My 16 ga WJ Jeffery with 27 in barrels has stock dimensions of LOP 14.5; DAC 1.5 ; and DAH 1 & 15/16ths. If stock was bent down at heel by 3/16ths (increase DAH) how much would it affect (increase) the DAC? Also has 1/8 in cast off.
I shoot best with DAC of 1.5 in, but the DAH is just not enough
Would like to hear some suggestions on whom would be best to do this and some of your experiences with stock bending to increase drop.
bending is risky...why no just sand wood down 3/16?
Assuming the stock has good grain flow, that sounds like it should be no problem to bend. The drop at comb will be increased by approximately 1/3 the amount of increase at heel.
Steve
Although we normally refer to the drop as drop at heel, the truly important factor is where the butt fits the shoulder. Simply sanding wood off the top of the stock does not change this point so would be simply an exercise of futility & would devalue the gun. Use a bit of common sense..
2-, the stated goal here is to reduce the drop at heel and not to change the fit of the butt to the shoulder...common sense would suggest that reducing the drop to 2 1/4" only, might actually make the gun more attractive to others, and hence, increase its value...
Sanding or filing the top line of the stock is a last resort method. Much more work involved than a simple stock bend and it will require the stock being refinished as well. It will also reduce the size of the butt which is likely already on the small side do to this being a small bore British gun.
How much dah are you looking for? SKB gave you a good approximation of how much a dah change will make to the dac. If you dac is too low after bend for dah removing the cast off will help. I had a stock that was bent down and had cast off bent but the cast off ended up being too much. Had to have it rebent to reduce the cast off. Good wood is amazing to see how much it will bend in the hands of a good stock man.
Another thing to look at is where the pitch will be after bending. As I get older I notice pitch more than I use to notice it. Wrong pitch gives me a little face slap at the dac. The best way to know is to use a pattern plate after bending to see if your poi is correct as well as the stock fitting you properly.
I had a Scottish boxlock bent from 1 7/8" to 2 1/2" and it did wonders for my shooting. It is now one of my favorite skeet guns. Go for it!
After bending the stock how is the pitch angle preserved to its original setting? The apparent and easy way would be wedges under the pad or plate. Is there another way?
After bending the stock how is the pitch angle preserved to its original setting? The apparent and easy way would be wedges under the pad or plate. Is there another way?
Attach a 1/4" spacer, cut the pitch, replace the pad with a thinner one.
Obviously, when you start playing with stock lines in permanent, or semi permanent ways, you are moving away from "average" dimensions and fit.
The next guy may well want it back to the original shape, and any chopping and filing makes that impossible.
After bending the stock how is the pitch angle preserved to its original setting? The apparent and easy way would be wedges under the pad or plate. Is there another way?
Ducks Rx is proposing a very modest 3/16" increase in the drop at heel by bending his stock. With such a small change, the risk of damage to the stock is minimal, and the change in pitch would be almost imperceptible. One could use a buttplate that was slightly tapered toward the top if the pitch had to remain precisely where it was.
Use a bit of common sense..
Asking Ed Good to use a bit of common sense is like asking a blind man to win the Olympic Gold Medal in Trap Shooting... with a BB gun.
I'm confident all this depends on from which discipline you come from.
And what kind of shotguns you shoot.
ATA guys? Never met a stock alteration they didn't like.
Krieghoff and Kolar guys? A multitude of stocks ready to bolt on are available. And swaps are common.
Beretta 600 series'? A multitude available
Browning Citori series? Endless
When you start irreversibly altering old stocks on old guns, Well, it's a one way street.
And it gets expensive fast.
Since so many are short to start anyway, adding a tapered pad system, and bending the hand can get someone most of the way to their desired dimensions without file work.
a good wood man can scab on wood to the comb and to the butt wid out much too doo...
nonsense only to those who do not wish to keep it simple, eliminate risk inherent in bending wood and of course keeping cost down...
plus, sanding and scabbing allows for lots of trial and error...not so bending...
ho hum...
Yep, it'll be fine
I'd only give the slightest creedence to Ed's comment if he had said something like, " After I essentially steal a gun from your widow, because she was scared of it, and I had convinced her of it's low value because the stock had been cut down,...Then I could scab somewhat matching pieces of walnut on the chopped stock, and make a little money off somebody."
Then I might agree, because well, "The money in guns is made on the buy, not the sell."
But there is no collectible shotgun, of average rarity, that sells for more with a scabbed upon stock, than one that was original.
so zapper, you cant respond to valid points made in my last post, so instead, you fantazie a negative scenario, featuring me cheating some widow...
like some others here, your resorting to personal attack, instead of discussing the topic of the thread, just weakens whatever argument you may choose to advance...
an drew, if you wish to participate, suggest you search your lifted photo files and come up with something that is more appropriate to this discussion...
like maybe this:
http://www.bkwebstergunsmith.com/monte-carlo-comb-conversion.html
You are right Ed. I needn't have painted such an unflattering depiction of the concept of "Buy low, sell High".
My vote is to go for the bend. I have had two stocks bent to my dimensions and was very pleased with the results of both. In the example that Ed provided, the comb splice is very visible and I as the owner would not be happy with the aesthetics of that result.
bending is certainly a valid alternative to walnut stock alteration...
but, it is not without its risks, both during the bending process and later on, if the wood decides to return to its natural form...
ever notice that walnut is not popular for making bent wood furniture?
watch this...an old time gunsmith at work...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZBtS_WlcG4
Ed's right....bending stocks is not without risk. I've had several bent with no problem, but I did have one crack at the wrist. And, a skilled gunsmith did the bending. They can break, so bending is a roll of the dice, in my humble opinion. Having said that, it's a risk I would, and likely will take again.
2-, the stated goal here is to reduce the drop at heel and not to change the fit of the butt to the shoulder...common sense would suggest that reducing the drop to 2 1/4" only, might actually make the gun more attractive to others, and hence, increase its value...
Give it up, ed. You've been lost as a ball in high weeds ever since the above post on page one. The topic of the discussion is how to
increase the DAH, not reduce it. Why don't you stick to giving lessons on how to use an acetylene torch?
SRH
I will say this One More Time. Also I will type real slow so even those who are slow readers can follow it.
There is absolutely "NO" part of the human anatomy which touches the wood at the top of the heel. Therefore scraping wood off the top of the heel does nothing to alter the fit of the gun. The purpose of increasing the drop at the heel is in reality to lower the entire butt, thus changing how it fits the shoulder.
Scraping wood from the top of the butt will not do this as nothing fits there, you will only have less wood projecting at the top. Bending the stock down will alter this fit.
i think stan is right...im goin to bed...night night all...
Bending is the cheapest way to go - not adding wood. Rest the gun on a table with everything from the trigger guard back off the table. Put two 25# shot bags on the barrels, two heat lamps next to the wrist with a sock dipped in cooking oil tied on. Measure to the floor. Add one [ sometimes two ] shot bags on the butt. The stock will bend, if it's going to, without forcing it. I've never cracked one using this method. If possible set up a stop so the stock will only bend so far. It's something anyone with any common sense can do.
I have shaved the comb on several shotguns over the years to reduce DROP AT FACE, which is all that really matters, by starting about 2" in front of the butt heel, and with a very small block plane, removing very small slivers of wood moving forward toward the nose of the comb, then finishing the final tune with coarse (100 grit wet-or-dry) sandpaper, feathering the work back to the butt for a clean, almost straight line that is imperceptible after the progressive finer grits to a final polish and refinish.
This works great because you don't alter the butt pad or plate. This is also assuming there is enough wood to begin with and you don't need a whole lot. Anything radical is a whole 'nother thing...
JR
you altered the gun, to make it work better for you?...and you did it all by yourself, without paying for professional help?
the horra...the absolute horra...