Only then did he see the arterial spurting of blood from his arm. He got to the truck and rode half hour to the ER, barely making it before succumbing to blood loss.
No extractor hog guns for me, thank you.
http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009-07-08/front_page/002.html SRH
The .45-70 MP-221 is good handling 7 pounder for not a lot of money. I have one centerfire Winchester 70, but as I said for all practical purposes it is single shot rifle with magazine box serving as cartridge wallet. With the SxS rifle I have two shot rifle which is wonderful when shooting at game at close range in the brush. When I find one I will buy it and I may even mount one of them fancy Swedish dot sights on it. They are very small and battery last very, very long time even if one forgets to turn it off. Extractors are not hinderance because for all practical purposes one only has two shots anyway. I laugh when I see pic guys holding two cartridges between their fingers when shooting double rifles. Do they think they will have enough time to reload when being charged by dangerous animal at close range? I have no problem with concept of meeting Jesus little sooner than my age would suggest. They should also do the same.
I would say the wild boar or wild pig is probably the most dangerous animal hunter on US soil is likely to meet. Close second would mama moose followed closely by North Amercan brown bear.