I see no double gun class this year (2017) in the Trinidad course listings. Does anyone know if it is permanently dropped?
Thanks, Jeremy

i heard that it has been dropped.the school looking for classes that attract younger students.

So a Double Rifle course is more youngster oriented? Or are they looking for a class that covers the double gun app?
I'm waiting for a reply from the source. I hope it doesn't confirm your news. Thanks for the reply though.
Jeremy

I taught the double gun class at Trinidad State Junior College for 14 years, taking over for Leonard Bull, when he retired.

The class was either one week, or you could take the entire two weeks.
The class was not a "structured" class; but rather geared towards the guns the students brought, and issues they had. A short list would be barrel bore, choke, wall thickness measuring, dent removal and honing to remove pits, mars. We did both partial and complete strip and relay soldering of ribs and barrels. We covered rebuilding actions, correcting poor fit on the face, due to either bolt wear or hinge pin issues. We had an introduction to spring making and heat treating, general parts manufacturing, and polishing barrels and rust bluing. We did cover some stock work, but not stockmaking per se, as there was a class covering that. Students had to bring their own guns to work on, the school did not provide guns that needed work.

The class was limited to 10 students per week, and some of the students returned multiple years, and some were new students.

Well the administration advised me earlier this fall they had polled their students and the students wanted "something different", or something like that, so the school was going to shake things up, and at best, the double gun class (along with the Single Shot Rifle Metalsmithing class taught by Glenn Fewless) would not be offered this coming year (2017), but they MAY offer the classes the following year.

That is the story as far as I have been informed by the College.
The 2017 class schedule is available online under TSJC/NRA summer classes, sorry, I don't have a link

yes bartlet it is is when the students were polled and opted for something different. i hope that the school brings both dennis and glenns class back.

Dennis - I took your course a few years back and it was incredibly useful. I was not able to come again for a couple of years due to family schedules but had planned on this summer.

Who do we lobby to ensure that you are asked to teach it again in 2018?

Dennis
Thank you for the direct reply from the source on this.
Needless to say I'm extremely disappointed that the class has been culled from the offering.
I must be an old codger now - in my day students weren't asked what they wanted to learn... ignorant buggers
I shall certainly add my voice, in a more civilized tone, in communication to the management expressing an interest in the course in hopes they see the profound ignorance of their ways.
Thanks
Jeremy

I should add that also not offered this year is Mark Beasland's Damascus Finishing Class.

Whoopee more classes on how to fix, craft or re-finish black guns.

Ky jon, exactly

I am deeply saddened that Dennis's double gun class will not be offered this year. I've taken the class five times and can not begin to state how much I've learned and how much it has influenced my life. The information and help Dennis so freely shared could not have been obtained any where else at any cost. I feel saddened others will no longer have this unique resource available to them.

The only thing positive is it gives me a chance to publicly thank Dennis for his generosity to provide his service over the last 14 years. I don't think people realize the sacrifices Dennis has made to provide this service. It started with moving his shop hand tools and supplies into his truck and then driving 20 some hours to Trinidad Colorado. He then got to live in a college dorm or stay in a motel for two weeks, deal with up to 20 students needs, then drive 20 plus hours back home. I know the school paid for his services but I can promise you he would have been financially much better to have stayed at home in his own bed, worked in his own shop, and not had to put up with all the hassle of loading and unloading all those tools and materials he didn't get paid for. So the next time one of your "babies" need some repair attention, please say Thank You Dennis as there is a good chance Dennis had some impact on helping educate the person who you trusted to properly service your fine gun.

Dennis, Thank You from the bottom of my heart for all the time you have donated in helping me and so many others over the years. No one could ever repay you for the service you have done. All the best, Don Hansen.

Dennis, that's a real shame. I'm guessing they didn't ask YOUR students what THEY wanted.

Another case of the inmates running the institution.

I am another that is grateful that I got a chance to take both Mark and Dennis' classes. I started with Mark's 2 years ago and I took Dennis' class this past year. I am very saddened by the turn of events because I was planning on continuing to take the courses this summer and now I'm stuck.

I do not remember taking a survey and if I did, my voice must have been in the minority. I will be contacting TSJC to voice my concern over the course changes.

Thanks Dennis and Mark.

Jason

I have never taken the course but was planning to next year as it is, or it seems was, one of the only (the only?) place to acquire this knowledge in the entire country. I think it's a great shame that courses such as this go by the wayside. What seems particularly odd to me is that it appears to have had routine, appreciative and complete attendance. Personally I think that anyone with an interest in the course should be contacting the powers that be and expressing their dismay at the disappearance of such courses. What is next I wonder... letting plumbers out of apprenticeships with only a knowledge of ABS piping and no soldering skills because thats what they want to learn?

Does anyone know of another location or means of attending such a course?

Jeremy

Isn't this a NRA Gunsmithing School course? Montgomery Community College in NC has a NRA Gunsmithing School program. We should contact Montgomery Community College and tell them Dennis Potter, Glenn Fewless, and Mark Beasland are available. I believe we could influence a positive outcome if this was addressed properly.

Perhaps better to ask Dennis, Glenn and Mark first!

There is also a gunsmithing school that gives NRA summer courses at Lassen Community College in Susanville, NE California. Nearest major airport is Reno, 85 miles to the south.

But TSJC is offering a class in hat making. Go Figure. This is nuts.

Dennis's class is fantastic. I have been part of it for four years, starting in '06. I cannot imagine they would drop it. Gil

at the end of classes at Trinidad a evaluation was given to students.i was in len bull and dennis class for a while and don't remember any negatives from other students.so i think this is the school and the nra wanting more classes for ar15 and black guns.tishamingo had a sxs class but sadly jack rowe was the instructor and has passed away.i don't know what the status of that class is.call the nra summer class coordinator and complain if you are interested in classes continuing.

I can't begin to express how much Dennis and this class has meant to my success . The only person that has been in Dennis's class more than me is Dennis. Dennis's willingness to share his life time of knowledge is priceless. While I have not attended Glenn's class having his expertise available has been very valuable as well. I consider both mentors and friends. I was saddened to hear about the schools decision . This is truly a lose to the double gun world.

Having taken course work at Susanville I'd love if there were such a double gun course and browning (barrels ... not guns) course there. Sadly there is not and I suspect there's very little prospect of such given that they have difficulty even filling their engraving courses. For what it's worth I've suggested such to their overlords (overladies) but I doubt that will make any impact. Why is it so hard to get good things added but so easy to get them removed? I suppose the lowest common denominator is a powerful divider

Jeremy

I saw that and was "amused". Nothing against hats... I wear them and like a good hat. But in a gunsmithing program?? Really?
Maybe someone confused milner and milling. And don't the young wear hoodies not hats anyway ?

Jeremy

Gentlemen:

To throw my $.02 in, I do not know just what drove the decision to cancel Dennis' class. It did not really surprise me that my class was cancelled, as it was always on the edge of minimum attendance. However, it seemed that double gun class was well attended.

One must assume that the decision was made for what was believed to be the best for the program. I do know that all the students are queried regarding their thoughts on the classes offered and about what other classes they would like to see offered. This is part of the class evaluation forms each student is given.

Whether we are indeed invited back in 2018 as we were told they intend to do remains to be seen. Again, the ball is in their court and they will make the decision based on what they think best.

There are a lot of interesting courses taught at the school, and I would like to take most of them. I am not at all surprised by offerings such as a hat making course. Many of the courses are "fringe" courses with a very narrow appeal. That is what makes the courses offered so attractive. Both the double gun and the single shot courses fit that description. It may be that the school feels it can better serve its customers by having the more diverse offerings made possible by an every other year rotation.

In any event, there appears to be other options for the courses. Dennis and I have been asked to hold our courses at another school in 2018, and there seems to be at least a possibility that the courses will be held somewhere else this year.

The bottom line is the actual attendance at the classes. If people don't show up, the classes will not exist. It is very difficult for most people to come up with the time required to take the courses. The inconvenience of gainful employment and a desire to spend the limited free time one has with family are the greatest factors. I reckon the bottom line is that if you see a course that you wish to take, you may have to take it when you can because it might not be available in the future.

Respectfully,

Glenn Fewless

To throw my $.02 in after Glen's, I have to express my gratitude to Dennis, Glen and Mark for sharing their knowledge. I have attended Trinidad multiple times, learned a lot and had a lot of fun while there. I was extremely disappointed to learn that their classes were not scheduled this year. There is now a large hole in my summer plans that I hope can be filled by some other educational opportunity. I will anxiously wait for an announcement about classes scheduled at some other location. It is Trinidad's loss.

Gary Erickson

What a shame these classes have been cancelled. I'm one who falls into the type of person Glenn referred too. I can retire later this year & have been waiting until I retire to take the classes offered at Trinidad. I hope they will be offered somewhere in 2018 when I finally have the time to attend.

Well, as I said I would I wrote to the Course Coordinator at Trinidad regarding the course disappearance. I received an e-mail response this morning.

Here it is in untrimmed form so all the information is out there.
There is some explanation as to what is actually going on with the impact of student surveys and "the inmates running the asylum" .
Dennis and Glenn, I guess you can expect to hear from Trinidad in the near future; remember you heard it hear first

The good news is the courses should return next year, if the instructors are willing.

Jeremy

"Good Afternoon Dr. Bartlett,
I received your letter today concerning the Double Guns course not being included in the 2017 summer schedule. Our plan is to offer the Double Guns and Metalsmithing Single Shot Rifle classes every other year. I plan to ask Dennis Potter and Glenn Fewless to teach their courses again next summer and it is my hope they will agree to do so.
Following each class in the summer, we ask students to complete a satisfaction survey, which includes suggestions for new classes and ways to improve the program. These comments are taken seriously as we develop the schedule for the next summer. We have received requests that outnumber the space we have available, which has led to the decision to offer some of the courses on an every-other-year basis.
You may not be aware, but Trinidad State offers some small certificates in the summer, which requires that we offer the classes in those certificates each year so that students can either earn one of the certificates in one summer or take one or two of the required courses each year until they have earned the certificate.
I hope this email has answered your questions. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
Donna

Donna Haddow
Continuing Education Coordinator"

This is a sad trend in the gunsmithing trade that has been going on for sometime. When I attended Trinidad as a full time student 15 years ago there was very little interest in traditional skills. Most students did not want to learn how to stock a rifle from a blank, build a spring from scratch or learn how to rust blue.

Spray painting guns guilt from a catalog was extremely popular though.

The world is changing and we are the dinosaurs unfortunately. I talked to the owner of the gun store I worked at in the past recently. He always stocked a nice selection of classic guns, double, Model 12 pumps etc. The other day he told me he no longer buys them or takes them on trade. He said he sells lots of shotguns but none of the classics. They just sit on the shelf while synthetic stocked 3" mag semi-autos with screw in chokes fly out the door.

Dennis puts on a great class and his approach to solving a problem is second to none. I hope he returns next year and is able to pass on some more of his vast amount of knowledge.

Well I'll definitely be keeping my eye on the 2018 schedule with an aim to getting a place as soon as possible in both courses if possible.

As to doubles being dinosaurs that's certainly the case. The best "Sporting Goods" store in my area closed a few years ago which is a real shame as they carried a wide range of hunting and fishing equipment, ammunition, books and used items and I tried to do all my related shopping there including gun transfers even if it was a bit out of the way. Only the chain stores like Big 5 exist anymore. I mail order ammunition now.

Jeremy

Well I received an email from Trinidad yesterday with the summer course offerings and I'm very disappointed. No double gun course, no damascus browning, frankly very little of interest. I keep thinking maybe I'm missing something but I don't think so.
Jeremy

Stay tuned, more info when all is finalized.