Was looking over their website and see size 7 in 20 gauge. Anyone use size 7's on Grouse/Pheasant? Always figured size 6 was too large and size 7.5 was a tad small for late season birds and thinking about picking up a case to try. Heck, didn't even know they made a size 7.

Ha I was in the same boat as you earlier this year. I needed some 2.5 inch shells and the store I go to only had Gamebore 7's for the 20ga. They knock birds down and so far no birds have been shredded! Try them you'll probably like them.

I used 20ga RST #6 2 1/2" 7/8oz paper on wild pheasants opening week in South Dakota, very satisfied with the results most birds dead in the air. My Fox liked the paper shells and fiber wads.

RA, Gamebore 7's--being British--are like our 7 1/2's. Gamebore 6's are slightly larger than our 7's. About 6 2/3.

Tut, I use Brit 6's on pheasants, although almost always something larger in the tight barrel. Either those or 7's are pretty much all I've used on prairie grouse (early season) when I've hunted them. I have some RST 7's in 16ga, but have not tried them on pheasants yet. Back when I had an article assignment that I knew would involve the opportunity to shoot a lot of preserve pheasants, I loaded up a bunch of 3/4 oz 7's for my 28ga, choked IC/M. (Essentially same pellet count as an ounce of 6's.) After flat missing the first bird I shot at, I bagged 27 straight, including a couple true doubles. But I'll quickly add that I think I would have lost at least a couple of those birds had they been wild ones. Needed some good dog work to put them in the bag.

I've not tried the RST #7 shot loads but anything made by RST that I've ever used was first rate.

That said, I shot handloaded 1 1/8 oz nickel plated #7 from (Ballistic Products) @ 1200 fps in a 12 ga for several years as a first bbl load for pheasant (.010" choke). It worked great on crossing & quartering shots where you could get shots into the front of the bird but on straight away birds it lacked penetration resulting in cripples that the dog had to chase down. I went back to the B&P High Pheasant 1 1/16 oz #5 for Pheasant & have stayed with that.

The nickel #7 I had seemed soft to me comparing it to Lawrence Magnum 7 1/2 shot so that might have been part of the problem.

I've shot a few grouse with 1 oz of the same nickel #7 & it worked fine but I could see no advantage over the usual 1 oz # 7 1/2 load

I used RST #7's on quail and dove over the last couple of years. Anything bigger than a dove/quail and I drop down to #6 and #5.

I don't use RST's, but handload lots of 7's and am hoarding the last of a flat of Winchester Heavy Dove loads that were offered in 7's. I find them an ideal shot size for both 12 and 20 for everything from quail to grouse (both ruffs and prairie). I consider them a tad light for wild pheasant but good for preserve birds.

7's are my preferred shot for dove and wild quail. Seems to be significantly less crippling than smaller shot. I have heard this size shot is often used in International trap events.

Tut,
I've used RST #8's for woodcock and grouse, but recently switched to #7's and like them more. I've used thier #5's for pheasants in North Dakota and they worked very well for me. My standard now is RST 2 1/2 1 oz. paper #7's in the right barrel and 2 1/2 paper #5's in the left barrel in 12 ga. and 7/8 oz. in the 20 ga. Both are choked the usual IC/MOD and fewer cripples. I've checked with Morris at RST and was told that his #7's are true #7's.
On long pokes with the left barrel, it's nice to have the #5's in there.
Karl

Tut,

I use RST #7s in the first barrel at the start of the season for pheasant and quail. They work well on early season birds and are great for quail. I usually hunt in areas holding quail and pheasant.

Ken

I've used RST 7's on grouse and roosters, and handloaded 7's as well. As previously stated, I've always had high marks for RST loads. The
first rooster I killed with my French 16 was 7/8 of 7's , a January in Kansas. I think even Larry would consider that "late season."

7's are a versatile, somewhat underutilized shot size in my opinion.

Mike

When we had a decent population of big tough native ringneck pheasants, I found that #6's killed with much more certainty than #7 1/2's. And later in the season when the birds tended to flush further out, I would switch to #5 shot, at least in the left barrel. I've never used #7 RST's and have never seen bags of #7 shot being sold in my area for reloading, but would like to try it on grouse. A little jump in the size of a lead sphere makes a big difference in kinetic energy at reasonable ranges.

Average pellet size difference between 7 and 7.5 being about 0.05mm to 0.1mm other than personal preference (I like rounded odd numbers) what practical difference is there? It would make more sense to have average pellet size expressed in mm instead of arbitrary numbers. While easier to tell the difference this can not be implemented because people would be less confused realize they need fewer pellet sizes and therefore buy less ammunition.

Wrong again Jagermeister. The size difference between American #7 and #7 1/2 shot is more like .18 mm

Since you have a problem with those complicated fractional numbers, maybe you could talk some manufacturer into producing a line of even numbered metric shot for easily confused dolts who do not own even one lousy double gun and don't hunt. It should be very popular among droolers and tire-kickers.

I have tried RST's 2 1/2" 1oz. #7 spreader shells in my right barrel. RST loads great shells, however, the #7s just didn't do the job well for me. To many running cripples on pheasants. I went with Polywad English 2 1/2" 1oz. #6 spreaders in the right barrel and the problem was solved. My gun is a 1930 vintage C.G. Bonehill SLE 12 ga. with factory 2 3/4" chambers and is choked Mod. right tube and Full in the left barrel. I always have an RST 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz. #5 in the left tube, just in case. Last season I went to the rear trigger more than once and boy, the #5s knock a pheasant down with authority.

The problem is due to the fact that different countries producing shot shells often use different shot sizes assigning same or similar arbitrary shot numbers.
Shot size does make a big difference. I remember when I picked up my first shotgun and few boxes of shells some Winchester XX and Remington Peters. Not knowing anything about shot sizes I learned that red shells with XX were more effective while yellow ones weren't as good. Later I learned that Winchester were buffered #4 and Remingtons were 7.5.

You're not in Warsaw trying to steal a kishka anymore Jagermeister. This is the U.S. of A. and we are discussing American loads produced by RST.

As you can see from this chart, #7 1/2 shot is mainly an American product.

http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

The information you provided is way off the mark once again, and the excuse you gave for being so inaccurate is just silly or dishonest. I'm not sure why you feel the need to post such absolute crap here when you don't own even one lousy double gun. Too bad you refuse to tell us the answer to that.

Thank you for providing that chart. I didn't know Europeans standardized their size into "European Size". In the past shot loaded in shells form Russia, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy..... did not show this uniformity.

I like #7 shot

I have used size 7 magnum shot for both quail and pheasant with good result, though I do not suggest that 7 is good shot for other than close pheasant.

I did take pheasant with 16ga 1 oz #7 loads from an old 1898 side by side in South Dakota this year. All were shot under 25 yards.

My favorite hand load for desert quail 20ga is 3/4oz load of #7s. Once I tried them the number of running cripples dropped off considerably from 7.5 and 8 shot loads. Don't know that I would favor them for pheasants but they were excellent on gray partridge in Idaho and Sharptails too.

Mike, Jan in KS does qualify as "late season". And sometimes, depending on the conditions (a bunch of fresh, fluffy snow overnight will often make even late season roosters sit extremely tight), late season birds will sit as tight or tighter than opening day birds. But usually it's not a bad idea to go to larger shot, heavier loads, and tighter chokes because of two other late season conditions: 1. A lot of early season roosters, especially if there was a good hatch, aren't even fully grown by opening day. Not even fully feathered. A couple months AFTER opening day, they've grown up. And they've also grown fatter than opening day birds, because putting on fat is nature's way of keeping them warm in the winter. 2. Hunting in cold weather, you may not have put on fat, but you've almost certainly put on warmer clothes so YOU keep warm. Those clothes can slow you down a bit when you go to mount your gun. Playing those odds . . . while a light load of 7's might kill every rooster you encounter late season, they're not the choice I'd make. I'd go to both a larger shot size and a heavier load. And at least one barrel with more choke.

Larger shot have more "Killing Effect" due to two things. 1st the larger diameter punches a bigger hole. 2nd the heavier weight gives greater penetration.
Hole size of spheres is proportional to the square of their diameters. Weight, assuming identical material, is proportional to the cube of their diameters.
In US sizes a #7 should measure .100" in diameter with a # 7 1/2 going .095". Thus (.1/.095) squared = 1.108 so the #7 is approx 11% larger in diameter than a #7 1/2. (.1/.095) cubed = 1.166, thus the #7 is approx 17% heavier. In comparison we are obviously talking of two different shot sizes with the #7 being larger, heavier & thus having more killing power.
British #7 is very close in size to US #7 1/2 , thus having the effect of the smaller size shot. Shot sizes & charge weights need always to consider both adequate penetration of the individual pellets & also adequate pattern density to insure hits on the bird of a given size at anticipated range.
Thusly #8 & #4 shot would not be considered interchangeable on the same birds at the same ranges. The same applies, although to a much lesser degree, when comparing US versus British #7 shot.

I've read that concerning pellet density, somewhere around 260 pellets ensure adequate pattern density in the pattern. That would put #7's about right for a 1 oz. load in 12 ga.
Karl

Depends on the size of the bird in question, and the choke. Karl, are you talking about the number of pellets in the LOAD or in the standard 30" pattern circle? 260 in the load is about what you get in 1 1/8 oz 6 shot. But you could also get it with less than 3/4 oz 8 shot.

About 35 years ago, two friends and I bought 1 ton of #7 Lawrence Magnum shot, which has equated to a lifetime supply for me. I use it on all upland birds sans pheasant. I preferred #7 35 years ago and nothing has changed except the number of bags that I have remaining.

Of the four shot sizes commonly used for upland shooting, those being #6, #7, #7.5, and #8 I wonder why even consider #7.5 shot?
The shot sizes on either side of 7.5 are superior to 7.5. With #8 shot you get a denser pattern and with #7 shot you get larger and heavier shot, both being far superior to 7.5 on both accounts.

In answer to your question Tom, I use RST #7 a lot of the time for grouse and woodcock, often using #8 in the right barrel and #7 in the left earlier in the season and later when the foliage is down and birds often flush farther out I might use #7 in both barrels for the energy carrying capacity of the larger shot.
YMMV

So, riddle me this...

How many times have we read that Brit #6 is 270 to the ounce?

All the noted scribes seem to think that's so, but show me anything 270/oz. here http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

Perhaps the nice neat little divisions in diameter aren't actually the case? The chart represents calculated values or actual measurement of commercial pellets? Or what?

Brit 6 (Am 7, or 'thereabouts') works peachy on overhead driven pheasants. It's not so peachy up the tailpipe of a going away bird. You might as well throw rocks.

For pheasant, I like #6 I’m the first barrel, #5 in the second. Always 1oz (or recently 1 1/16 oz) RST falcon. If the bird presents a crossing or rising, going away shot, I reach for the #5 tube when I can remember to do so. Just yesterday two roosters presented a rising, quartering, long shot. I fired #6 at the closer bird, which rocked him the air, but he continued on to the nearby shelter belt. I think the #5’s would have knocked him down.

Larry,
I use #7's in the right barrel choked IC, and #5's in the left barrel choked MOD for woodcock and grouse. If I'm after pheasants, then it's #5's in both barrels. I use RST's 2 1/2 papers in 1 oz. for the 12 ga., 7/8 oz. for the 20 ga. The 28 ga. gets #8's in the right and #6's in the left, but I think that #7's would work great for the 28 ga.
Karl

Hum...

On Hallowell's chart 1.62 grains times 270 equals one ounce.

So, something isn't right.

Either the pellet count (292) is wrong or the diameter, or maybe we're talking lead with Antimony.

Q: Are real, actual, English 6's 270 to the ounce or not?

Jones, don't know about Hallowell. However, my Eley Shooter's Diary--and you'd think Eley, since they make British shotshells, would know what they're talking about--has a nice little chart showing 1 oz 6 = 270 pellets. I do not know on what that number is based. But I've killed a fair number of wild American roosters over dogs using Brit 6's in Kent Gamebore's Pure Gold 30 gram (1 1/16 oz) in open choked R barrels, around .005-.006 constriction. Being the curious type, I've opened a couple of those loads and done a pellet count. "Book" total is 287. I get about 275. Checking the pattern at 25 yards, I'm putting about 230 hits in a 30" circle. That's not a load I'd pick for pheasants at 40 yards, but I don't shoot many at that range. And if I do take a poke at one, I have a heavier surprise for them in the tighter choked L barrel.

Woops! Intended to merge the above with Jones' quote. Operator error!

So, Kent's #6 is a little oversize. This is assuming there's really 1 1/6 ounce there, and that they did correct their volumetric measure for whatever density the stuff is.

Holding it to a few percent variation is actually pretty good.

Expanding this discussion further, why are there still differences in shot size internationally? Cartridges are standard, how come we can't agree on shot size?

Even if the goofy metric system plays a part here, pellets per some arbitrary unit volume should all have the same gauge number.

Somebody needs to market an American size 5 1/2 pellet at 195 to the ounce. If we can have a bazillion similar rifle calibers, why not a 5 1/2 pellet? I predict instant success.

Now that's funny!

I agree, a #5 1/2 would be an instant hit, and would generate tons of raving testimonials to its' magical effectiveness and perfect pattern density... no matter what choke or velocity or bore launched it.

Jones, I remember doing a pellet count on a Kent load (not Gamebore) of 6's. Came out in the 190's/oz range. And they were visibly larger than 6's. (Talking US shot sizes here.) Maybe not intended to be so, but they were actually 5 1/2's.

I don't shoot a lot of them in a year, but do use the RST #7's as a second shot in my old Flues. Mostly in more open areas if I suspect more of a chance at a Grouse than a Woodcock. Though based on my guessing ability I should just say I use them as my second shot at either regularly

Great pattern out of either barrel, choked roughly SK and IC. You can buy a mixed case and try them. I have shot a little of everything that way. Giving the pattern board or Sporting clays course a workout in the summer helps pass time until sesason.....

I'm using Kent 20ga TM 6s over decoys with satisfactory results.