I've fiddled with 12 gauge loads for years, but never loaded anything except a factory duplication skeet load in 20. My reasoning was that 7/8 oz. was little enough shot, and I wanted all the lead in the air I could get there.
Well, I've grown up.
A friend has been shooting 3/4 oz. for quite a while with no ill effect on his scores so I tried it.
What a pleasant surprise. The initial idea was to tame down a light weight SxS, but even in a 7 3/4 lb. "Panzerkampfwagen M-K20" the difference is remarkable and can only result in better shooting. The only concession I made was moving to a little more choke at 5-stand.
I settled on 12.2 gr. of International, a CB-1075, W209, and 3/4 oz of Lawrence Mag in a AA hull. It runs a pretty consistent 1150 fps over my chrono with the muzzle at one foot in front of the unit. They cost $3.75/box to load, not including the hull of course. That's moving the 'cartridge bill' as the Brits say in the right direction.
The 3/4 ounce 20 gauge wads are brilliant product, and I'm betting a factory 3/4 ounce load would sell and we may see one. The caveat is that this load will not work a recoil auto, and might not set some inertia triggers. That might be what's holding back the commercial load.
It's just a good thing for these 'square' loads and one pellet breaks I guess. Can of worms reopened!
Jones,
I've shot some Fiocchi so called "trainer" 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads and really liked them for clays. I know they make a 3/4 oz. 20 ga. load that I'm going to try in my 5lb. 12oz. 20 ga. SxS. Yes, less is sometimes better! Square loads? Ah, I'm not touching that one!
Karl
I know a couple serious sporting clay shooters who went to 3/4 ounce loads in a 12 gauge for a while. They finally settled on using 7/8 ounces as a better option. (They weren't shooting skeet!)
I now use 7/8 ounce in all my gauges; 12, 16, 20. And I agree the Fiocchi Trainer 7/8 ounce are very good loads...even in damascus barrels!
friend of mine in his eighties, is an avid skeet shooter...he fabricates 3/4 oz loads for his 20 ga citori...his typical score is in the twenties...
for those who dont fabricate, rst offers some dandy 3/4 oz 20 ga loads...
Ah. I see the Fiocchi 3/4 oz. 20's available now.
All I find though is 'sevens and a half' which seems curious.
It's a good idea, I've seen kids trying to shoot factory hot 20's and not really enjoying the experience.
I've actually patterned the Fiocchi loads, and found the patterns to be very good. By looking at the sheets, if I had all day to arrange the pellets myself, I couldn't have done better. I know they use high antimony (5%) lead in those loads.
Karl
I've never met a Fiocchi product I didn't like.
Sir, what choke did you settle on please?
I moved from cylinder to skeet for skeet.
From skeet to IC on 5-stand.
That's how they measure, but I find modern screw chokes with hard lead shot to shoot tighter than marked across the board.
Maybe it will make me a better shot. I have run that five stand in the past with a 20 gauge using standard skeet loads and skeet chokes.
Our five stand is pretty variable, but most of the stuff is 30 yards or so with the longest being the teal if you take it at the top which is a calculated 43 yards hypotenuse. It's best shot on the way up.
There is another 5-stand in the area that virtually demands a doubles trap gun.
Choke is always going to be a compromise at 5-stand.
Using a powder in the Unique/Universal/20-28 burn rate or slower, 391s will cycle even sub-1200 fps 3/4 oz weenies. If your gun does not work with those powders get a thicker (red) gas valve relief spring from Coles. My 391s are cycling perfectly on just 12.8 gr 20-28 and stock valve spring.
Interstingly, in order to make the gun work with Green Dot I must approach a 14 gr charge weight. Pressure at gas port (not chamber max psi) drives gas guns.
I was able to get my 20 ga Montefeltro to cycle them at 1200 fps, or greater.
I've never met a Fiocchi product I didn't like.
Me, either. I have become quite taken with their Interceptors for rabbit targets. My shooting buddies have quit teasing me about needing them. When they screw in a "negative" (-.005"), I drop in an Interceptor. It does.
Next time I oder some of them I might give the 3/4 oz. 20s a try. Should be the ticket for early and mid season doves.
SRH
Stan,
I'll bet the 3/4 oz. 20's would be great for high volume shooting. I'm going to pick up 4 boxes and try them out on a quick 100 clays on the sporting course.
Karl
Not sure if it was mentioned, but Noble Sport makes the 3/4 oz 20's too.
RST makes a great 3/4 oz. 20 gauge shell. I used them for quail last Fall and this Spring almost exclusively.
Agree with Shotgunjones and Stan that Fiocchi makes a great product.
I use RST for the 2.5 inch chambered guns I use. For everything else I prefer Fiocchi shells.
I shot RST's 3/4 2.5" offering this weekend at the Southern. Had great success with them, but would like something with a lower price. For me success is hitting more than I miss and a happy shoulder when I'm done. The gun is very light, and the load was very pleasant shooting.
Stan,
I'll bet the 3/4 oz. 20's would be great for high volume shooting. I'm going to pick up 4 boxes and try them out on a quick 100 clays on the sporting course.
Karl
I'm sure they would, Karl. I have run well over 500 rounds of 7/8 oz. 20 ga. loads through my Silver Pigeon II Sporting in three hours, and didn't have any problem with the recoil. I did have a KickKiller leather lace-on pad on it to increase the LOP, and it really attenuates recoil a lot. Those loads would be entirely adequate for high volume doves in Cordoba, IMO.
Very interesting load.
SRH
If they set the trigger.
I have a couple 687's from the mid 90's, one each in 12 and 20.
I've not tried any light 20's, but in the 12 if you load an ounce, it needs to be a pretty quick ounce to set the second trigger.
My 682 doubles trap gun is the same way, it likes a bit of a thump to set.
I do plan to try the Beretta 20 with the light load, but my hopes are not high.
Of course, this is nothing Rich Cole can't remedy for a buck and a half a gun plus shipping each way.
Never thought about trying them until the subject was brouht up. The 20 ga. I'm going to try them out in weighs 5lb. 12oz. with a checkered butt, so it should prove interesting in that gun.
Karl
Never used Cole, but from what I've heard they are good. Before I take my 687 SP II Sporting to Argentina again I may send it to them to be "gone through". Doesn't really matter about the 3/4 oz. loads for that trip, tho'. No such thing down theah'. All they have is 7/8 and 1 oz. loads for a 20. And, after my bird boy brought me a flat of the 1 oz. loads one morning for some very high birds, I don't want any more of them. I told him to take them back and bring me some more 7/8 oz. loads, with which I killed the very high birds most handily ...... once I figured out the lead.
SRH
I have been shooting 3/4oz 20ga loads for desert quail for years. Loaded with #7 shot they seem to be a better load than the same shot in 7/8oz. Which improvement I think may be a result of a shorter shot string and somewhat higher velocity (I just used the formula for regular 7/8oz loads but shorted the lead to 3/4oz along with the minimum powder load. Less recoil and better results for less money too. Put enough rice crispys under the shot to fill the cup when I started this but now just add one cardboard filler instead.
Funny how many people find the perfect 28 load works well in a 20 as well. I started loading them for skeet a decade ago. It was mostly a matter of economics. 28 empties have always been worth more than 12 or 20's and often hard to come across. I came into a very large number of 20 hulls just when my last two sons were getting into skeet and found a 3/4 ounce was perfect for their needs. They have filled a need and I have zero complaint about them. If you do your part they will break birds just as well as any 20 or 28 load.
Ah; The old bug-a-boo of shot string rears its ugly head again. realising that most all shells used today have some form of shot collar the following will ignore that. 3/4 oz of shot in a nominal .550" 28 gauge bore will have a column length of about .910".
3/4 oz in a nominal .615" 20 gauge bore has column length of about .730" while 7/8 oz would stretch out to about .850".
To the best of my knowledge it has never been proven that this has much (if any) bearing on the actual length of the shot string in the air.
i believe you can likely rule out a shorter shot string as being the basis of your Improved shooting.
In fact I can think of no ballistic reason how reducing the shot load by 15% can result ion a more effective load.
My best guess is that due to the lighter recoil you are just "Shooting it Better".