I understand that quality glass reduces eye strain and I believe this is true but is it difficult to get the glass that clear that the price of these items rivals diamonds? My thinking is that the most valuable element is the clarity of the glass. Please understand I am asking this question for an education on the subject not to show any disrespect for those who have made such expenditures. Where would, say a Tasco World Class scope with Swarovski glass be on the scale with an actual Swarovski? Thank you.

I'm old an can't see as well as I use to.

yes

This depends on the use you are going to put it to. In the south of the UK, most of our stalking is woodland/farmland and dawn & dusk. Deer often appear in the very first or last moments of legal light and premium glass can give you the identification and shot when cheaper glass would have failed.
However, in the Highland the stalking is more day time: getting up to high ground before dawn or extracting a deer in the dark is not really a option. Here, good but not premium glass is just fine.
I have two deer rifles, one equipped with Zeiss Conquest and one with a Hawke Endurance, very much opposite ends of the stalking spectrum. Both are surprising good but the latter seems to lose me 5-15 minutes depending on the light conditions.
My stalking binos are Vortex Viper HD 10x42. They are robust, have a fantastic warranty and a good depth of focus so you can scan without constantly fiddling with focus but last light becomes a real challenge. I have used Zeiss top end on occasion and find that I fiddle with focus endlessly.
Would I pay 3-5 times as much for premium glass? Right now, probably not, money too tight, but if I was D&D stalking every week I would probably do so after a few more frustrating outings!
IF I could find a really objective (no pun intended!), back to back review, I would definitely buy a compromise make at about £1000, not £2500.

Quality of the glass, quality of the coatings, design of the lenses, self-imposed manufacturing tolerances, and the ruthlessness of the manufacturer’s quality control department.

Its worth it and yes there is a big difference. Case in point was several years ago while I was at the Outer Banks. Had a Shrimp Boat offshore probably 800 yards out. Three people grabbed their binoculars. One has a set of Leupold 10 power, the other Bushness 10 power (10 x 40mm). The last person (me) grabbed a pair of Swarovski 7x50 (3 less in magnification). The only person who could make out the name of the boat at that distance was me with the Swarovski. They were that different.

Ditto on a deer stand this past weekend. Had a friend with Leupold 3x9 power in a box blind at 645 am and it was just breaking daylight. Doe came out, 8 point came out following the doe in a Rye field. At 75 yards he saw two blobs, one small, one big. The deer walked through the rye field. I was on the other end. 5 minutes later I saw the deer, saw clearly it was an 8 point and shot it. My Scope was a 3X9 Swarovski.

I look at high end optics as something special and something that you buy once and it lasts for 25 years unless you beat the hell out of it.

Toby hit the nail on the head. It's how badly you feel you need the extra minutes a day of use. When I hunted deer regularly, my rifles all wore Leupolds. I tried some of the European high end scopes on friend's rifles, but I never felt really handicapped with Leupold scopes. Kahles was probably the brightest scope I ever looked through.

My binos were bought used, but I never really knew how good a pair could be until I got them. They are Fujinon, and have no means for focus. Once you focus each eyepiece for that eye, they are always in focus at any distance, from up close to infinity. I didn't even know that feature existed until I got them. Now, I wouldn't have anything else.

SRH

This is it. Exactly.

Another consideration is mechanics. There are scads of sub-$1k scopes with decent glass but poor mechanics. You shouldn't have to rap on an optic to kinda, sorta believe an adjustment you just made. There are very few sub-$1k scopes with bankable turrets that will pass box tests as many times as you perform the test.

But not everyone will ever touch a scope setting once "zeroed" at some preferred distance, with some preferred load.

There are no free lunches. Everything costs. Mechanics. Range of adjustment. Glass. Variable magnification. Reticle. Focal plane. Do your homework so to make conscious, deliberate compromises. Or..........just spend the money, alot of it.

I tend to use Leupold VX3 scopes, not top of the line but quite good in my opinion. I am spoiled when it comes to binos after buying a good set of Ziess about ten years ago. Retail price was several times 1K but I paid a small fraction of that by purchasing them through a friend in the business. There is no going back for me now, I am sold on good glass. For a great source of info on good quality binos try visiting some of the bird watching websites. Those guys take good glass very seriously.

Middle priced scopes scopes work pretty well for me, but I insist on the best binoculars I can afford...Geo

Where good glass really shines is sheep or goat hunting. When you need to reach to the other side of a valley and size up an animal you just can't have poor glass. Trying to judge whether a sheep is 4/5th curl or just inside a 3/4 curl at 2000 yards is very difficult. You can select to spend a half day humping across the valley and up the other mountain only to find it is a 3/4 curl or you can buy good glass. In those conditions that extends from the rifle scope to the binoculars to the spotting scope.

High end binos do have practical benefits, and are a real pleasure to use.

Whether that is "worth it" depends on how important seeing well in tough conditions is to you, and also how much of a financial sacrifice you would need to make to buy them.

I bought a used pair of Swarovski 8.5x40 EL for about half the cost of new. They are truly beautiful to look through, and everyone who uses them comes away impressed. As nice as they are, being a lowly government worker-bee, I wouldn't pay full price for them.

I also have some very high end Austrian scopes. However, I have since migrated to Leupold VX3 glass, which is still high quality but at a substantial savings with no loss of performance for my applications.

Having made astronomy telescope optics from scratch for many years as an amateur hobbyist, quality of workmanship and glass can be difference makers. The best of optical glass necessary for top end refracting scopes can be very expensive, but there is no substitute for larger objective lens assembly aperture and appropriate light cone exit pupil in the eyepiece in capturing light in lowlight conditions. You pays your money and takes your chances.

Thank you to all for your replies.

When I am attempting to get a varmint rifle to shoot a 1/2 inch 100-yard group with a new load and the target center keeps disappearing it gets frustrating. I'm just not sure whether it is old eyes or the scope. I think I'll have to try better scope glass.

Thanks again, to everyone.

I'm picky with optics and wouldn't pay for the expensive ones because I've never felt handicapped with my old B&L 7 X 35s.

High end optics are usually more durable in rugged conditions.

Livorwort, I think you should get to an eye doctor, no matter how crappy the glass is you shouldn't have things disappear. I'm 70 had cataract surgery in both eyes a number of years ago, have floaters I have to wait to get out of the way sometimes. But even with my Leupold VX-1 and 2's 1-4x20mm scopes I can shoot sub-MOA groups to 300 yards(our longest range).

I'm not a big game hunter any longer, I hunt coyotes in up to five states each year, I have a hunting truck set up with a bunk and heat in the back and some times go on month long coyote hunting trips. In most states there is no time restriction on predator hunting. If I can see a coyote with my bare eyes coming in I can kill him with one of my scopes, My coyote rifles wear 1-4x20mm, 1.5-6x40m and one has a 2.5-10x40mm.

I like to build my own rifles and do some wildcatting, so I spend a lot of time at the range, and with my eyes I can no longer shoot open or peep sights so it is scopes on everything.
When I hear people talk about scopes I wonder how I was able to shoot anything in the past. My Metallic Silhouette rifle of the 70's wore a Lyman 10x non-perma center scope and it worked just fine on 500 meter rams, they were clear and crosshairs easily held on the sweet spot to topple one. My still hunting and tracking rifle wore Weaver K-1.5 and V-4.5 never lost a deer because I couldn't see him or put the crosshairs right where they were needed. I did dabble in a little long range deer hunting targeting specific deer that I saw while trapping and a Ruger #1 in 300 Win Mag with the same Lyman 10x worked just fine, heck I could hit a 500 meter ram with it off hand a deer off a rest was a piece of cake.

I personally think that as long as you don't try and stretch your shots beyond where you can hold on fur, which for me is around 300 yards on a coyote even the lowly 1-4x20 scope works just fine, I have them on coyote guns(mostly combo guns) by Leupold, Nikon and Weaver, My favorite coyote/hunting scope is the 1.5-6x40 and have them by Burris, Alpen, Sightron and Bausch&Lomb. To me FOV is way more important than X's.

The only scope to ever fail on me was an old Leupold Vari-X 2 on a lightweight 35 Whelen, the fourth shot made it sound like a maraca.

The biggest mistake I've made over the years is not buying my Swarovski El's sooner.

About ten years ago a buddy & I where hunting elk. We were sitting next to each other glassing the hillside across from us. My friend said there's a nice bull bedded down over there. I looked with my Leopold 10x40 and couldn't spot the bull. My buddy said here use these "Swaro 10 x40EL's" and instantly I could clearly see the bull.

I bought my Swaro's and have never looked back! I'm constantly telling young guy's to put thier money in good glass. When big game hunting you use your bino's 99% of the time and your rifle/scope the other 1%. Your rifle does no good if you can't find the game in the first place.

A good friend of mine drew one of three 2017 desert bighorn sheep tags in New Mexico. He set up his rifles, 25-06 and 300 Winchester Mag) to shoot at the same spot up to 400 yards. He bought a high end range finder and spotting scope and practiced with the rifles and the range finder as well as walking a great deal to get ready for the hunt. On the third day of the hunt they saw sheep on the mountain and drove the jeep as far as possible and then walked to emerge behind where the sheep were last seen. Ben indicated that at first he could not shoot as there were three rams in a row broadside to him and a single shot would kill them all. Of course I discounted his statement figuring that sheep hunters were like fishermen. The rams separated and the one with a full curl was standing broadside to him. Down he went at the first shot. The range finder measured the shot at 25.5 yards. You never can tell. In retrospect Ben indicated he would have done nothing different. Smiles to all.

jborn

I learned a lot when I began shopping for binoculars about 7-8 years ago. I depended upon binoculars a lot because I was doing my deer hunting exclusively with an open sighted flintlock, in all seasons. I loved my little Nikon 7 x 20 compacts, because they were light as a feather. But when I needed them the most... near dawn and dusk, they didn't transmit enough light to make out bucks in the thickets. I had a nice pair of porro prism 7 x 35 Sans & Streiffe model 702's that utilized some superb Japanese glass, but I dropped them out of a tree stand and knocked them out of collimation. My Pentax 7 x 50's are decent, but not great, and way too heavy and bulky for still hunting.

I started out looking at Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica binoculars that met my criteria. I didn't want over 7x since any hand shake becomes more apparent at higher power. I wanted at least a 5 mm exit pupil since that was the most that 50 year old eyes could utilize anyway, and very important was my self imposed weight limitation of no more than 22 oz., since I tend to do a lot of walking, probably more than I should. In fact, I pushed an 8 point buck to another hunter during a move to another stand on Monday. I soon found that the three ultra premium brands I mentioned were all much heavier in models that met my other criteria.

I continued to do research and comparison shop. I pored over reviews in birding magazines since bird watchers are known for demanding the absolute best in resolution and optics. I actually bought a pair of 8 x 40 Nikons that were highly rated. When I received them, it was a dreary rainy evening. I unpacked them and looked at some distant objects in the waning light. They seemed good until I grabbed those damaged 1960's vintage Sans & Streiffe 7 x 35's. When I torqued the mis-aligned barrels to bring the images back together, I was shocked to find that they were clearer, sharper, and brighter than my brand new Nikons. What really pissed me off was seeing that the Nikons were made in China. I sent the Nikons back and kept shopping. Long story short, I ended up buying a pair of the unfortunately now discontinued Swift Eaglet 825R 7 x 42's. They were, and still are outstanding, with low ED Japanese lenses and prisms. In side by side comparisons to Zeiss and Leica's under the same low light conditions, looking into woods and brush, looking at distant numbers or letters on road signs and mail boxes, looking at roofing slates on a distant barn, they are 98-99% as good for light transmission, clarity, pincushion distortion, edge to edge sharpness, etc., and they cost half as much. But even better to me was that their overall quality came in at 10 - 12 oz. lighter than their much more expensive competition. They weigh 21 oz.

So it boils down to compromise. The absolute very best optics glass in the world unfortunately comes in some heavy packages. That's fine if you sit in a stand all day. I chose to sacrifice perhaps 1% on optical quality in order to not feel like I've carried a brick around my neck all day. There are some real sleepers out there if you shop and compare. That's the hardest part, because it is extremely hard to make a valid comparison unless you can look through several different brands and models under the exact same conditions, at the same time. And looking out the window or door of an optics shop at noon on a clear day won't tell you a damn thing about how they will perform at dusk on an overcast December day in the brush.

If I were young I'd buy the best optics I could find. Yes even if they cost me 1-2000 or more. When you spread the expense over 40-50 years it is not that much a year. At my age I just buy what does the job at hand. Decent, but not too expensive.

I own a Ziess 15x60, a pair of Leica 12x50 and a pair of Swarovski 8x40. The Swarvoski is without question the best of the lot.

I wish that I had bought a pair of Swarovski 12X50, rather than the first two.

I think it's a good summary Keith. Others have also mentioned that besides good quality, it also takes larger sizes, weight. In rifle scopes and related binocular and spotting scope optics, I also think that Japanese optics have made strong advances into the high end optics market.

Some of the value end Japanese optics are very good, but a big problem is consistency. Including european brands, on the high price end, I think a product can be purchased sight unseen with high confidence. The lower the price, the more I think it pays off to try before buying to attempt to weed out a mediocre one.

Totally worth the money. I currently use a pair of Zeiss 10x40 Victory's, a pair of 8x30 Kahles, and a pair of 8x25 Meopta's.

The pair of Kahles were my first pair of high end optics, they've been stalwarts in the field. I've owned them almost 20 years now. About 4 years ago I took them on a duck hunt and they somehow fell out of my pack, un cased into about 1 foot of snow. No didn't know I lost them until I got home and then I spent the next 3 days scouring the marsh looking for them, no luck, and then Ma Nature dropped about 2 more feet of snow in the area..... I found them a few months later, in the spring and fully expected them to be trashed from the elements.
They weren't. Nothing at all wrong with them, just muddy and filthy. After a careful cleaning...they were as clear and sharp as new.

I was lucky in acquiring three sets of binoculars over the years and all were acquired by trade or purchased used. They serve distinct purposes. The oldest pair are an odd magnification, but I prefer them for birding. Zeiss Dialycht 6 x 42 roof prisms (armored) that I bought in a local camera shop for $300 and they had been rarely used. 1 lb., 14 oz. I traded a pair of Nikon 7x50 for a pair of armored Fujinon Meibo 7 x 50. I used them on my saltwater rig and for stargazing. They now sit in my desk drawer at work and I scan the horizon from my fifth floor for birds of prey. The Nikons were actually better optically with pin point star images, edge to edge, but were on the delicate side for marine use. The Fujinons are heavy enough to kill a deer with a head strike. I bet they are five pounds. My third pair are Leica 7x20B. Compact and an easy carry.

Yes big difference

Buy once, cry once.

Swaro EL's are the best in the world.

Not being able to see to make a safe shot at dawn and dusk is false economy.

I would say NO because in general 2x to 3x jump in price does not give you 2x to 3x jump in performance. If you are curious the gold standard now is Nikon WX 7x50IF designed for observation of night sky.

Gil, those lower magnifications are the limit for my use on cold, windy days, half-shivering, arms close to sides to steady them. They're also favoured by our deep-sea trawler captains.

Let me guess... you have a pair on Layaway or a 24 hour hold.

Nope, I have been using Zeiss 7x since about 1990.

Really, that's hard to believe. Especially when your credibility sucks. Can you see into the future with them? If so, do you ever see a day when you will own even one lousy double gun? I suppose you might have "repackaged" them with some Tasco lenses.

By the way, are you really Ed Good posting under another name? Another member here thinks you are Ed, and that you are a sad, fictional, pathetic, and lonely old man who just likes to Troll. That does seem plausible.

Can you confirm that?

Give you a few observations not mentioned. You want Binoculars to suit the job . Standard marine glass has always been a 7x50. Lower power less shake from engine vibrations good low light ability size and weight not important, they usually ride in a fitted box on the bridge, Lower power easier on,your eyes scanning. Hunting most game same thing applies except you want a smaller glass with less bulk and weight 7x30 is a good choice. It’s no accident WW II the Navy used a 7x50 while the Army carried a 6x30 in the field .

Bird watchers use much higher power the target is small & most take a quick look to identify a bird add it to their list then move on. 10 power bird watchers binocular will tire your eyes scanning. There could be good use for a high power glass varmit hunting but spotting scopes much better for small animals. Deer size game you don’t need high magnification

I use 4 glasses Swarovski 7x30 general use & a very small pair of Swarovski 8x25 for very light weight use. Either one a top glass probably no better than other top brands. Other two are Vintage B&L , 7x50 Bureau of ships and a Army issue 6x30 both restored.The old glasses are nearly as good visually as the Swarovskis not water resistant or fog proof like a new glass. Lens not coated,they will flare in adverse light .

Biggest mistake in a binocular is too much power. Thing that affects what you see the most is objective lens size. Bigger the better until it’s too big to carry.

Boats

Newer scopes will blow your mind. Look into the clarity and the amount of light the Burris and vortex scopes have to offer with a lifetime warranty. It's incredible!

#1 on what Boats posted re power.

My general purpose glass is the discontinued Swarovski 7x30 SLC. My wife uses the same vintage Swarovski 8x30 SLC. Both are nice general purpose glasses but I prefer the 7x30.

We also have a Swarovski 10x50 SLC which is nice for long range/low light glassing as long as you are close to the truck (heavy suckers which helps dampen the shake).

I have always spent the bulk of my optics money on higher end glasses & spotting scopes & have been satisfied with the Leupold VX-3/ Vari-X3 series of rifle scopes.

If I was going to do long range shooting using target type adjustments for POI I might look into more expensive rifle scopes to get more precision/repeatability in POI adjustments but in my view top optical quality much is more important in glasses than it is scopes

In using binoculars, anchor the binoculars to your face by squeezing your thumbs underneath your cheekbones. Simple, but effective and you probably already knew this. Captain Obvious

My deer are all coming out of the bat caves they must live in at about 5:50pm. I've already shot my little buck for the season, and GA law requires the 2nd one to be 4 pts. on one side, or better. Since it's dang near dark before I see them, I've decided that if you have to have binoculars to see if they're big enough, they aren't...Geo

The above technique will definitely help but if you are wearing a reasonably tight fitting cap with a bill, pulling the binocular & bill together so you are using your head to help stabilize the binocular works very well.

Serial number G053145 indicates 1989 as year of manufacture. Special eyepieces allow FOV of 7.5 degrees with eye relief of 20mm. FMC glass surfaces assure bright clear image under difficult atmospheric conditions plus at dawn and dusk.

Buy the best quality your finances allow, keep a 7mm exit pupil diameter, with as high power as keeps the 7mm. Use roof prism, as they are lighter for the same power, and where possible, get rubber armored. If possible, use a scope that matches the Binocular, if not possible, the Binocular is most important. The glass is for the last 5 min. of the hunt( in the morning, it is getting lighter). My "wish" would be for 8x56 roof prism rubber armored Zeiss. Not being able to afford Zeiss, I would select the same features in a "lesser make". At the end of the day, with 7mm exit pupil in 8mm Binoculars; what you can see at 10m with your naked eye ,you can see at 80 with the glasses. You can see a deer with much less glass, but can you see if it is a doe or button buck, can you tell if it is 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 years old.
Mike

Several years ago; I was with a group of guys, and we were all sitting in our lawn chairs looking out at a lake where the water skiers were being pulled.
By coincidence, we all had a pair of binoculars: (We are all deer hunters).
Anyway, I looked through everyone's binoculars, and the older guy said "Try These" They were Zeiss 8X56's.
WOW! The Haze went away, and I could see way more clearly.

Then, a few years later, I was in a Cabela's in Sidney, NE, and looked at binoculars: The employee said "The Zeiss 8X56's show more in darkness than the second generation Night Binoculars."

Bubba; you pays for what you gets.

Here's a discussion of exit pupil size and how to measure your appropriate exit pupil. Not all have the same size:
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-equipment/a-pupil-primer/

"you pays for what you gets" is exactly right. Or at least you won't get it w/o paying for it.

I sold a pair of Leica 8x42s for about $700 used as I recall. That's a steal but used binos are usually pretty cost effective. Ebay, it's search tools, and a little time are your friend.

Amen, Brent. My Fujinons were only $100. They have served me perfectly for years.

SRH

The Fujinon FMT are quite popular in EU. Kind of surprising as those are heavy designed primarily for ship maritime use where weight is of little consequence.

It is of no consequence to me either. I am not averse to heavy glasses, nor heavy guns, for most uses.

SRH

Like a gun, a binocular is a tool. You match the tools to the job a hand:




Last Wednesday morning....



A good pair of binos is a thing of joy to use. I got these used probably 20-years ago on fleabay for $500. They had issues and the seller was a lowlife but Swarowski made them right again....gratis!



At the end of the day of hard use, your eyes aren't as wrecked as they would otherwise be with cheaper optics.

Lloyd that’s the same Swarovski glass I have. Bought it about 1997. Give you a tip. Last year a small fleck of coating inside the barrel came off. Did not affect the performance but bothered me. Called Swarovski they gave me a return authorization. Month later glasses came back to me totally refurbished like new. No charge they even paid the shipping. I think they cost 600 dollars new. 30 dollars a year with the annual price still dropping.

Interesting thing is they actually repaired them. Asian way is importer buys 100 they ship 110 to cover defects. No American repair facility When you hear about a brand new pair replacing, that’s how it works.

Boats

Swarovski actually rebuilt mine again a few years ago (the strap tabs failed). Assigned me a new serial number (new barrels) and completely went through them again (a second time!) for zero charge and then paid to ship them back to me. I believe the original serial number was dated sometime back in the early-mid 80s. Spectacular service by anyone's definition. I actually like them better than the more-modern versions my buddies were using in the early 2000s (their's cost $1000, these fit my hands better). Just the right balance between weight, field of view and magnification IMHO. They have helped keep me in venison for almost 20-years now.