I have decided to use black powder cartridges in a couple of my Damascus hammer guns for the dove opener. Looking for tips on quick field swab before the guns go back into the truck, since it will usually be several hours before the guns can get to a proper cleaning site (i.e., motel bathtub). We will be near Yuma and it will be hot, so drying in the field should not be an issue. I'm thinking about a spray bottle with 1:10 Simple Green/water mix, or 50/50 Windex and rubbing alcohol. Spray the barrels in/out, run a swab or a Tico down the bore, air dry on the tailgate, lightly oil. Thorough cleaning later in the day. Too anal, or just right? Better way to handle this? Thanks.

Those are good. I use straight rubbing alcohol on my percussion revolvers and rifles but those combinations are good also.

Three swabs with windshield washer fluid and two with WD40 will do well enough until hot water thorough cleaning the next day.
I shoot BP trap most weeks and do not have pitting that was not pre-existing in any of my guns.

Windex/ followed by frog lube.

Windex straight has been my "go to" cleaner for 50 years. Works like magic and is not corrosive. I never clean my rifles or shotguns with water. Just an unnecessary hassle. Windex patches until clean, dry patches followed with a non petroleum lube. Presto! Finished. In a dry climate such as Arizona you don't need to worry about cleaning it immediately. Without moisture black powder fowling is not corrosive. Here in the dry Texas Panhandle I've left a rifle dirty for a month before cleaning and never saw any rust, etc.

You can go as simple as saturating the bores with WD 40 until you get back to the room to thoroughly clean it, and you will see no problems. Have left them over night like this with no issues, even in humid environment. Anything that gets rid of moisture will buy time until a thorough cleaning.

SRH

This is the monsoon season in southern AZ, so humidity can be real high. I have seen heavy rain when temps were above 118F, with steam rising from the fields after the rain stopped. Then the temps popped right back up to 118. Just miserable on days like that.

Does WD40 really clean BP? My experience with petroleum products is they don't work on BP very well

Saskbooknut what club in Sask are you shooting BP at?

No, Tamid, it doesn't clean it at all, but it takes aways he ability of leftover b.p. deposits to do harm to the bore, for a short time. I learned that trick at my first NMLRA Nationals shoot, in 1983. Many of the top competitors, if they were going to start back shooting the same gun the next morning, would swab it out good and thoroughly saturate the bore with WD 40. It keeps anything left in there soft, and a couple dry patches will get you right back to shooting next morning.

It basically just removes all the moisture, and "deactivates" the residue.

SRH

I have used all sorts of store bought and home made concoctions for thorough cleaning, over a large part of my lifetime ................ including auto windshield washer fluid ($1/gal), but the absolute best I, and many friends, have ever found is a 3 part mixture of alcohol, peroxide and Murphy's Oil Soap. You mix it in equal parts and keep it in an opaque bottle. Cheap to make, and in many years we have found absolutely no drawbacks to it.

After using it, I dry the bore thoroughly, then RIG it. Bores will stay free of any signs of red for years.

SRH

Tamid, our club is the Saskatoon Muzzle Loading Club. Retired guys shoot casually on Wednesday and the club has Trap shoots on meeting nights, and at a few scheduled shoots. Our annual shoot is on the Labour day weekend.

WD40 is a moisture displacement. Long term
storage needs oil or grease to protect against corrosion.

I shot a lot of flint lock competitively. I have my own mix I use between shots and use prior to heading home for the proper bore cleaning.
I use 1/3 water, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, and not quite a quarter of dish soap. Run patch couple times, the a dry patch followed by wonderlube patch. It works for me and it's my routine
Never had and issue and yes I am anul

My biggest contention is cleaning BP in a gun with some pits in the barrel. How do you ensure you get the pits clean so they don't keep on rusting?

I do a lot of BP Shooting and A lot of us switched to the New WINDEX CRYSTAL RAIN
WHICH DOES NOT HAVE AMMONIA in it. We have had some bore EFFECT problems in the past with rifle bores with the ammonia product. probably WOULD not make any difference in Shotguns however.

Stan, I have had some after rusting in rifles using the ammonia, Peroxide and soap mixture. Have you had anything of that nature/?

I just ordered a couple bottles of the Windex Crystal Rain on Amazon because I don't think I have ever noticed that product in local stores. Seems expensive, but I have been looking for a good, ammonia-free, non-aerosol cleaner for the inside of the truck windows. I had the glass filmed for UV protection (skin cancer), and the film does not like ammonia. Two birds with one stone. Thanks, Stallones.

Other ideas welcomed.

I buy it at LOWEs here and the price is reasonable
Walmart (which I hate) is advertising it for 2.97 online shopping and Lowes is about 7.00

My mixture doesn't use ammonia, Leighton. It uses alcohol, peroxide and M. Oil Soap. No rusting problems with it for many years, but the RIG may be preventing that. Dunno.

SRH

To my mind, after shooting the gun is either going to be clean or not clean, and "field" cleaning goes into the same box as not clean. If there is any residue, it will attract moisture, and especially if the barrel is not thoroughly dried after field cleaning. What's the gain?

Most everything I have is flintlock, and the lock is right out there where you can't miss a thing, crud and all, if rust begins to develop. I have no problem whatsoever leaving my guns 4-6 hours before getting home and doing the job right.

Field clean is better than no cleaning at all. In the desert, it is not practical to flush the barrel with any significant volume of soapy water and rinse water, and it may be a lot more than 4-6 hours before we get to a location where proper cleaning is possible.

Your guns are not going to instantly turn to rust when using black powder. 50 to 60 rounds of 3 dram loads and a wipe of the exterior before putting into the case and you are good to go. I take with me a dish pan, dish soap, use hot water and a snug fitting jag and patches. A good bore brush and a few minutes cleaning until the patches come out clean, dry and oil. I use Slip 2000. You can leave the cleaning until the next day without any harm. The fouling is a bit harder but still cleans easily with the hot water and soap. A English type 12 bore chamber brush works well or a US 10 ga. bore brush with a bit of 4-0 steel wool wrapped around also works well. Soap and hot water quickly dissolve the powder fouling and the brushing loosens any hard deposits. I've been doing this for 45 years and have never had any problem with rust. The plastic dish pan makes the hotel staff much happier that using the bath tub and one can sit outside and enjoy a good cigar while cleaning the tubes.

Stan, I mistyped, Knew it was alcohol , soap and Peroxide and had Ammonia on my mind.
I have it mixed up and used it some, have you not had any after rusting with it?
I will monitor it again. Are you using Soft Soap?

Murphy's Oil Soap, Leighton. It is a vegetable based soap. Don't know if that matters or not, but it has worked for me for a long time.

No rusting problems. However, I remembered that I omitted mentioning a step in my cleaning process. After the mixture is used and the bore is dried with patches as much as possible I drench the bore with a moisture displacer like WD 40. I then dry it again and use the RIG.

Sorry I forgot to mention that.

SRH

The old "Moose Milk" formula of Murphy's oil soap, Hydrogen Peroxide and alcohol goes back forever in muzzle loading circles and it works well. Some experienced rusting after because they thought the Murphy's was oil. It is not and the bores must be dry and oiled after cleaning. The hot soap and water works quickly and gets results much faster. Tight jag and patches pump the water up into the bores and washes the fouling out quickly. It takes me all of 10 minutes to completely clean my guns. 2 or 3 inches of the muzzles are in the water and when clean dry very quickly. Do not forgo the black powder experience just because you are afraid to clean. It is very easy and a great amount of fun hunting or clay shooting with black.

I once had a disaster trying to clean black powder residue out of a gun with a long handled brush in my wife's kitchen sink. People have suggested I use a coffee can of hot soapy water to clean the barrels as described above.

My question: what keeps the water from getting into the gap between the ribs and the barrels on an old double that may not be water tight at the muzzles?...Geo

Answer: Nothing.

Ever hunted in the rain?

Most dwellings are warm enough to quickly dry the barrels and if one is concerned, a bit of gently warming with a hair dryer would solve the problem. My guns do not have any gaps at the muzzle or loose ribs and I've not had a problem with rust. Keith is correct on hunting in rainy conditions. I keep a towel to wipe dry my guns and carry on. If they get really wet, I just remove the locks or bottom plate on a box lock gun and let them dry. Lightly oil and reassemble.

Equal parts Murphy's Soap, rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide works very well on the gun and cleans your hands as well and is very popular with shooters using BP for guns in Cowboy Action Shooting. Give the barrels a couple of squirts, let sit for a few minutes and then push wadded up paper towels down the barrels and repeat as necessary. Usually 2 or 3 passes is enough.

While waiting a couple of hours or a day to clean the guns won't hurt them, I have found that cleaning them right after I am done shooting seems to make the clean up be easier then waiting until the next day.

I do my best to stay inside out of the rain. I've had my turn in the barrel with rain, snow, icy rain, and sleet but in my declining years it has occurred to me that I could just wait and go tomorrow...Geo

To keep my wife and dog happy I always wear latex gloves when cleaning my blackpowder guns. Once the goo has blackened the hands it is devilish to remove. I think it penetrates the skin's pores.

That's incorrect. The old formula for "moose milk" is 70-80% water and 20-30% water soluble oil, such as Ballistol or Key Cut.

BTW, the mixture I mentioned was called "PAM".

SRH

If my shotgun gets wet, which it does regularly hunting waterfowl, I get home and blast it down with WD40. Then wipe that off with an oily rag with 3 in 1 oil.

Best product for field cleaning black powder is Ballistol, a cleaning rod and cloth patches (or folded paper towels) and a good bore brush.

one part liquid dish wash soap with ten parts water and a wire brush works for me for removing heavy bp fouling after about six rounds on the skeet range...so one can keep on shootin...

joe, going to wedding in memphis soon. never been there...any advise?

Ballistol and water mix, "moose milk." I'd add a bit more Ballistol than 20%. I believe Ballistol is mineral oil, but don't know.

I flush my MLs with warm soapy water, let it set for about 5 minutes, then apply moose milk. After drying out the moose milk with cleaning patches, I spray WD 40 to displace water. This works good on ML guns, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on a break action gun.

Ballistol is good stuff. They make a BP cleaning substance; can't remember the name of it, but it's supposed to be really effective.

The best stuff I have ever used was the old GI Bore Cleaner made for cleaning corrosive ammo residue, it is dark colored and smells like sheep dip, almost impossible to find these days and I am down to my last can.

I guess you can use all those additives but room temperature water is all the solvent you need to remove black powder fouling. Follow that with patches until dry and then wipe with your favorite quality rust preventative lubrication. I have been using this for years to clean my muzzle loading rifle and have tried all the others. Chemist involved with manufacturing black powder for a career tells us the same thing. Water is all you need and those other mixes work because they have water.

Don't forget to take your banjo Ed.


But what does this question have to do with double guns?

joe, going to wedding in memphis soon. never been there...any advice?

But what does this question have to do with double guns?
[/quote]

Shotgun wedding?


____________________________
Graceland
https://youtu.be/01fy0UtBTW4

Bring a gun or two or three....

jOe, have heard memphis aint safe...sorta like a mini no...

Beale Street is neat music theme venue to see. Peabody Hotel where they bring down the Mallard ducks everyday to their water pool by elevator and march 'em through the lobby. The Pyramid Bass Pro is their biggest, finest store.

Germantown is a nice safe area with tons of nice restaurants and shopping in Eastern Memphis. Check out my brother's new restaurant concepts "Babalu", one in Midtown/Overton Square and another in Germantown. Great trendy food.

Memphis Gun Club is a great place to shoot a round of Sporting Clays.
http://www.shoottn.com/contact.html
JR

It is interesting, but sort of depressing to see how complicated this has been purported to be.

I shoot high-end, custom, long-range, target rifles (ie., guns where any corrosion would be criminal!). I also shoot bp in damasacus English doubles for hunting, and I would NEVER do some of the things that are reported here..

If you want to clean in the field (not necessary even for several hours in a "humid" AZ), then do it completely. With any breech loader it is super simple and fast.

Use straight, dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen hydroxide, or plain water. Your choice. Nothing else. On patches, pushed through the barrel on a brush or jag. A half dozen will suffice for each barrel at most. Then dry, then oil. DONE.

Keep the soap, the hydrogen peroxide, the mystery oils, the soluble oils, etc, etc at home for use on your pets, or tractors or tonsils, but not on your guns.

This is not hard, not super critical, not something that takes tons of gear or preparation. H20. It works. Every single time.

john: thanks for tips re memphis...

That is your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. But, that does not make it gospel. I have been shooting and competing with very accurate BP rifles since 1983. Three of my rifles have won state championships in offhand and bench rest categories, numerous times. Some of the solutions you mention as things you would never use are, in fact, some I suggested. My rifles are as accurate after all these years as they have ever been. I have a .45 cal. round ball competition rifle that will shoot 5 shot 5/8" 100 yd. groups, and I can prove it. You do not maintain that level of accuracy in a BP rifle by doing a poor job of cleaning it. You may shoot ultra accurate long range rifles of some genre, and black powder shotguns, but that does not mean you know all there is to know about BP rifle cleaning.

If this is all it takes to get you depressed, you are much to be pitied. Use your plain water all you want, nobody said it won't clean BP fouling out of a gun. But, don't be bad-mouthing others who have many years experience maintaining accurate BP rifles.

SRH

SRH, these methods are so needlessly complicated that they discourage people from ever taking up BP in the first place, never mind using it in the field. Why make it so needlessly complicated?

This also furthers the internet myth that bp fouling is somehow ridiculously corrosive. It is not. It will generate rust in very damp or wet conditions but it's not something that will eat your gun in an hour or three. There is simply way too much hype about cleaning blackpowder. It is simple, cheap, fall-off-the-log easy.

And I never said I was preaching gospel either. Just trying to make it a little less daunting for those who have yet to go there and try it.

My experience agrees with Brent.

There is nothing at all complicated about using the mixture I suggested, and that I use. I am anal about my rifles bore cleanliness, I admit, but over the years I have gone through the whole menu of cleaning methods, from your plain water method to what I now use. And, I prefer the mixture. I've used other methods and ended up with a red bore a few days later. No more.

The way you worded your post was disparaging of other's methods besides your own. That's why I suggested you thought it was "gospel". Again, nobody is saying water won't clean a BP bore. It will. I, and hordes of others, just think there are advantages to other methods.

SRH

The point of the question is cleaning and there are many ways to accomplish the task easy and effective. Plain water or various solutions all get the job done. I use plain water to clean my muzzle loader's at a rendezvous or in the field. I favor hot water when the opportunity of a camp fire presents itself. My breech loaders clean completely with a solution of water and water soluble oil. A few patches, dry and oil...done. After a heavy day with the shotguns the dish soap and water make quick work of cleanup. The thing is to get people to enjoy a black powder experience and not over clean or worry about rusting their fine firearms. With common sense it just does not happen. When it is time for a strip and clean, a light coat of oil on the internal parts is sufficient. Any fouling that gets into the action will setup on top of the oil film and not cause problem. (45 years of cap and ball revolver shooting have proved this to me). On breech loaders, the seal of the case or hull and the cartridge rims provide a pretty good stop of blowback powder residue. Heavily used guns a strip and clean once a year is about right. There is just no reason to completely strip the firearm every time it is used with black powder. Load some black powder and give it a try. Fun, effective and not a chore to clean up. Your fine firearms will not turn into a pile of rust and you will get to experience what shooting was like a hundred and fifty years ago.

I agree with Eric except when it comes to revolvers. For years I shot pistol on the national range at Friendship. After a day of shooting [ around a 140 shots ] the inside parts were quite dirty and we would completely dissemble the pistol. I now shoot smoke on occasion in my Parker or Remington hammer guns and it's always fun. Everyone in my squad wants to try it, and the clean up only takes about 10 minutes as Eric described. I do hot soapy water with first a tornado brush then patches, clean hot water with patches, dry patch, WD-40 soaked patch, then a oiled patch.