There are reports that Gander Mountain may soon file for bankruptcy.
Gander, known as one of America’s firearms superstores, operates 160 stores in 27 states, including several that opened in 2016 in Pennsylvania, Colorado and Texas. More than 50 stores opened in the last five years.
Their store in St. Louis never seems crowded, and has to also compete with a local Cabela's and Bass Pro. An O.K. store, with nice people, but few bargains.
gold40
Ditto the Blaine, MN store. The last time I was there, I had a choice of two 28 gauge Fiocchi loads, a 7 1/2 fast hunting load, and a 8 load for clays, I guess, not as hot. I was looking for a flat.
There were between 3 and 6 boxes of each, no flats. I bought a couple boxes.
The store was empty.
Best,
Ted
My local Gander Mountain store has a wall and a half devoted to guns; about four feet of that space is "used" sxs guns. The salesmen it seems are not permitted to negotiate price. They seem to be at the high end of everything they sell in comparison to Academy Sports just down the street. Guess which one gets my business...Geo
Not surprising in the least. The local GM gun staff is a bunch of aloof jerks with zero time to answer questions, totally uninformed about product, and recoil at the offer to a better deal than marked. Own worst enemy with obvious poor upper mgt.
JR
The nearest one to me is about 50 miles away, I was in there several years ago. I was amazed at how shoddy the place was compared to a Cabela's. No one around to help, looked like garage sale, I thought it was closing then.
I recently needed a set of plain standard 1" scope rings for a friend's rifle. Gander had them at $19.95, Cabela's at $10.95, and Walmart for $ 8.95. Not a major purchase, but the price gaps were a surprise.
Locally, Cabela's and Walmart usually have lowest prices on shotshells.
More than 50 stores opened in the last five years.
gold40
That would be the problem right there.
Spread too thin too fast.
O.M
It is beyond me how the corporate model ever works. It ends up eating itself up given enough time.
To my knowledge, guns sold by Gander in their stores are based on a cost plus a percentage adder. Period. It has nothing to do with the actual market on used guns. If a gun is overpriced, it simply means they paid too much for it. And visa versa.
The days of big brick and mortar stores are fast ending. Everyone just go back to their local gun shop.
Gander just closed one of the two stores here in the Denver area. They advertised the close-out for months with big discounts. I stopped in a couple of times and never found anything marked down. Didn't buy a thing and walked out.
I have two within 90 minutes of me. As several others have stated they are dark, dingy, very few used guns and a lack of knowledgeable staff. The Toledo, OH store had a Fox Sterlingworth 12 Ga. ejector gun that was just a shooter, I mean a shooter and they had it priced over $2K and held firm. Sad to see them go under but the strong survive in any business/industry! To much competition by good local shops and Cabela's and BPS to be marginal.
I had to write a letter and tell them what one of their side by sides was worth to get them down on the price. It worked. Our small t3 store has more customers in it than them. I shop usually from cabelas
A shame as they were the first place I purchased from when I started hunting, everything from the catalog.
I won't miss them if they go under. I wouldn't miss Bass Pro much, either. Cabela's I'd probably miss a little, and it concerns me that BPS owns them, now.I do most of my mail order shopping with Mack's Prairie Wings and my in store with Academy. Both of them are super to do business with, and both have good prices.
The one I miss is the old Herter's. Man, I loved that huge catalog when I was a kid. I have a pair of Herter's neoprene chest waders (from the later, downsized company) that I handed down to my grandson, Jackson, that have to be 25 years old. But, missing the old Herter's is probably more nostalgia than substance.
SRH
When Herters downsized they had a store/decoy factory in Beaver Dam Wisconsin...just a few miles from the Horicon marsh....I shopped their quite a bit....still have a dozen of their burlap wrapped mallard dekes NIB....They had some great outside tent sales in the late spring each year and again in the late summer.....they had duck calling contests, food, more like a big hunters pic-nic....have a couple Ganders within 6/7 miles...and a Cabela's around 12 miles.....but they sort of leave me cold....
Our Gander has some good people working in the firearms dept. They really do try hard. There hands are tied though. Corporate forces them to stock and display things that don't sell in our area, and limits things that do. I guess they want all stores to be the same.
They do take a beating sometimes. Local bottom feeders tend to unload there bad guns there. They wait until the less experienced guys are working then outright lie about what they are selling. Gander ends up with a high priced bad gun.
Doesn't surprise me, their prices are typically ridiculous. I do hate to see any outdoor store have troubles though.
Mary and I visited the store in Chesterfield, Missouri a while back. We were nearly alone in the store. We looked over the guns and related items for an half an hour before anyone showed up in that area. Then they didn't make any effort to ask if I was interested in seeing anything. We walked out without buying anything.
I've been in Gander Mountain near Minneapolis and didn't have a problem. In fact I bought a Stoeger coach gun I wasn't even looking for because the wood was extra nice and the price was right.
35yrs ago when they only had a catalog and warehouse with a service counter in Wilmont,WI they had the best prices on reloading components. We would drive up from south of Chicago to load up. Then they sold the catalog business to Cabelas and opened stores with the highest component prices. 15 years ago when their was not one or two in every town I bought most of my clothes at the store in Wausau,WI and they had a good used gun department with a few racks of shooter doubles and an occasional nice gun. Then about the time they layed off most of the full time help they opened stores all over the the place and switched the shirts to plaid polos. Now minimal used guns, nothing I won't to buy and the employees out number the customers.
I almost never go to chain sporting goods stores. Although I was strongly tempted to buy Ithaca HogSlayer (Academy Sports exclusive) I never bought a firearm at one. The only time I bought anything from one was several boxes of Kent Bismuth which were on sale at Cabela's. That was only because LGS didn't have any to sell at all. Quite honestly I would be ok if all chain sporting goods stores went bankrupt. My new years resolution was not to shop at Walmart. I am blessed to be able to afford to shop elsewhere. Now I do my shopping at Whole Foods Market and Fresh Food Market.
You aren't going to find any double guns at Whole Foods or the Fresh Food Market Jagermeister. And old hypocrite is sure to get mad at you for going off-topic and discussing your grocery shopping.
I sincerely doubt if Gander Mountain would have done any better if you had been there... tire kicking and drooling on their counter tops... putting guns on layaway, and then backing out of the deal...
You still haven't answered the question I have asked you, oh, about 100 times now... Why do you post here when you don't even own any double guns?
I bought one antique Lefever G Grade that Gander Mountain had listed on Gunbroker. They shipped it to a store about 20 miles from me which saved me the shipping charge. But they insisted on doing an FFL transfer even though it was clearly a pre-1899 Antique gun with the two hook cocking system and sideplate mounted sears. Very smooth transaction other than the totally unnecessary paper work and NICS background check. I wish Gander Mountain was the only place that had gun salesmen who didn't know much about the product, or know the law pertaining to Antiques.
You aren't going to find any double guns at Whole Foods or the Fresh Food Market Jagermeister. And old hypocrite is sure to get mad at you for going off-topic and discussing your grocery shopping.
I sincerely doubt if Gander Mountain would have done any better if you had been there... tire kicking and drooling on their counter tops... putting guns on layaway, and then backing out of the deal...
You still haven't answered the question I have asked you, oh, about 100 times now... Why do you post here when you don't even own any double guns?
I bought one antique Lefever G Grade that Gander Mountain had listed on Gunbroker. They shipped it to a store about 20 miles from me which saved me the shipping charge. But they insisted on doing an FFL transfer even though it was clearly a pre-1899 Antique gun with the two hook cocking system and sideplate mounted sears. Very smooth transaction other than the totally unnecessary paper work and NICS background check. I wish Gander Mountain was the only place that had gun salesmen who didn't know much about the product, or know the law pertaining to Antiques.
Them chain sporting goods stores aren't worth going to. For example, Gander Mountain clothing department consists of green or camo stuff and Cabela's is pretty much all camo Hecho en China. While Bass Pro has some far, far better selection I can buy better quality clothing for less or same at local SteinMart. Here you go, no reason for me to go to them at all. If all went under I would be just fine. By the way I found gun I have been waiting for better part of three years in used gun rack at LGS. Now it is mine, all mine.
I thought Gander regularly either declared bankruptcy or found a white knight to bail them out. I don't think this is their first rodeo. I could be wrong. Maybe it's just always looking for a bail out from a white knight. Their store here is nice and seems to do a decent business. They came here as the anchor retailer of a downtown river-front shopping area. Bass Pro was a possible anchor, but they wanted too much from the city to build there. Gander came in and virtually nothing else has happened with the area. Cabala's built on the northeast side of town and the retail area around their store has just exploded. I wish Sportsman's Warehouse was still open here. I really liked the store.
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife.
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife.
.......The shoes sold here for $30 cost about $2 to $3 per pair.....oh, about half a dozen years ago top factory manufacturing job in China paid about $400 per month.
Years ago I worked as a profuct designer in a major company. Across town a machine shop made an industrial strength door handles - about 150/day. There were many machine steps, bending, welding of three parts to make an assembly. Price was $7.50 ea.
We received raw part and tumble cleaned them, cadmium plated, primed and painted them.
Chinese got with purchasing and bid making the handle. They forged the basic part thus eliminated several machine and bending. The forging included the feature that were previously separate parts. The part that was welded on was welded by resistance welding that produced a neat appearance and prevented corrosion from forming under the part. They cleaned, plated, primed, and painted the part. Delivered for 75 cents ea.
GM won't change a wrong description of a shotgun, nor the ridiculous tag price. Case in point: GM in Kentwood, MI (Grand Rapids) has had a Hollenbeck 12 bore with Krupp Flustahl barrels- 32" F&F, 2& 5/8" chambers- ejectors that are non-working and DT- listed as a "LeFever CE grade" and are asking $3750.00-- I have pointed out that error to the Gun Dept Manager 3 times, and I am tired of wasting my time- they will probably own that Fubared purchase until the Chapter 11 lads come in a close out the store.
I go by a brand new Gander Mountain Mountain twice a day. The store is new within a couple of years. Very nice and cleaned and well stock. Discounted signs all over. Nothing on guns.
Have only ever purchased two items ever.
They will either fold, reorganize, or n investment firms buys them out.
John Boyd
Quality Arms
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife.
It's those evil big companies and that evil China.
And Cabela's is printing money as profits, right? Oh, they aren't?
These kinds of generalizations about mark up on foreign made goods reek of lack of specific knowledge of the subject and result in wild misinformation becoming received truth. I'm including your idiotic comment too Jaegermeister.
The fault lies not with the brand, or the retailer. The fault lies with the consumer and the choices he/she makes every day in the marketplace. I say this as a result of a 35 year career in consumer products, specifically footwear, clothing and sporting goods hardware, during the time frame when offshore production became a thing.
Bibbyman, consider this....if the name Winchester is worth more than the actual product, whose fault is that? Walmart isn't stupid, neither is the company who licensed the Winchester name to use on knives or the company with the Winchester name rights. They all know the value it carries in the marketplace, where consumers spend the money on a well known branded product rather than the superior item with a name not recognized.
And your example of boots is just flat out wrong. In a very simplistic way, and anyone with manufacturing experience will understand this, there is the unit cost of production, there is the capital costs associated with design and development, there are the capital costs associated with creating molds and production lines and these have to be amortized over the life of the product, something that gets shorter all the time, thanks to the short attention span of consumers, then there is transportation, centralized or regional distribution, packaging, the costs associated with maintaining an inventory and end of run mark down costs. And all that is before it gets to the retailer.
Your $200 boots....they cost the retailer around $100 to get onto his shelves....the cheapest might be $90 and the most expensive might be $110. Average Gross Profit for large national retailers are going to be in the 40-45% range. If a hard goods only kind of place, think 35%. If a small specialty retailer, they need around 50% to make a profit. At a mark down to $150, the retailer is likely taking a loss on the product, when rent, staff and other overheads are taken into account. And the supply chain, they may not be taking the hit of 25% off the retailer is on that pair. But it sure affects the choices the retailer will make next time he places a stocking order. And so, the supply chain has to figure out all the way back to the design studio, how to tweak or completely overhaul that product so it sells at the price the retailer needs to get to stay in business.
You guys down there are all gung ho about bringing manufacturing back to America. And I'm all for level playing fields. But the downside is you are going to be in for sticker shock if you get your way. The relentless drive to manufacture off shore has been, at it's heart, a drive to keep prices down for consumers, because that's what they want.
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife.
It's those evil big companies and that evil China.
And Cabela's is printing money as profits, right? Oh, they aren't?
These kinds of generalizations about mark up on foreign made goods reek of lack of specific knowledge of the subject and result in wild misinformation becoming received truth. I'm including your idiotic comment too Jaegermeister.
The fault lies not with the brand, or the retailer. The fault lies with the consumer and the choices he/she makes every day in the marketplace. I say this as a result of a 35 year career in consumer products, specifically footwear, clothing and sporting goods hardware, during the time frame when offshore production became a thing.
Bibbyman, consider this....if the name Winchester is worth more than the actual product, whose fault is that? Walmart isn't stupid, neither is the company who licensed the Winchester name to use on knives or the company with the Winchester name rights. They all know the value it carries in the marketplace, where consumers spend the money on a well known branded product rather than the superior item with a name not recognized.
And your example of boots is just flat out wrong. In a very simplistic way, and anyone with manufacturing experience will understand this, there is the unit cost of production, there is the capital costs associated with design and development, there are the capital costs associated with creating molds and production lines and these have to be amortized over the life of the product, something that gets shorter all the time, thanks to the short attention span of consumers, then there is transportation, centralized or regional distribution, packaging, the costs associated with maintaining an inventory and end of run mark down costs. And all that is before it gets to the retailer.
Your $200 boots....they cost the retailer around $100 to get onto his shelves....the cheapest might be $90 and the most expensive might be $110. Average Gross Profit for large national retailers are going to be in the 40-45% range. If a hard goods only kind of place, think 35%. If a small specialty retailer, they need around 50% to make a profit. At a mark down to $150, the retailer is likely taking a loss on the product, when rent, staff and other overheads are taken into account. And the supply chain, they may not be taking the hit of 25% off the retailer is on that pair. But it sure affects the choices the retailer will make next time he places a stocking order. And so, the supply chain has to figure out all the way back to the design studio, how to tweak or completely overhaul that product so it sells at the price the retailer needs to get to stay in business.
You guys down there are all gung ho about bringing manufacturing back to America. And I'm all for level playing fields. But the downside is you are going to be in for sticker shock if you get your way. The relentless drive to manufacture off shore has been, at it's heart, a drive to keep prices down for consumers, because that's what they want.
Me head hurts now. Please stop confusing me with facts. We want quality of life, prosperity, services and quality products Hecho en Los Estados Unidos while paying low taxes and low prices for products we get. Comprende usted?
From the Land of Shangri-la, bless your heart.
James,
I agree with your post. One related point you left out is wage stagnation. Americans were much less concerned with the cost of products when our incomes were increasing faster than the pace of inflation. Wages have barely ticked up in the last 15 plus years while inflation continues to climb. It comes down to math. When you have less to spend you have to get the most out of what you have.
Steve
Si, amigo- Ya Lo Crelo. En las palabras de Sr. Don Ernesto, en la libra- Verdad a el primo luz (Africa) "En La Boca de la Puta Grande" si como no? El Zorro
James,
I agree with your post. One related point you left out is wage stagnation. Americans were much less concerned with the cost of products when our incomes were increasing faster than the pace of inflation. Wages have barely ticked up in the last 15 plus years while inflation continues to climb. It comes down to math. When you have less to spend you have to get the most out of what you have.
Steve
Steve, you are absolutely correct. If I gave the impression I think consumers are doing something wrong, I didn't mean to. Everyone does the best they can and for most people, the cost of what they are buying is hugely important. Stagnating incomes just makes that more apparent.
My impression is that the big box stores 'buy' no inventory at all. Instead, they allow producers to use shelf space. When a customer buys the product, then the producer (or the middleman)gets paid. Look for the product with the greatest shelf space and that's where the most profit is, dog food for instance...Geo
We had a Gander Mountain open here (suburban Philadelphia) back in September. First day, lines out the door. First week, parking lot crowded. First month, parking lot fairly full. Today, park within 10 spaces of the door any weekday.
Prices are high, quality seems suspect. Work force doesn't know the products - mostly college age kids and elderly.
Local gun dealers are doing far better on variety and price for used firearms.
Doesn't bode well.
Well another one bites the dust
Gander in distress
Cabela's sold to Bass Pro Shops
NO REJOICING in this frame of thought
They served many of the uninitiated hoard
Sorry to see the changes
The shooting/hunting community is losing another element
Mike
I am happy to not have a dog in this hunt. Box stores serve a need but are not the best or only place to shop. If Gander Mountain fails the only one I feel sorry for are the workers and with their minimum level skill levels, they will find another retail job where they are under whelming in their knowledge base, fairly quickly. Investors and management should have done a better job with their planning. High margin, low volume is not a good business model because most over estimate the volume side. As to the Bass Pro-shop merger the more I read about it the less likely it sounds to be going forward. Like most here I long for the small mom and pop gun shops but most of them are gone.
Value is where you find it and I am more interested in quality than price these days. At my age and income, saving five bucks on a shirt, which will last more than a year is not that big of a deal. When you are 20 you want it to last forever and when you are young you don't have too much money to waste. When you are 60 you want it to be comfortable, do what you expect and last a few years so you have an excuse to try something else. I still buy a lot from LL Bean and give it to my kids after a few years use if they like it. Or just buy them one for Christmas, birthdays or any occasion that I can dream up. After all it is better to give it to them now when I can enjoy them using it than wait for them to get it after I am dead.
The Socialists, Leftists, and Trump haters here obviously recognize that wage stagnation is a driving force behind the relentless pursuit of cheaper products which are manufactured in low wage countries. And they are quite correct.
What they will never admit is the fact that having as many as 20 million (or more) illegal undocumented aliens here is a driving force behind the wage stagnation they complain about. The "official" number of illegals has been stuck on 11 million for over a decade as the floodgates remained open to over 40,000 more illegals each month in Texas alone, so we should be bright enough to do the math and know that's a lie. Apprehensions by Customs Enforcement along the southern border were at least 26,248 illegals in October of 2016, and we know only a small percentage are caught coming in. The only reason the immigration system is broken is because we lost the will to enforce the working system we had. Passing new immigration laws will do nothing if the wall isn't built and the flood reversed by enforcing the law.
Add in greater manufacturing efficiencies due to automation, and you have a recipe for a disappearing middle class. Tax the hell out of corporations and that dwindling middle class in order to pay for an expanding Welfare State which supports both citizens and illegals, and you end up where we are now... swirling down the drain and crying that it can never be fixed. Meanwhile, the Lefties who whine the most will be the ones who fight any attempt to fix things.
Keith, remember Margaret Thatchers quote that Socialism only works as long as you have other people's money to give away. We are nearing that tipping point where 50+% will be taking from an ever smaller number of tax payers. The system worked at 10% up to 40% but the baby boomers are about to all down size and retire. Vast amounts of tax incomes will be lost to the government to spend. The baby boomers will be taking more out in retirement than paying in taxes and nobody is looking at that elephant in the room.
When Gander opened here in Geneva. It was the biggest store. I was buying about two to three guns a week. They had six guys working the gun counter and it was busy. They got a shipment of guns from one of their store that had a flood. It was hundreds of guns. The line was way down the mall waiting for them to open. All the guns were sold in 1 day. I had three friends working there and they would tell me when some good guns came in. After 1 year they cut the staff at the gun counter to two and they quit buying guns. When I ask one of my friends that still worked there, he was told to push clothes and not guns. They explained that they make 100% makeup on clothes and only 35% on guns. He was fired shortly after for trying to tell his boss that you have to get the people in the store with gun bargains and than they will buy the clothes. His boss told him he was wrong and fired him. I have been back a couple of times in the past 4 years, you could let off a shotgun in the main isles and not hit one person. It is a ghost town now.
There are reports that Gander Mountain may soon file for bankruptcy.
Gander, known as one of America’s firearms superstores, operates 160 stores in 27 states, including several that opened in 2016 in Pennsylvania, Colorado and Texas. More than 50 stores opened in the last five years.
Their store in St. Louis never seems crowded, and has to also compete with a local Cabela's and Bass Pro. An O.K. store, with nice people, but few bargains.
gold40
I suppose we can conclude this topic by saying the number of costumers who consider it a status symbol to pay premium for same or similar items than the rest of us has dwindled to an infinitesimal uneconomic minority.
The 'race to the bottom' regarding consumer product prices can only have one result....the search for cheaper manufacturing costs by our much needed corporations....ergo....offshore production. China will soon be in crisis as wages increase there. India and Pakistan will see a boom in the next decade as their population is ready and willing to work for less then the Chinese.
Investor want for greater profits also have a huge influence regarding offshore production.
Take Levis for example....they ended all North American production, and moved them offshore. Their costs were probably cut in half (or more) and yet the price of a pair of jeans stayed the same. Where did all that extra money go? Same as Ford, GM ect.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM TRYING TO MAKE MORE MONEY AND CUT COSTS. THIS IS NOT A LEFTY/RIGHTY ISSUE. But there is a cost.
Money runs the economy, whether it's the consumer looking for a tube of tooth paste for 50 cents (meaning no homeland manufacturing is possible to meet that price), or investors looking for the best corporate profit margins. We are certainly shooting ourselves in the foot on both accounts.
Consolidation of corporate operations (mergers, buyouts, etc) have been occurring for centuries. That is one way to cut costs, by reducing redundancies, etc. The question is, will these savings be used to to increase workers wages, increase dividend payouts, or executive bonuses?
It's sad to see any store go under. It would be nice to know why Gander is.
just say'n.
P.S. - I agree with CB