Hey everyone,

Some of the Canadian members may have already seen this gun (Canvasback and ChrisDawe I am looking at you) as I am "Sharps" on CGN.

Anywho, it's a C.G. Bonehill in 12 gauge. The gun is between 1904-1921 based on proofs, but there are no visible serial numbers on the outside. When I took the forend iron out of the wood it is stamped B1077 on the ejector box.

This leads me to my question;
This gun ejects both barrels, they are properly timed and everything so no worries there. The problem is the left barrel is very weak, only causing a snap cap to "hop" about 2 inches in the chamber, whereas the other launches a snap cap about 3 feet out.

I am thinking this is just a tired spring but I wanted to make sure with the experts on here before I proceed any further. They appear to be every so slightly modified Westley Richards style ejectors and not the weird older Bonehill ones. I am thinking since this is a higher grade gun they did that...?

If it is just a spring, what is the best course of action for replacement? There is a good video on Youtube from MidwayUSA about these ejectors.They also have a good video about replacing an ejector spring on a Remington 1900. Should I just follow these?

Thanks and best,
Fox

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If the weak spring isn't cracked, could it be re-shaped and heat treated to save making a new one ?

I really don't know. How would you go about doing that?

I've heard it can be done, I managed to rescue a weak plate spring once so assumed it could be done with an intact vee spring. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on tempering will tell us.

Make sure the ejector rod moves freely in the barrel 1st . When you cock the ejectors by hand does the weak one cock easier?

Jack Rowe's Midway video on spring making could be used as a guide. I learned how to make springs by viewing it. If you want to try it yourself. But, you may want someone else to do it. I use a high output burner, which normally heats my boiling/steaming tanks. It's much more difficult using a propane or welding torch, but it would depend on the size. The bigger the better, so you can heat evenly.

I speculate that the spring would first have to be brought to red heat, spreaded slightly, then quenched. Important that it is "cherry red", not higher so as not to burn carbon out. Then, the spring would need to be tempered. I coat springs with ATF, heat until the oil "flashes off", then quench. Many others temper differently using things like a lead bath. The temp of a lead bath is controlled better, and is a more precise method of tempering. Springs are tricky and require practice, so you might consider having it done by a professional. You probably don't want to chance breaking it, due to improper tempering.

For me, if I break one, out come the files and the spring steel and I make another one, which is fairly time consuming. Luckily, I'm to the point I seldom have them break.

Regards
Ken

Are the two springs interchangeable or are they Side specific. If they are interchangeable then swap them & see if the one which doesn't eject strongly swaps sides. You would then know for certain it was the spring rather than some other problem.

Sorry, no advice on spring making although I think Miller had a great thought.

I'm really just here so say when I read the thread headline in the index I was thinking "What's with all the Bonehill's lately?" lol

Good luck.

Fox,
It seems that Bonehill did not put the serial # of the gun on the outside as many other makers did. My Bonehill SLE only has the serial # stamped on the water table and the barrel flats. Interesting too is that the choke designations are stamped on the barrels ahead of the flats. The right tube is stamped "modified" and the left tube is stamped "full".

Just thought of something which may help, if all is well with the rest of the mechanism and the spring can be re tempered, an old gunsmith told me to blaze the spring twice before trying it, his view was that it's better to fit a weak spring which would just bend if it's not hard enough rather than try one that's too brittle and may well snap. A weak one can be bent back to shape and hardened again where as a broken one has to be made from scratch.
I've only made one vee spring and it worked fine after two blazings , I'm definitely not an expert and while writing this it struck me that it's probably a job for someone who knows the task inside out.
Probably not much help but I thought I'd mention it.

Here's the link Steve posted in another thread. I had a chat with Peter Nagel the other day, he says he is able to weld cracked V springs.

http://www.restorativewelding.com/Welcome.html

Regards
Ken

Sorry for the confusion, but the spring is not cracked, but very tired. I suspect from being stored with the ejectors cocked for years at a time.

Jpari, the serial numbers are nowhere on the outside. This includes the tang as well as the water table, flats, or forend iron. The gun is older that the Birmingham requirements for choke designations which started in 1921 or 1925 I believe.

2-pieper I am not sure if the springs are side specific, I know the Midway video noted something about this particularly but I don't remember at the moment. I will look again, and if they are not, I will do what you are suggesting.

ElGarro Thanks for the advice, I will keep this in mind.

So far the best bet seems to be to see if I can just ever so slightly bend the contacting arm outwards, increasing the strength. I will get home and do some more inspecting and experimenting with the system.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

Fox18, a few thoughts. Springs should not get "tired" from sitting stressed for a long time. Note that steel bridges do not fall down after a few years. A spring which has yielded (proper name for getting tired) was most likely improperly heat treated (hardened and tempered). Springs are more likely to crack or break than to yield.

IMO, the spring should be annealed before any attempt to bend it/reshape it (bending equal yielding it further). I'd recommend against trying to redo this spring to save money. Spring making can be done at a relatively low tech level, but needs a bit of supervised experience for best/quickest results. If you want to learn to make springs, get some files, spring stock, and a heat source and get after it. Save this spring for in case you decide spring making is not your cup 'o tea. Mechanically inclined people usually find spring making not particularly difficult - a tad time consuming, yes.

DDA

Thanks for the info.

I will have to get out the magnifying glass and some bettr lighting and give it an extremely thorough check, looking for cracks.

I consider myself more toward mechanically inclined than most and have experience with working with metal, so I feel fairly confident making one. I will make several practice ones before hand of course. Redoing this spring was to never save money, but to save the trouble of making a new one. If I have to do it though, I most definitely will.

Thanks for the great advice!

A nice source of Spring Steel is old, leg-hold Traps. I bought a large box of them at auction several years ago. Literally years worth of spring material. Due to the variety of the sizes of their component parts, it's easy to select a piece close to the size you need. After cutting off the sized piece you need, annealing, and "having at it" with a large Bastard File makes initial shaping go fairly guickly. You can shift a lot of metal with one in a very short time.

Regards
Ken

Are the swivels OK?

Changed my screen name to Sharps45-70 from Fox18 to better match my CGN account. Hopefully no confusion there.

Gunman, what do you mean when you say "swivels"?

Ken, thanks for the advice. I will keep my eye out. This would have to be annealed then cut out with a dremel or something, correct?

What I would do is disable the ejector function if possible and use the gun as is. Aren't you Canadians just like us Americans. What is mean is we go deep into the bush shoot twice and always eat what we shoot. Englishmen have rather crude description of this activity referring to it as "rough shooting". Unless you are shooting doves or participate in driven game shoot ejectors aren't really necessary. As a bonus we don't have to bend over and pick up empties. We pick up empties because we are good nature respecting fellas.

You can cut the piece initially with a high-speed carbide cutter, making it somewhat oversize. Then you can anneal it and go at it with the file. You can also initially shape with a grinding wheel, as long as you don't let it get too hot. It also helps if your vise has a flat spot for hammering, as many of the trap parts have a bend to'em.

Regards
Ken

The swivel is the small toggle that connects between the spring and the kicker.

In that case, yes the swivels are OK.