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Posted By: Oberndorf Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/21/17 11:05 PM
Look for some help id an old side plated boxlock SxS shotgun. Its Belgium made but there is no makers name on the gun.

Any help will be appreciated....



















Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/21/17 11:10 PM
Tubes more than likely sourced from Neumann Brothers(Neumannn Frères). I suppose they could have manufactured it? Anything on the buttplate or top rib?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Oberndorf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/21/17 11:42 PM
Thanks Rainey. No marks on the rib or the buttplate. Buttplate has carvings of deer and other animals but no makers info.

I too thought about Nuemann F. But i think his mark was N in a bugle and not NF.

I think it's nitro proof with 2 3/4 chambers.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/21/17 11:53 PM
I'm pretty confident that NF and an encircled NF represents compensation & liability for Neumannn Frères( Broková dvojka Neumann Frères, Liege). An encircled N also denotes effort by the Gebrüder Neumann. I'll have to dig thru the bowels of the BBS and see if I can ferret out some similar touchmarks. I'm sure you checked the sides of the lugs & the standing breech?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/22/17 12:39 AM



Josef Ritter

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=376875&page=1

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/22/17 03:12 AM
I not sure of the date code / lettre annale, but I seem to recall @ one point hashing out the possibilities of that character?




Cheers,

Raimey
rser
Posted By: skeettx Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/22/17 03:38 AM
1929 perhaps

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/22/17 03:49 PM
I would agree to 1929!

Cheers,
Wolfgang
Posted By: Oberndorf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/22/17 05:24 PM
Thanks everyone for the info.

Raimey - Checked the sides of the lugs and standing breech and did not find any markings. It has Purdey style triple bolting.

Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 12:10 PM
Well then, I'll continue to search. Does the frame have the side frame re-enforcement? On the lettre annale & knowing that assumption is the antithesis of exactitude, what if we assumed that the inspector's touchmark of a P surmounted by a Star, or a Spangled P, rigidly bounds the date to say 1950-1965, what then would you say the character represents?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Oberndorf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 12:34 PM
Thanks. Not sure what you mean by re-enforcement? Is it the bolsters as shown in the last pic in my original post?

The inspectors mark looks like a q with a star over it.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 01:35 PM

Side of the frame similar to the above?


Sure, change the scenario to that of having an inspector's touchmark of a spangled q.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 01:44 PM
Raimey, this is my Emile Warnant with the same mark:



and on the watertable with EW which should mean Emile Warnant:



Emile Warnant was registered with the Liege Proofhouse between 1911 - 1934

The "P" is mirrored but this doesn't make it a "Q" in capital letters as used by the Proofhouse.

What do you mean?

Cheers,
Wolfgang
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 02:44 PM
Here comes a gun from 1937 with the "q" mark:



Cheers,
Wolfgang
Posted By: Oberndorf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 03:21 PM
Thanks Raimey and wolfgang.

The side of the frame is re-enforced I will post a pic later today.
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/23/17 03:42 PM
Oberndorf,
you have posted it already, the last picture in your first post.

Cheers,
Wolfgang
Posted By: PeteM Re: Help ID old Belgium SxS (Pic's) - 05/25/17 12:53 PM
Raimey is correct. The NF was the registered trademark of the Neumann Brothers. Neumann was capable of making a gun of any quality.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

Pete
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