My first question is, what is this part? It's slightly larger then your typical stock oval and I obtained it years ago with a bunch of percussion shotgun parts.

I was thinking of insetting it into the stock of a 12 gauge Pedersoli SXS I have, drilling a cavity under the opening and use it for holding percussion caps. I figured to mount it where one would normally mount a stock oval.

Steve

I think it might be awkward to keep loose caps in a hole in your stock, and would prefer to use a proper sized straight line capper for that task.

This little accessory was more likely intended to store a jag, worm, or a couple spare nipples.

I'm wondering if the maker of this little item started out with a rectangular piece of German silver, or actually drilled the hinge pin holes into the curved surfaces without having the bit wander all over the place.

Army M1 had the opening. It was used for a cleaning rod

You don't indicate the size, but it looks like a percussion cap box. I have one that is 2 1/2 inches long by 5/8 inches wide that is mounted in the bottom of the buttstock behind the trigger guard on an original 1850's or 60's percussion gun

Muzzleloaded for about 20 years and it IS a cap box and was used on both shotguns and rifles, also some pistols although these were usually more round and went into the butt like a buttcap. Mounted as William Lowe indicated. Put caps in it, when needed turn the gun with the trigger guard up, open the cover and tip out what you need. They really work quite well.

Some folks do/did use them to hold a jag and in smaller calibers like a 36 Cal. Squirrel gun they could be used to hold precut patches, providing the hole it large enough.

It would work very well for what you are considering using it for although as someone pointed out a nice inline capper is easier to use....

Have a Great Day All...
WBLDon

Was used for a variety of items. Usually to hold a couple spare nipples. Could be used for caps as well. Were probably used to hold just about anything you could think of at one time that would fit, which isn't much.

In pistols you sometimes see them holding an extra ball or two.

Thanks for the responses!

I like the idea of using it to hold the jag that I keep for unloading the gun. As for storing spare percussion nipples, I use stainless steel percussion nipples so I doubt I'll be needing spares soon. And why not, my ancestors would've done the same thing if they had been available then. I guess I'm just a pragmatic black powder shooter. In fact I only use black powder because I really like the KABOOM!, huge muzzle flame, and smoke.

Steve

Yup-and we in the USMC from 1941 through 1965 knew the great M-1 Garand quite well- great rifle, very reliable, accurate and heavy--

What??? I thought the only weapons they gave Marines were Model 12s and Ka-Bar fighting knives.

http://olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotgun_m12.php

Nope- we had the Springfield 1903-the later revised version 1903-A3, a few had the Johnson semi-auto, then the Garand and the BAR- plus our issued bayonets and K-Bar fighting knives- shotguns, mostly Winchester Model 1897 trench guns from WW1- later on, with the campaign against the Japanese in the Pacific theater, the great M-1 Garand, the Thompson SMG and some Ithaca M37 and both Model 12 and 97 riot guns- usually with brass shells, against the salt water and over-all humidity of that TO--

Issue sidearm for officers and non-coms E-5 and up was, of course, the great 1911-A-1 in .45ACP- same round as for the Thompson SMG-- The only issue weapon, which came out in about 1943, that was not 'up to snuff", IMO, was the M-1 carbine. Dave Petzal, gun writer for F&S, once wrote about a boyhood neighbor who was in the 101st A/B and survived both Normandy and Bastogne in WW11-- he carried both a 1911-A-1 and the paratrooper issue M-1 carbine with the folding metal tubular stock (similar to the British Sten and also the German Schmeisser-)and he had a full 15 round magazine, when a huge German Feldwebel (Sgt.) charged at him with a drawn Luger pistol- at close range he emptied all fifteen rounds from that M-1 carbine, all hit the big German in the chest, and he was still alive and aiming his Luger when the last round hit him in the head and he died face forward in the snow at Bastogne--I share the same negative feeling about the M-16 in 'Nam, POS weapon, and I relied on the "improved version" of the Garand, the M-14. "Use enough gun" does not always mean Robert Ruark in Africa--Semper Fi!!

RWTF,
A new term for me. What is/was a "Johnson semi-auto."

About the time the US Army was considering adopting the M-1 Garand, without completely dropping the Springfield BA- both in .30-06 Gov't cal.-- Johnson offered a ten shot gas operated semi-auto rifle in the same std. caliber- instead of the 8 round enbloc clip the Garand used, the Johnson had a rotary magazine, perhaps the idea taken from the Savage M99 lever action with a rotary magazine, not 100% sure on that. The Johnson had a distinctive "pot-bellied" look, but it was reliable, offered 2 more rounds to the operator than the Garand, and had slightly fewer operational components than the Garand. RIA auction house sometimes has them offered in their catalogues, and if you want to see what one looks like, perhaps you could e-mail RIA and ask for details--RWTF

If you have or can find a copy of "Hatcher's Notebook" he has good coverage on all aspects of the Johnson, its good points as well as its bad ones.

Courtesy of Mr. Google:

Just as I remember it- we had one in the Armory Stateside, but as it was never adopted for use in WW2- we never fired it. Do I assume that Mr. Google was the infamous "Barney Google"- eyes like those of the late comedian Jerry Colona--??? RWTF

The Johnson is a real departure from the guns before it. Had it come along before the Garrand had such a following it might have been adopted but the Garrand looks more like a military rifle which helped it more than you might think. It was normal looking. The Johnson was described to me as a pot belly pig. I shot one many years ago and found it, or atleast that one was very reliable. Accuracy was decent with open sights and we ran perhaps two rounds through it without a malfunction. Of course gun never malfunction on the range, just when you really, really need them.

The problem often encountered in new weapon design is the limitation imposed before the first design is put to paper. When you decide to keep all designs to 30-06, as a logistics decision to keep supplies to a bare number, you limit the gun. Smaller rounds could increase the capacity but you question the possible decrease of lethality. Case in point was the Carbine which was just a pistol round in a long gun.

If you read about Johnson you will find he was a interesting fellow with a bit of a checkered past. In many ways he was a fellow who thought in 3-D like John Browning. He could visualize how things worked together, make a working model and alter it to refine it better.

Just got my latest RIA catalogue today, and on page 13 they show in good color foto detail a Johnson. Be interesting to see what it "hammers down" at for bid price. I have a M-1 D Korean USMC issue sniper rifle, just as shown above the Johnson rifle-Very accurate, but due to top enbloc clip ejection feature, a scope mount on any Garand is always a "Rube Goldberg" contraption. My NM 1903-A3 Springfield (Remington) is way more accurate out to max. visibility sight range with peep sight- for me- about 500 yards- The Garand with 10X scope, maybe to 750 yards- I also looked at the Rock-Ola (juke box Co.?) presentation M-1 carbie- reminds me of Donald Sutherland's quip to The 101 st. A/B Col- Everett Dasher Breed in "The Dirty Dozen"-- very pretty, Col., but can they fight?-- I'd rather have a riot M12 with 00 buck than a M-1 carbine= anything in range you hit with that is gonna die--

John Garand- one r only, just like one m in Hemingway, or Remington. Canadian born, started working on the design prior to 1930--lock and load

As a side note John did not pronounce his last name as Ga Rand' as most call his rifle but Gar' and. This came from an article on his rifle which appeared in "The American Rifleman" many years ago by a person who was closely associated with John, thus knew whereof he spoke.

There was a TV thing on the Johnson. A negative was the thin barrel, which could bend when used for bayonet application. Also, the bayonet affected reliability in feeding, because it was a short-recoil operation. Also, the rotary magazine defied regular maintenance procedures. Like a Savage 99, disassembly of the rotary magazine is only for gunsmiths


I read a book, "The Last Stand of Fox Company" about a company of Marines that had the first contact with the Chinese in the Korean War. This was in bitter winter. The book said that the M 1 Carbine wasn't loved because the rounds wouldn't penetrate well through the ice and frozen material of the Chinese. Head shots were recommended.

It's a very good book.

Thanks for the info and picture. I can truthfully say I have learned something new today!!

A great book and one of the most courageous stands in the history of warfare. For the most part Fox Company was made up of kids. The American kid can fight if he is properly led.