I was reading in McIntosh's book on A.H.Fox guns and he mentions that it is doubtful that Philadelphia Arms ever made an ejector gun. However, I just located a B-grade ejector gun that was in the hands of a serious collector for years. Unfortunately he is no longer with us, but I am curious what a gun like this would be worth? The gun appears to be original from muzzle to the rear of the stock for the exception of a pad. I don't know when those pads were first put on these guns, so maybe that is even original to the gun. It has a monte carlo stock, ejectors, and a mid bead. All appear original to the gun. The gun shows normal wear for a gun of it's age that was well taken care of but used showing a good amount of case colors in the more protected areas.
In my opinion, a little added condition would add more value to a PAC gun than would ejectors. We would like to see a picture of the B Grade with Monte Carlo stock.
Possible that philly maybe reworked the gun later on in its life? Or ejectors are aftermarket. Since there is no knowledge of ejector systems in PAC guns, how do we know that the system employed is original or not? Is it an early fox system? A later fox (commonly seen today) system?
Philadelphia Arms Co. had Max Wirsing's August 16, 1904, Patent No. 767,621 for ejectors. The order form in the 1905 Philadelphia Arms Co. catalog had a line for ejectors. Would love to see some good pictures of this gun. There were several firms offering after market ejectors during the first decade of the Twentieth Century.
Not exactly sure how to include pictures, but the gun has a patent date of aug. 16 1904 which matches the M.wirsing patent. I am guessing this is proof that Philadelphia Arms did make at least one ejector gun. How do I include pictures?
I was excited for a second until I realized. All my Phil. Arms guns have the same date stamped on the water table. Back to the research.
Yes, the H.H. Fox Patent No. 767,557 covering the lock mechanism, was also granted on Aug. 16, 1904. The original patent assigned to Philadelphia Arms Co. was Ansley H. Fox's No. 714,688 for a bolting mechanism. Ansley filed the application for that patent on January 17, 1902, when he was still employed by Winchester Repeating Arms Co. which I suspect caused problems and the reason it was never used. So, Ansley filed the patent application for the lock mechanism in his brother's name, Harry Hunter Fox, and the ejector design under Max Wirsing's name. Harry still lived at home in Baltimore with their Father Addison C. Fox and his new wife. Max lived nearby in Baltimore.
I can't load pictures here since the Photobucket extortion, but I can post them on the A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. web site.
AHFCA@comcast.net
Shutterfly is asking us for a login.
https://pix.sfly.com/MHueoihttps://pix.sfly.com/T4fiT9https://pix.sfly.com/5Oj7grhttps://pix.sfly.com/DvHRqfhttps://pix.sfly.com/vnHJ_rhttps://pix.sfly.com/eyGe11https://pix.sfly.com/xdTWH2Sorry, but you will need to click on the link to see the pictures but I hope this helps. Those of you that know a bit more about the different kid of ejectors out there. this should help you help me.
Thanks guys, but are they original ejectors or are they aftermarket? Can you tell?
Wow, that may be Ansley's PAC pigeon gun. I don't remember if the serial number was shown in the pictures. What is the number? My B is number 873.
Do you know what his Pigeon Gun's serial number was?
About the only thing I can say is that those ejectors don't look anything like the Max Wirsing patent. I'm thinking that if you were to disassemble the forearm you might find the ejector mechanism housed in a box on the underside of the forearm iron stamped M & W PAT.
I recall being told about this gun long ago, but the serial number I was told fell well out of the range of the 76 Philadelphia Arms Co. guns I've recorded -- 59 to 1846.