Does anyone have any knowledge of the quality of the Ithaca Classic Doubles Shotguns? There are several for sale on the internet now. I have heard that the 471 Series (made in USA) were better than the 470 Series (made in Italy). Any truth to that? Any knowledge or help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Claybuster
Beschi versions left a lot to be desired in workmanship.
JR
IIRC there was some concern over soft parts with the Italian made ones.
You also have to watch out for the guns made from the rejected parts. You will see them with no name on them. Basic primer is that only look at the ones made in the US. The fit was not as nice on those made in Italy as a general rule. Then there is the suspicion that some of the parts were not up to desired standards. I know someone must have an NID made in Italy which is perfect but the vast majority that I have held are not.
It is a shame really. There was a demand for high grade small bores. But they never were able to get production up to high enough levels to meet it. I would have loved to have a 28 ga. with 30 or better yet 32" barrels. What a dove gun and pen released chicken gun that would have been. I've been looking for a 28 NID with bad barrels to have sleeved. Found one but refused to pay four grand for a gun which needed sleeved barrels, all metal redone and a new stick of wood for a stock.
This is all good info, and very similar to what I had heard previously. Thanks to everyone for your inputs.
Double Shooter
They were ALL made in the USA, in the sense of final fitting and wood. The question is where the components (actions and barrels) came from. The earlier ones had Italian components. The later ones (471xxx serial number) had Krupp barrels. By that time, the ICD operation really had its act together. Unfortunately, the economy hit a bump at about the same time.
KY Jon, it's been some time now, but I recall seeing a 28ga 4E for sale with two sets of barrels: 30" and 24". Sounded to me like someone ordered one for maybe doves with the long barrels; maybe grouse/woodcock and quail with the short ones. Gave it some thought, and originally Ithaca did make some smallbores with 24" barrels. Saw a very nice graded Flues 20 with 24" barrels I gave some thought to.
Interesting to go back to that early ICD discussion. Unfortunate, once the "bugs" were worked out, that the ICD venture didn't continue.
Steve Lamboy of ICG is now with Zoli. Reach out to him, he will be happy to talk with you.
I have a New Ithaca SxS 28gauge Grade 4 late manufacture gun with the Merkel manufactured Krupp barrels and if I recall correctly VGM receiver. The guns is both high quality and beautiful. Fit, finish and function compare favorable to the current Spanish SxS guns retailing over $8k.
On the other hand the early (Italian component) guns had some issues...as did the close out part sets.
I know a few partially complete guns walked out the door at the end!!!. Some have probably been finished and sold as original. Plus they were finishing guns quickly to raise quick money and the quality was not the best. I had a chance to buy a 2 barrel set 16 gauge that was probably 60% complete. I passed due to the price and just didn't feel comfortable with owning it.
I have a Beschi completed 410. The most obvious deviation from an American ICD is the wood. It's a dark, plain, straight grained wood, of unknown species to me.
When examined closer, the ICD logo in the game scene border, on the bottom of frame, was obliterated by stippling.
Further function tests reveal other mechanical issues. The chambers were too tight, the cocking cams over cut, etc.
For the average guy, a Beschi marked gun is a nightmare. I went in eyes open and aware of the issues and aware a 410 sxs in any make is somewhat rare and expensive. My advice is to avoid them. I see some Beschi assembled parts gun being advertised as ICD guns. A picture of the bottom of the frame and barrel roll marks will identify these parts guns.
I remember seeing several Beschis on a table at a gun show several years back. Looked down the outside of the barrels on one, saw a lot of ripples. Didn't see any without ripples.
Larry,
In general, the workmanship is low to average on my Beschi. I can't speak to the ripples right now as it's in the safe. But I don't recall them on my gun. I'm still messing around with it to get it in good order. I have it apart for fixing the cocking cams and timing. ....another project I need to return to.