why is gun fit such a big deal for sxs double gun shooters and not so much for o/u shooters? and pump gun and auto loader shooters could care less?

Where did you get that stupid idea Ed? Maybe you were too busy posting anti-2nd Amendment nonsense such as this, rather than researching the subject:







And when you weren't posting anti-2nd Amendment crap, you were attacking dove hunters and posting garbage in support of anti-hunting groups like PETA:






Have a nice day Ed.

where is that ignore button?

Professional competitors usually shoot vertical guns while dedicated upland hunters often choose horizontal guns and care about appropriate cast and lop. The casual Country Sod using pump or semi-auto is not concerned enough to care. What is surprising is rifle hunters don't seem to care at all about the gun fit where one would seem it would be important (one hole in game vs many tiny ones). I suspect Europeans shooting running game probably care more about rifle fit as opposed to Americans who stalk their game and shoot it like Marine Snipers.

That does not seem to make a lot of sense.
Gun fit is just as important for any shotgun action type. Still the same thing that the shooters eye is the rear sight.
It may just be that some folk think fit can be compensated for by firepower.
I have a bolt 12g shotgun with a rear sight & it can be shot like a big rifle.
O.M

Ed, is your question acts like bait for bad manners. If so, I guess it worked

As Moses states before me gun fit is important for any shotgun action type.

I do not believe that O/U shooters or competitive shooters ignore gunfit. While many may, the best pay attention to everything.

SXS shooters put more into stock fit as, at least from my experience shooting one requires instinctive response. A lot of single barrel shooters aim at the target, some get very good at it. This style of shooting compensates for stock fit. I can't imagine they would be tops in competitive clays, though.

Even with a massive 10 gauge SXS, I tend to shoot better when a quick response was necessary. I read something about getting on target with rifles, a heavy British double rifle properly fitted was on target first, a relatively light "handy" lever action rifle (one stock fits all) was on target last.

When I shoot my BSS in S x S competition events I premount it, same as I do my O/U comp gun. I won the AA class in the S x S event in 2010 at the U. S. Open with it. I had just gotten the gun and hadn't even opened the choke yet on the left barrel. It was still full choke.

When I shoot ducks I mount it and shoot in one motion. A gun does not have to be mutually exclusive of one or the other. You can shoot both ways with the same gun.

SRH

Ed - have you been to a trap or sporting clays competition lately? Have you noticed how many shooters have adjustable comb stocks to customize stock fit?

Yes its a generalization, but I share this observation. I've also long ago concluded that a good shot is a good shot, no matter what shotgun is thrust in his hands.

What the hell does that totally incoherent statement above mean Gladys Kravitz... I mean old colonel?





Certainly, Ed has noticed that many competition guns, be they O/U's or Semi's, have adjustable combs or buttplates. And anyone associated with guns who is as old as Ed has seen or heard what moses posted about gun fit, and the shooter's eye being the rear sight, no matter what type of shotgun you have. After all, Ed is a long-time internet gun dealer, not some 18 year old neophyte. But we all need to understand his real motivation for posing his question is most likely a feigned interest in double guns in order to distance himself from his frequent anti-2nd Amendment and anti-hunting statements. He was so proud of them when he posted them that I'm pretty sure he would want to see them again. Just my personal opinion, based upon his own words, of course:

Keith, your posts are a one trick pony with repastes

Contary to the focus of your post, we know Ed, good and bad without your ever present vitriol.

God Bless-you,

Edit: Contrary to the focus of your post, we know Ed good and bad without your ever present vitriol.

Further edit: PS I doubt my errors confused your rapier wit or lack of restraint in posting a reply, as you never seem to be able to hold back and let stuff go.

Is "Contary" a word Gladys... I mean old colonel? And do you always answer questions about one totally incoherent statement by making yet another totally incoherent statement? Or has your anal sphincter cut off all blood flow to your brain? So sorry you see vitriol in all of my posts, even as you rush to make lame excuses for anti-2nd Amendment Trolls.

Aren't you glad you made the decision to harass me? How's that working out for you?

Anger issues Kieth....... Here's Help

Stan,
I think that premounting a gun obviates the need for best shotgun fit. But competing in FITASC sporting clays or wild bird hunting convinces me a well fit gun fit really helps a lot. What I don't understand is how it ever came about to have premounted guns in any shotgun competition. It takes away such a nice portion of the skills required to be the best shooter.

No thanks Bob. I'm a happy guy... even happier since Inauguration Day. Maybe you should direct your help to Mrs. Kravitz... I mean old colonel. He's so consumed with anger that he sees vitriol where there is nothing but legitimate questions about totally incoherent statements made by him, or direct verbatim anti-gun quotes made by Ed. But in spite of his apparent mental deficiencies, he can at least spell my name correctly... which is more than can be said for you.

By the way, I wouldn't think of clicking on your link. Who knows what sort of sick website or virus I'd be redirected to?

I agree also.

Thank you for pointing out my grammatical ommission.

You are always so very reserved and classy in your posts.

Thanks for noticing Mrs, Kravitz... I mean old colonel. But I'm shocked that you forgot your disingenuous blessing. Tell me, was it very difficult to formulate a coherent one sentence reply? Or did you have to get some help with that?

I'm guessing you had help from Mr. Kravitz.

EDIT: OK Gladys... I mean old colonel, you had a good thing going, but went and ruined it by adding a second sentence. Incoherent statements and frequent gross spelling errors are not grammatical omissions. Check your dictionary please.

Bless you for your kindness and good manners

Then again, was there any?

Yes Mrs Kravitz, there was the sound advice to check your dictionary before you go off half-cocked, and once again demonstrate your mental deficiency. But no need to thank me with blessings that you really don't mean. Many here would consider such disingenuous behavior as mocking God... and they'd be correct. However, I wouldn't expect anything else from a petty hypocrite who has such a holier than thou attitude.

Good night. Don't forget to turn your clocks ahead one hour.

Who am I to think you do not wish me a good night? Am I to think you disingenuous? I accept your good wishes and hope they were meant.

I wish your were blessed with a little restraint and kindness, or at least better internet posting manners.

I mock nothing save your posts, which you can't seem to bear without coming out from under your cyber bridge in Pennsylvania where you hide and snipe from.

I wish you well and better manners, and if not that then restraint.

If you cannot abode reading my posts ignore me, but then you would have to show self restraint.

Bless you, as damming you is not my place and would be unbecoming, anyway damnation is a personal choice and not externally driven anyhow.

I remain hopeful of your future good manners and restraint

i certainly agree that length of pull can be a factor in the comfortable mounting of a gun...however, all this business about cast, pitch, drop at heal, drop at comb, etc... well, it just seems to be much to do about very little...

If you don't hunt seriously or shoot clays at a good competitive level, then that assessment holds good for Good. However if you go out of your comfort zone and change your experience, then so will your perceptions be changed.

The mass produced guns that come out of the factories are by and large a reasonable fit for Mr Everyman, who is not shooting serious competition or into game shooting big time.

That however doesn't stop the likes of Beretta selling their semi autos with a set of adjustable shims to alter the parameters you mention, and including an extra different length butt pad in the deal. They are meeting a customer requirement.

Nor does Mr Everyman always find the standard stock to his liking. Although I have the body, carriage and gait of a Greek God, virtually no "ordinary" gun allows me to see anything other than the bump of the action when my cheek is on the stock; no foresight, no rib, nowt. So all mine have to be twiddled around, they'd be useless otherwise.

I've shot a fair bit of driven game, and believe me a properly fitted gun is a help. Ditto wood pigeon when I was shooting 3000 of them a year, and geese with a 3" magnum; good fit makes heavy loads and multiple shots more bearable.

Your experience is what your experience is, but it isn't that of anyone else.

Eug

Seeing that most autos and pumps from respectable makers come with stock adjusting shims, and doubles do not, it would seem that fit concerns auto owners a fair amount.

There was a charity "tower shoot" for pheasants held locally yesterday morning. A local bank asked me to shoot in behalf of their sponsorship. Naturally I obliged!

Shells were to be provided and I figured they would be heavy duties. Yep, Fiochi 1 1/4 oz. high speeds. I didn't want to chance my sxs's or my shoulder to that so I brought my Beretta gas gun.

I don't shoot that gun often, but I noticed yesterday that with the shims aligned right and the correct kick pad, that gun fit me as well or better than any of my doubles. That always shows in my shooting even though I am certainly not a high level shooter...Geo

suspect that much of this gun fit business, is in fact business for those who provide gun fitting services for a fee...and fine tuning your gun for perceived better fit and fine tuning your ammo for perceived better performance are confidence builders...making one perhaps a better shooter, because one thinks he will become so, by correcting equipment issues that may conflict with desired performance goals...have observed this same phenomenon with golfers, sailers and fisher persons...

I refuse to believe, that as a gun dealer & whatever else you have to do with guns, that you do not better understand gun fit.
So for the purpose of your temptation to argument I will again state that the shooters eye is the rear sight on a shotgun.

Nearly every other sight system on firearms is adjustable. Rear sight for both wind age & elevation & front for wind age & elevation.

Even though the sight system on a shot gun is not supposed to be squinted along & aligned like a rifle, the sight picture is still important.
The stock fit is what adjusts the gun into the persons sight picture correctly so that the gun shoots where the eye looks.
Wind age by cast & comb thickness & elevation by drop at heel & comb height.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend ?

If my golf club is to short for me it will cramp my swing & effect follow through.
If my A class catamaran sail is not tuned to my weight then the sail will belly & depower.
Like wise to lure fish for flathead while wading on sandbanks & use a uglystick boat rod may catch a fish or three, the cast & retrieve are going to be a bit laborious.

Do you ever find that after your wife or kids have driven your car that the seat & mirrors need to be adjusted back to suit you ? Or do you just drive off all cramped up under the steering wheel & hunch over so you can see in the rear view mirror ?
I think that adjustable seat slides in auto's are over rated.
If you can drive, then you can drive, what has the seat to do with anything. It is just a place to put your butt.
The mirror is useless too. You should be looking at where you are going & not where you have been.
O.M

well gee, moses...if you put it that way, then making it fit just for you makes sense...plus, it is fun to tinker with things and people...

There you go folks. That is the true topic heading.
O.M

...right up to the point you get knocked the f out.


_________________________
That Nanna Maddsen is a cutie...but boy, that mouth...
https://youtu.be/6OGS_KwsL88

thank goodness for slip on pads and comb raisers...they keep lots of guns stocks from being butchered....

Well, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Why do you worry so much about wood being butchered when you do something worse to actions with your acetylene torch?

What a hypocrite.

SRH

Greek God, Huh. That's what we like about you Eugene, your modest to a fault.

Absolutely not. You might want to consider the tens of thousands of $ in a pigeon shoot purse if you are interested on knowing the why of it happening.

just a thot

Dr.WtS

I agree with Jerry V.
I'm not a great shooter, never will be either.
But to me the whole beauty of watching a really good shot,hitting flying targets is the lovely fluid action of the mount, swing n follow through.
Its lovely to watch....pre mounted leaves half the skill out, I think.
What ever the purse of a Pigeon shoot,I think the winner should be the bloke who can get his gun up,swing well & hit whatever is the target.
Taking out the mount seems to me like taking half the skill involved away.
The scores probably go up, but I don't see that means better, controlled shooting.
you have one too,Dr Wonko,
cheers
franc

Does the term "non sequitur" ring a bell?

have another day
Dr.WtS

Doesn't pre mounted make it easier?..perhaps not.Just thinking aloud I guess
I just meant You "to have another day" as well, Dr W
cheers
franc

I have to disagree, Jerry. I would say that having a shotgun that fits is every bit as important for premounting as it is for low gun. There is SO much more involved in fitting to shoot to point of aim than length of pull.

That said, and I may start a fire, but paid for gunfitting is not something I would ever suggest to anyone who is willing to do the work themselves. It ain't magic, all it takes is the means to shoot lots of patterns you can look at quickly. I've posted this before, but when I started sporting clays seriously I began to fit the gun to me, to shoot to proper point of impact. I didn't care what the measurements were, I just wanted it to give me a perfect 60-40 print. I built up the comb, kept lengthening the pull, and I achieved what I thought was a perfect fit, then shot the crap out of it. About a year later some friends invited me to a fitting session, so I went, mostly out of curiosity. What resulted was that not one measurement I received after shooting the try gun for over a half hour was over 1/8" off my measurements on my gun at home. Some were exact. I actually believe anyone with a modicum of sense can make any gun shoot to the point of impact they want, within reason, by themselves. and maybe even more accurately than by a fitter because you can take much more time with it, over days and weeks.

I'll save my thoughts about why remounting is disliked by many for another day. Thanks for the comments, Jerry.

Whats going' on here, Wonk? Deja vu, all over again.

SRH

Gun fitting for me would be an exercise if futility for the fact that I shoot more than fifteen different guns at present. And I almost always shoot low gun... sometimes pre-mounted at trap. I'm not a serious competitive shooter but I do like to break a lot of clays when I go to a shoot. I'll usually bring a minimum of four different guns to shoot - different gauges, different dimensions, different barrel lengths, and different weights. I simply re-teach myself how I must mount each different gun I shoot. None of mine are newer than 1935 and some as old as 1880. The thing that is hardest for me to get used to is a LOP that is too short, say 13 3/4" or less....
But I do break some clays and I do have a lot of fun and I sometimes even surprise myself, both in a good way and sometimes in a not so good way.

Most of you are in the position of the 'serious shooter' and that's a good thing... it gives us casual shooters something to strive for.

Having all of my guns altered to fit me would probably break the bank.

An interesting perspective.
I also have a large collection that I like to shoot from time to time.
I've taken advantage of this to do some science (scary but I think the best way to put old wives tales to the test).
I've kept track of shooting the same guns over the same sporting clays course over a period of time.
Statistically I shoot better the closer the gun is to my measured fit.
LOP is the least sensitive - I can adjust via more or less "aggressive" mounts.
Drop is second least sensitive - likewise on the adjustment
Cast is critical - poor cast means poor shooting.
Pitch and Wrist Circumference (Yardley, if I recall ponders this as a factor) appear to be irrelevant.
Of course it all could be just due to rubbish shooting skills on my part.
However, when I go for more serious shooting or hunting I take the gun(s) that fit me best.
I'm sure anyone can adapt to almost anything to an extent. Almost, for example, means I'd have a bugger of a time with a crossover stock, and I don't see those who claim to be able to shoot anything shooting them either so that tells you right there about the fundamental integrity of the argument I think.

Jeremy

"I actually believe anyone with a modicum of sense can make any gun shoot to the point of impact they want, within reason, by themselves. and maybe even more accurately than by a fitter because you can take much more time with it, over days and weeks."

A simple truth. What with Yardley's books and Bruce Buck's online procedure there is all anyone needs to make the gun right. It really is TabA/SlotB stuff.
Personally I can't imagine contending with a gun that didn't fit but obviously that would just be me. Having guns that I'm unable to shoot serves no purpose for me.


"Doesn't pre mounted make it easier?..perhaps not.Just thinking aloud I guess
I just meant You "to have another day" as well, Dr W
cheers
franc"

I interpreted the control statement differently than I guess you intended. But I did understand the same to you thing hahaha