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Posted By: RARiddell Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 07:18 PM
With modern technology 12ga doubles are getting lighter and lighter, has the 16ga seen its day only to drift off into obscurity? Aside from various collectible guns are they really worth it?
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 07:33 PM
The 16ga was king in my area when I was growing up. Now, rarely seen. I like mine and I like the way they all seem to balance and carry better than the 12ga versions of the same gun. "Goldilocks" guage. I think mine dispatch game as well as my 12's. Worth the price difference? Probably not...Geo

Obsolete? No!
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 07:39 PM
Originally Posted By: RARiddell
With modern technology 12ga doubles are getting lighter and lighter, has the 16ga seen its day only to drift off into obscurity? Aside from various collectible guns are they really worth it?


I have more friends who take to the woods with the 16, now, than I did 40 years ago. Browning, among others, produces guns, and ammunition for the gauge. It handles an ounce of birdshot well, carries well, and is easier for women and children to warm up to than a lightweight 12.
The only gauge I have any non toxic shot layed in for is 16, the result of a happy accident of someone disposing of his 16s, and selling off the ammunition for it.
There is more than what a guns weighs. If all one does is hang around a trap or skeet field, you could come to believe the 16 is dead. But, if you are serious about chasing birds, a 16 still makes a lot of sense.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: skeettx Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 07:41 PM
What I WANT is a set of 16 gauge barrels for my Kreighoff K-32


Mike
Posted By: ROMAC Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 08:13 PM
Not in my opinion.

Custom pair of consecutively serialed 16 gauge Brownings I bought last year.




Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 08:18 PM
ob·so·lete

adjective
1.
no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion;



Nope. 16 ga. guns are still being produced, and used, and they're still making ammo. How could it be obsolete?

SRH
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 08:56 PM
I have a vault full of great 12 gauge game guns but these days find myself grabbing a sixteen when heading out the door on a real quail hunt. My bar none favorite is a lowly 16 DS Lefever with 26" barrels and a small frame. Not much to look at but carries great and is the most instinctive shooting gun I own. Load for real birds is always 1 oz of #7 at about 1175 fps. For clays I drop down to 7/8 oz of #8.

In my country the twenty probably outnumbers all the others put together and are sort of boring.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 09:24 PM
It may be safe to say the 16 is a favourite of discriminating shooters. My SKB, Elsie, Parker and Sauer in 16 and 20 get most use in early season ducks, geese, grouse. The 12s only come out when it's challenging weather and shooting.
Posted By: Eric 375 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 09:41 PM
When I take my Boss hammer gun with the 2'nd patent thumb lever opener I do not feel obsolete in any way shape or form. Light and deadly and a true joy to use. Have had several ask if it is for sale and the reply is always a firm no. It is a wonderful gun and by loading either lead or non toxic it performs nicely in the field or on the clays course.
Posted By: skeettx Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 09:55 PM
Hello King Brown
I am most interested in a (your) 16 gauge SKB.
Can you please provide more data and possibly pictures
Thank you
Mike
Posted By: fallschirmjaeger Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 10:31 PM
Originally Posted By: RARiddell
With modern technology 12ga doubles are getting lighter and lighter, has the 16ga seen its day only to drift off into obscurity? Aside from various collectible guns are they really worth it?


The way I see it, the 12 can never be as svelte as a 16. I have many more 12s than 16s, but a 16 in the hand feels just about perfect for me personally. With a small framed 16 you can have a 20 gauge sized/weighted gun with a larger diameter bore. I say, what is not to like???
Posted By: eeb Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 10:36 PM
If the 16 is yesterday’s news then so is the 20. The 12 can do it all. A #1 frame Parker 12 is a great gun and the light weight English guns are even better.
Posted By: RARiddell Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 10:54 PM
Please dont get me wrong, my first gun was a 16ga model 12, loved that gun hands down. But who is selling them now, aside from Browning and unfortunately I'm not buying a matched pair in a handmade case these days, just curious, thats all!
Posted By: canvasback Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 10:57 PM
Originally Posted By: RARiddell
With modern technology 12ga doubles are getting lighter and lighter, has the 16ga seen its day only to drift off into obscurity?


No.
Posted By: GLS Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 11:02 PM
I have and use more 16 gauge guns than any other gauge. It's my favorite upland gauge. Prewar French and Brit 16 SXS guns are often lighter than many modern, postwar 20 gauge guns. I wish more folks would sell their "obsolete" 16s and flood the market. I stockpile factory and handload for it.
Posted By: keith Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 11:02 PM
ob·so·lete

adjective
adjective: obsolete

1.
no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion;

Yes, the 16 gauge is obviously obsolete. Nobody makes guns or shells in 16 gauge anymore. Any shells you find are likely to be duds that won't fire. Anyone who has a 16 gauge double is in "double trouble", no pun intended, because we all know that doubles are pretty much obsolete too. The best thing to do is to sell them quick, for any offer you can get for them. If you hang on to them much longer, you will probably have to pay to have them disposed of.
Posted By: old colonel Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/03/17 11:59 PM
In five years and hundreds of days hunting only one day was spent with a gun other than a 16 and that was because it was my grandfather’s and thought it should get out in the woods again

Don’t have a 16 made since the 1920’s, but as others have noted the ammo and guns are still being made.

16 like SXS guns is a niche market and will continue to be such.

Yes this question in its variations pops up time to time, it remains amusing.
Posted By: RARiddell Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 12:23 AM
Originally Posted By: old colonel
Yes this question in its variations pops up time to time, it remains amusing.


Very much so, I'm glad I asked!
Posted By: Bill Davis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 12:26 AM
Your 16ga. Brownings are magnificent!! Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: dal Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 12:28 AM
Nope.

My sixteens will be around longer than my twelves, twenties or twentyeights....if it ever comes to it. But then mine are scaled framed.
Posted By: ed good Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 12:29 AM
as an upland field gun, the 16 gauge had a charm...it was said the 20 will not always kill clean, the twelve is over kill, but the 16 is just right...that was certainly my experience...
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 12:40 AM
Never rule out the 16 ga. It refuses to die.
JR
Posted By: King Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 01:21 AM
Mike, I'm sorry I didn't identify individually my 16 and 20 gauges instead of lumping them together. My SKB is a 20ga single-trigger Model 500 o/u IC/M. It's my go-to gun. Think I bought it new around 1980 for $180.

My other 20 is 1915 Elsie field IC/F. The 16s are 1914 J.P. Sauer Model VIII IC/IC and 1889 Parker hammer 0-frame Cyl/F. All my waterfowl gunning is from blinds over decoys at water's edge and on farm fields.

I've never felt handicapped, knowing their limits.
Posted By: Samuel_Hoggson Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 01:25 AM
Originally Posted By: RARiddell
...my first gun was a 16ga model 12, loved that gun hands down.


Well then, sounds like you need to locate another 16 ga M-12.

And what happened to your first?
Posted By: skeettx Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 02:23 AM
King
Thank you, I was HOPING smile
Never have I seen a 16 gauge SKB
Mike
Posted By: 12brd Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 02:46 AM
Ive got an RBL, a 21 and 2 Browning 525's. Cant get enough of the versitile 16. With Kents new Bismuth, they can go anywhere.
Posted By: welder Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 02:59 AM
I've about culled my herd down to nothing but 16's....and the odd 28. The only 12 left is a Parker, sleeved, reblued and reproofed in England that hasn't got a 1/2 box of shells through it in 30 years, anyone looking?

Delightful to carry and plenty of punch unless you miss, which in my case, it was usually a shot that shouldn't have been taken anyway! 16's will be around as long as there a few of us that can "smell the coffee".

Welder
Posted By: Owenjj3 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 03:00 AM


A nice grouse I took last year with my DMB 16 bore. It is the perfect grouse gun for my purposes. The scaled action 16 ga rounded frame is much more svelte than the 12 and fits the hand perfectly. I am not opposed to smaller gauges, but this 16 is 6-1 and I have no need for anything smaller.
Posted By: Saskbooknut Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 03:57 AM
Still fond of my 16 gauge AyA, obsolete or not.
Posted By: vabirddog Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 04:01 AM
Originally Posted By: Owenjj3


A nice grouse I took last year with my DMB 16 bore.


The King, and The Queen, of the Uplands!
Posted By: 67galaxie Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 04:19 AM
I just love the feel of the guns, the oddity and availability of older ones on the market. Honestly if I'm watching a dog work I really don't notice the gun no matter what size it is. Honestly don't care if I shoot as long as someone else does
Posted By: Paul Harm Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 02:44 PM
I have one 16 sxs and about 15 12ga sxs's. Over at the club yesterday a friend had the new Browning A-5 in 16ga. Oh man did that thing come up nice. It felt light and swung nice. If ever I have the urge to buy a auto that would be the one.
Posted By: RCC Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 02:50 PM
As someone said earlier, this is always a fun topic. I have always been the odd duck in the flock, I guess, but gauge has never been a driver for me.

I have looked for and bought and use guns that first catch my eye and then just feel right. If both aren't there, I look to the next one. The last question just before "how much" is what's the gauge?

That's why there are guns of four different gauges among my safe queens.

I don't think the 16 will ever be really dead for bird hunters, ever.
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 03:15 PM
What do you mean?
It already is, everyone knows that...
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 03:40 PM
Data from LODGH (Loyal Order of Dedicated Grouse Hunters) shows that the 16ga is more popular with that group than it was 30 years ago. Still a long ways from 20ga popularity, but chosen by something like 15% of those who responded. Over that time period, the 16 and the 28 were the big winners in terms of increase in popularity; the 12 was the big loser.
Posted By: wyobirds Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 04:07 PM
When upland bird hunting I shoot my 16 Ga. #2 AyA loaded with RMC all brass shells to the exclusion of any other shotgun or gauge.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 04:57 PM
One thing that is saving the 16 is the internet. Unlike 20 years ago you can find ammo to suit your needs. As long as ammo is readily available there will be shooters to enjoy them. Also the 16 is often a nice weight double with enough shot for 90% of the average persons hunting needs. Not a gun I'd pick first for ducks or geese but for rough upland hunting it still hits a sweet spot. Plus you get to buy them at a discount compared to the same gun in 12 or 20 gauge. Kind of ironic. Wish people would declare Winchester Model 42 as dead as the 16.
Posted By: Der Ami Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 05:00 PM
Given the choice, I will not hunt with anything except 16 ga.
Mike
Posted By: bbman3 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/04/17 08:00 PM
I shot 20s mostly and a 28 gauge Parker skeet gun for a couple of years back when Ga. had plenty of wild birds.I bought a 16 Fox 15 years ago and now if I had to do it over I would have shot 16s a lot. Bobby
Posted By: wingshooter16 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 01:05 AM
Yes, an amusing topic that comes up not quite as often as "what choke, load, mayo or mustard for late season pheasants?"

A light twelve is still .729: it can never be .662. For me, weight is a minor consideration with a 16. A scaled frame round action 16 in my large hands is a delight to carry, and if your boots are not in a blind or standing on concrete calling for a "bird," but putting in the miles over the hills and plains and in the woods, the 16 is neither obsolete nor rare.

It is, as stated previously, my Goldilocks gauge.

Mike
Posted By: dal Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 02:49 AM
'...Not a gun I'd pick first for ducks or geese...'

Not a fair statement IMHO. It works just as well as any of the twelve guage guys shooting around me. And I've had a lot of guys shooting around me over the years. Just say'n
Posted By: TMair Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 03:01 AM
Originally Posted By: dal
'...Not a gun I'd pick first for ducks or geese...'

Not a fair statement IMHO. It works just as well as any of the twelve guage guys shooting around me. And I've had a lot of guys shooting around me over the years. Just say'n


This year I used a 20 more than one of my 12s or 10s, can't imagine for the life of me why a 16 wouldn't get it done.

TM
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:10 AM
Originally Posted By: RARiddell
With modern technology 12ga doubles are getting lighter and lighter, has the 16ga seen its day only to drift off into obscurity? Aside from various collectible guns are they really worth it?


It depends on the gun. Last one I bought didn't even make it to gun shop display rack. I go to Walmart to buy Normandy Salad, Pomi strained tomatoes, and Canadian herring in wine sauce. When they stopped carrying Old Croc cheese I found cheese and butter from Ireland at German store called Aldi. Now I get Chilean Salmon, Canadian apple pie, Canadian honey and few other select items from them to Walmarts loss.

Ok, last time I checked ammo section at Walmart and they had Australian Winchester 16ga 8s, 16ga Remington 1&1/4oz mag 6s along with 16ga 1oz and 1&1/8oz 6s from Federal. That fact should answer your question about where the status of 16ga is.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 11:27 AM
Those who think the 16 ga. is obsolete should remember that the firearms and ammo manufacturers are not offering new 16 ga. guns, and loading ammo, and the Walmarts are not stocking it on their shelves because they are trying to "re-introduce" the 16 ga. They don't have an agenda to see the 16 make a "comeback". The guns and ammo are offered for sale, and are stocked on the shelves, because they sell well enough that the stores and manufacturers see a profit there. If Walmart didn't sell but two boxes of 16 ga. in the next year it would disappear from the shelves. Enough demand for it is there, or it wouldn't be offered.

All of which means, the reports of it's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

SRH
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 11:50 AM
I'm surprised to hear that Walmart had Australian Winchester 16ga cartridges, because I've been a keen 'wing-shooter' for nearly forty years and I don't know anyone here in South Australia that currently owns a 16 gauge.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 12:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Aussie
I'm surprised to hear that Walmart had Australian Winchester 16ga cartridges, because I've been a keen 'wing-shooter' for nearly forty years and I don't know anyone here in South Australia that currently owns a 16 gauge.


Winchester probably loads them for US market there along with those they manufacture for Browning. What is kind of odd from what I have seen only 16ga Winchester and 16ga Browning line shells are loaded by Winchester in Australia other gauge shells stating Made in USA on the box. The Winchester 1oz load costs $9.17 per box at Walmart while Browning labeled ones at LGS go for about $14 per box. Walmart also carries plastic camping utensils made in Sweden. As I said I buy very few specific items at Walmart preferring to get other stuff from different vendors.
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 01:04 PM
It won't slide into obscurity until a lot of these old 16 gauge shotguns wear out. So I figure the 16 gauge will never slide into obscurity as these old guns show no signs of wearing out.
Posted By: ed good Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:20 PM
sadly, the passing of upland game hunting in the east pretty much eliminates the practical need for 16 gauge guns...
Posted By: GLS Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:25 PM
The demise of upland hunting in the east has just been greatly exaggerated as well as any alleged elimination of practical need for 16 ga. guns. As far as "practical" goes, Chuck H. said it best: "once you pass a Kentucky Fried Chicken on the way to hunt, all practicality is gone."
Posted By: ed good Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:33 PM
gls: that is good news...from what i hear, wild game bird populations in the east are so depressed that upland hunting is no longer practical, unless one just enjoys hiking with a good dog, in hopes of flushing an occasional bird...

a notable exception is northern maine, where i understand huntable populations of grouse still survive...

any wild quail left down your way, or is it all put and take stocked birds?
Posted By: dal Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:51 PM
Originally Posted By: ed good
sadly, the passing of upland game hunting in the east pretty much eliminates the practical need for 16 gauge guns...


huh?
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 05:53 PM
Upon further review all 16's are obsolete like pin fired doubles before them. To open up room for non obsolete guns I am willing to accept some of these obsolete guns. Due to limited space I will start with Graded Fox guns first CE or higher to start. First fifty will be freight paid by me but after that freight cost will have to be paid by the shipper. Please send pictures first.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 06:00 PM
Originally Posted By: GLS
"once you pass a Kentucky Fried Chicken on the way to hunt, all practicality is gone."


NO, crazy I'm pretty sure if prepared the right way game meat is healthier to consume than fried chicken at fast food chain. Not picking on anyone particular, but I find it shocking that people who buy chicken tender specials at burger joints actually think they're eating real chicken meat. shocked I mean decent chicken costs about $15 per bird and can't even be purchased at most supermarkets.
Posted By: 1cdog Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 06:38 PM
I am looking to purchase an obsolete 16 gauge.

Preferably between the wars, English made sidelock.

If you have one you want to get rid of please send me a PM.
Posted By: GLS Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 07:16 PM
Originally Posted By: ed good
gls: that is good news...from what i hear, wild game bird populations in the east are so depressed that upland hunting is no longer practical, unless one just enjoys hiking with a good dog, in hopes of flushing an occasional bird...

a notable exception is northern maine, where i understand huntable populations of grouse still survive...

any wild quail left down your way, or is it all put and take stocked birds?


I am getting reports out of the Red Hills area of SW Ga. that this has been one of the best seasons for wild quail in memory. One account was that on one hunt friend had 4 occasions with 3 coveys in the air at once.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 08:25 PM
Gil, last I heard the plantation wild birds guys in SW GA figured the cost of producing those birds was about $500 per bird. Lots of KY fried chicken for that...Geo
Posted By: GLS Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 08:35 PM
A buddy here figures $1000 (per shot bird) and that's early release. Gil
Posted By: canvasback Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 08:42 PM
Giant mistake figuring out the "per bird" cost.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 08:52 PM
Wild quail used to be truly wild and thus free. They were everywhere, even in my yard growing up. We lost'em somehow. When you have to start buying flighted birds at $5 a head to release you tend to do the arithmetic and think in terms of cost effectiveness...Geo
Posted By: keith Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 09:39 PM
Originally Posted By: canvasback
Giant mistake figuring out the "per bird" cost.


This is probably true, except for the fact that there are places that run quail hunting operations as a business where well heeled clients pay big money to hunt.

That said, I'd like to see a cost breakdown to show exactly how it can cost $500.00 or even $1000.00 per bird to raise, release, and allow hunters to shoot them. Those figures would certainly have to include, the accommodations, the land, the property taxes, and every little line item right down to the cost of the guns, ammunition, and the gasoline the shooters used to drive to the plantation.

I think it would be a bit like calculating the cost of sending a child to college by starting with the cost of the diapers, baby food, and childhood vaccinations they consumed as infants. If there was really that kind of money trading hands for the shooting of little game birds, I think Monsanto and Cargill would be getting involved in doing it.

By the way, everyone knows that Kentucky Fried Chicken is healthier than wild game that has been killed with deadly poisonous lead shot. And this forum is long overdue for another thread on hinge pin grease, oil, or both... including their effects upon the environment.
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/05/17 11:19 PM
I never particularly liked KFC anyway, could care less what his "Secret" spices are. We used to have a lot better Chicken lace here than KFC but for some reason they lost out & KFC stayed, but wasn't because of my patronizing them. Name was Lee's & he was a nephew of the Colonel, used a different recipe than his uncle which was much tastier, at least to me.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 12:01 AM
Keith, I'm not talking about the cost of raising the bird, I'm talking about the cost of hunting them. LOL
Posted By: Buzz Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:05 AM
I surely do like my 16 gauge. I shot several quail with mine over the last few days. Mine has 28” barrels and weighs 5 lb 13 oz. It’s a pleasure to carry in the field and is user friendly, all day long. I shoot RST 1 oz loads in the gun and they are perfect for quail, as is the gun. I’ve shot all the other gauges too, but the 16 is my favorite. Maybe they will become even more obsolete and hence, cheaper.....but, I doubt it.
Posted By: skeettx Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:08 AM
Buzz, my 16 gauge?? What??
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:14 AM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: canvasback
Giant mistake figuring out the "per bird" cost.



By the way, everyone knows that Kentucky Fried Chicken is healthier than wild game that has been killed with deadly poisonous lead shot. And this forum is long overdue for another thread on hinge pin grease, oil, or both... including their effects upon the environment.


I'm lucky because I have Wegman's that sells Jojoba oil plus vaseline and Cabela's with Bismuth shells next to it. Jojoba is fine gun oil and when mixed with vaseline will make nice pin grease. Jojoba and vaseline are skin friendly and Bismuth subalicylate is used in sick stomach panacea called Pepto Bismol. You know the nice looking pink stuff that tastes like "shit".
Posted By: Buzz Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:34 AM
Mike, It’s an English SLE gun made in about 1920, 2 1/2” chambers. I treat it gingerly with low pressure RST loads. It’s pretty sweet and shoots great. I think the barrels are properly regulated, which I know was recently discussed in another thread here. The gun shoots a tad (2-3”) high at 25 yards which is what I like.
Posted By: skeettx Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:43 AM
Nice gun, is it true that the barrels have quail magnets on the muzzle end to ensure a great shot??
Mike
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:48 PM
Cost of hunting a bird ? Recently , we figured off hand about $3000 per pound. Some hunts are better.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 03:57 PM
Originally Posted By: Daryl Hallquist
Cost of hunting a bird ? Recently , we figured off hand about $3000 per pound. Some hunts are better.


That sounds in the zone. Although it's the one hard truth I try to stay away from. laugh
Posted By: RCC Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Daryl Hallquist
Cost of hunting a bird ? Recently , we figured off hand about $3000 per pound. Some hunts are better.


Hell Daryl! I got the cost down to $2990 yesterday. I shot the fourth bird of the year in this drought.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 06:28 PM
Bob, did you get your picture in the paper ?

Actually, the worst upland hunting from Canada to Mexico I have experienced in 4 decades.
Posted By: Mills Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 07:49 PM
Here is a good article on the 16 gauge and the 10 gauge which is another underrated gauge

http://www.firearmsnews.com/ammo/decline-10-16-gauge-shotguns/
Posted By: keith Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/06/17 10:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Jagermeister
I'm lucky because I have Wegman's that sells Jojoba oil plus vaseline and Cabela's with Bismuth shells next to it. Jojoba is fine gun oil and when mixed with vaseline will make nice pin grease. Jojoba and vaseline are skin friendly and Bismuth subalicylate is used in sick stomach panacea called Pepto Bismol. You know the nice looking pink stuff that tastes like "shit".


Well Jagermeister, since you don't own even one lousy double gun, and haven't claimed to own any break-open single shots, it's safe to assume you have no use for home-made hinge pin lube. And nobody here really cares what you and your friends Bob and ed do with "skin friendly jojoba oil and Vaseline." You also misspelled bismuth subsalicylate. No matter though. What you really need is a good laxative since you are so full of bullshit.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 12:50 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: Jagermeister
I'm lucky because I have Wegman's that sells Jojoba oil plus vaseline and Cabela's with Bismuth shells next to it. Jojoba is fine gun oil and when mixed with vaseline will make nice pin grease. Jojoba and vaseline are skin friendly and Bismuth subalicylate is used in sick stomach panacea called Pepto Bismol. You know the nice looking pink stuff that tastes like "shit".


Well Jagermeister, since you don't own even one lousy double gun, and haven't claimed to own any break-open single shots, it's safe to assume you have no use for home-made hinge pin lube. And nobody here really cares what you and your friends Bob and ed do with "skin friendly jojoba oil and Vaseline." You also misspelled bismuth subsalicylate. No matter though. What you really need is a good laxative since you are so full of bullshit.


I have many tools and good grease can be used to make certain ones easier to use. What I would do is petition Dave Weber limit access only to those that have hight quality classic break-open guns. Will that work. NO. Are you smart enough to figure out why?
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 02:17 PM
Petroleum jelly (Vaseline) has absolutely zero film strength and shear resistance and is a terrible hinge pin lubricant. Mixing any kind of plant oil with it would only make it worse, if that's possible. Anyone who has used break-open shotguns enough to matter would know better than to put such a concoction on the hinge area of these firearms.You continue to reveal yourself as a poseur here, Jager.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 03:36 PM
I still have some of Pro-Gold grease I bought years ago at Gaylans in Northern Va (sadly replaced by Dick's). The valseline plus gun oil mixture came from some English gun book name of which I do not remember. If say say it's not suitable I will take your word for it, but please note classic gun case nickel plated jars are often referred to as vaseline jars.
Posted By: Ithaca5E Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 04:05 PM
I'll stir the pot. If the title of the thread was asking if broccoli is still considered a go-to vegetable, there would no doubt be a minority-based groundswell of vociferous support for that sad little plant.

The 16 ga.? Sadly, yes. There was a time, several generations ago, when a 16 was an intriguing solution to the 12-or-20 question. With the improved choices of 12 and 20 ga. ammunition, it's easier to use either of those gauges to replicate 16 ga. performance, or even leap over the 16 to the other side. It is easy to see why the 16 got pushed to the back.

As to weight advantages, another poster pointed out that pre-war 16s can easily weigh less than a post-war 20. But similarly, 20's can be found to weigh less than a post--war 28. That goes nowhere, really, because it all goes to underscore the question, what do you really want your gun to weigh? There is probably a gun out there in an task-effective, non-16 gauge just waiting to be picked up.

As much as I hold 16s at arm's length, if someone wants to jump in and say that 16s have a certain visual elegance, there's little argument from my corner.

Bottom line. Most everyone here on this thread is a throwback. We can't really argue that a SxS is best design out there, but we embrace its svelte lines, and the things warm our hearts. How close are they to obsolete? Pretty, but out on the fringe of the settlement, some of the people still demand them. And of all the stuff they clamor for, the little broccoli of the group is there by it fingertips. Much the same can be said for the big ten.
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 06:30 PM
I've quit bashing the 16 ga., but have to agree with all your points, Ithaca5E.
JR
Posted By: King Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 06:58 PM
Your last para, that we're all throwbacks. Right on! Nearly all my doubles wouldn't get a look on the used-gun racks around here, while we entertain ourselves discussing obsoletes. Nothing wrong with it, of course, as long as we keep grounded in reality. Thanks.
Posted By: keith Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 07:32 PM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
I've quit bashing the 16 ga., but have to agree with all your points, Ithaca5E.
JR


I do not agree with the point made by Ithaca 5E about 12-20 gauge overlap removing the usefulness of the 16 gauge.

In a nation of gun owners who are not satisfied with having no less than two dozen .30 caliber rifle cartridges, and who perpetually see some magic in also moving up or down a few thousandths of an inch in caliber, I'd say there is much more to the decline in popularity of the 16 gauge than cartridge or performance overlap.

I just bought a .32 rimfire falling block Hopkins & Allen rifle. No one is producing ammo for it and ammo that is available is both expensive and collectible. I'm trying to decide whether to keep it all original, or to open the chamber a bit and make a new link to convert it to a centerfire .32 S&W.

We don't have that sort of dilemma with our 16 gauge guns. And the only thing that will ever render them really obsolete is the efforts of anti-gun Democrats.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 09:37 PM
Keith,
You win. Best comment so far.

Keep it up.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 09:51 PM
Quote:
I'd say there is much more to the decline in popularity of the 16 gauge than cartridge or performance overlap.

Call it Skeet. As skeet shooting rose the 16 declined, while the 20, 28 & .410's flourished. I wouldn't trade a good 16 for all three of the others. My 16 Halifax (Darne) weighs 5 lb 14 oz, don't need or want anything much lighter than that for a serious hunting gun. Have a couple of 16's which each weigh 6 3/4 lbs, I can carry them with no trouble & they shoot great. I realize one can find 12''s in that weight range, but when one gets below about 6˝ lbs it much easier to find a 16 than a 12 unless you have real deep pockets, which all of us don't. Have had a couple of 20's which weighed 7 lbs, but didn't keep them. No need for a 20 that heavy.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 10:12 PM
Your convalescence hasn't intruded on your sharp thinking, Miller. I wouldn't trade a good 16 for all three of the others, either.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 10:19 PM
As Miller has pointed out....the reason for the perpetual lag in 16's as opposed to the other gauges is skeet. Plain and simple.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/07/17 10:46 PM
Five dollar light (2 1/2 DE, one ounce) 16 gauge loads at Dick's will insure that 16 gauge shooters will continue to survive.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 01:07 AM
Originally Posted By: eightbore
Five dollar light (2 1/2 DE, one ounce) 16 gauge loads at Dick's will insure that 16 gauge shooters will continue to survive.


You're lucky to have Remington Game Loads locally. Last time I seen some around here was years ago at Kmart. Local Dick's carries Rio brand. Cabela's now charges $8.99 for their Italian quail loads.
I give lot of credit to folks at Browning who sell new Auto-5, Citori and BPS in 16ga.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 02:53 AM
Ithaca Gun in Upper Sandusky will sell you a nice 16 gauge that was built in the USofA

I give them more credit.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: TMair Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 06:29 AM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
I've quit bashing the 16 ga., but have to agree with all your points, Ithaca5E.
JR


Except for that part about the 10 gauge, I have two big heavy 10 pound 3.5 magnums, and I still find myself looking for an 8 pound 2 7/8s version, best duck/goose guns around, even the 12 gauge 3.5 can't compete.

I really have no desire for a 16 but that's just me.

TM
Posted By: GLS Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 11:44 AM
In boiling down this thread, it appears that the 16 is favored by many who chase upland birds most of whom are Boomers. National figures show hunting is on a fast decline. One more reason for the alleged decline in interest in 16 over the years. I suppose one could say as go the Boomers, so goes the hunters hand-in-hand with the 16. Counting two single-shots, I shoot eleven 16's in break actions and 4 pumps. Boom! Gil
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 12:11 PM
Originally Posted By: GLS
In boiling down this thread, it appears that the 16 is favored by many who chase upland birds most of whom are Boomers. National figures show hunting is on a fast decline. One more reason for the alleged decline in interest in 16 over the years. I suppose one could say as go the Boomers, so goes the hunters hand-in-hand with the 16. Counting two single-shots, I shoot a eleven 16's in break actions and 4 pumps. Boom! Gil


I agree there.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 12:40 PM
This topic has been going for 50 years and the 16 perseveres. I think of my 16's as 12-lights. They fit my hands and are nice to carry in the field. I do have a 20, but it sits in the bedroom closet loaded with buckshot.
Posted By: TaffyAtkins Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 05:04 PM
When I got my first 16 in the late 60's I came in for a fair
amount of gentle ribbing. There going to die out was the oft
repeated refrain. Well it has not, and will not. Great gauge
and going to be around for a very long time yet.
If you have used one for any period of time you will know just how effective they can be.
Good and safe shooting.
Posted By: Karl Graebner Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 12/08/17 09:31 PM
That's great! All this talk about the 16ga. has me thinking of that Merkel 1620 again. Oh well, Christmas is coming and I've been a very good boy.....
Karl
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 01:52 AM
Just a "current events" note to those who might think the 16 ga. is obsolete. Perazzi has just offered a true, scaled frame, 16 ga. O/U. It has a Woodward style, open semi-pistol grip.

http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/perazzis-new-models/

I cannot imagine Perazzi introducing a gun in an "obsolete" gauge.

SRH
Posted By: Sandlapper Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 06:38 PM
I have been shooting a Scott Premier 16 with 27" bbls. the past few quail seasons and, at 6 lbs., it handles, and shoots like a dream. With 1 ounce loads, it honestly, as the old saying goes, shoots like a 12 and carries like a 20. Now I know why the gauge was so popular, particularly in the South. It took me 35 years to find this gun, but it was worth it. Sandlapper
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 06:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Just a "current events" note to those who might think the 16 ga. is obsolete. Perazzi has just offered a true, scaled frame, 16 ga. O/U. It has a Woodward style, open semi-pistol grip.

http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/perazzis-new-models/

I cannot imagine Perazzi introducing a gun in an "obsolete" gauge.

SRH


Yes, I think this plus fact that most Walmarts carry 16ga ammo from Winchester, Remington and Federal should put rumors of 16ga going extint to rest.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 07:01 PM
We forget that the US is not the only market for new guns. I suspect there is still a stronger following for the 16 in many European countries. So that Prazzy might be a better seller there than here for them. I hope it sells well so companies are willing take a risk on small market items like the 16.

Many years ago Ruger announced it was going to make a limited run of several calibers that the experts were telling everyone were all but dead. When they announced one would be .257 Roberts they had more orders in one week than the total planned production. So many orders they simply kept it in the line for several years. The experts were wrong, just as they are wrong about the death of the 16. People like nostalgic things. They like connecting with their past either real or imagined. So the 16 lives and ammo is easier to find now than ten years ago.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 07:12 PM
Originally Posted By: KY Jon
We forget that the US is not the only market for new guns. I suspect there is still a stronger following for the 16 in many European countries. So that Prazzy might be a better seller there than here for them. I hope it sells well so companies are willing take a risk on small market items like the 16.

Many years ago Ruger announced it was going to make a limited run of several calibers that the experts were telling everyone were all but dead. When they announced one would be .257 Roberts they had more orders in one week than the total planned production. So many orders they simply kept it in the line for several years. The experts were wrong, just as they are wrong about the death of the 16. People like nostalgic things. They like connecting with their past either real or imagined. So the 16 lives and ammo is easier to find now than ten years ago.


Browining Arms Company is helping nostalgia lovers along by offering new Auto-5, Citori, and BPS in 16ga. They even had limited run of .300H&H bolt guns recently.
Posted By: Chukarman Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Owenjj3


A nice grouse I took last year with my DMB 16 bore. It is the perfect grouse gun for my purposes. The scaled action 16 ga rounded frame is much more svelte than the 12 and fits the hand perfectly. I am not opposed to smaller gauges, but this 16 is 6-1 and I have no need for anything smaller.


I round action 16 would fill the bill for almost any upland shooter. My personal birdguns are 16s... a lightweight Jos. Harkom and a graded A.H. Fox. They have killed a lot of game for me and most likely for their previous owners.

Congratulations on a truly lovely gun.
Posted By: Chukarman Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 07:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Just a "current events" note to those who might think the 16 ga. is obsolete. Perazzi has just offered a true, scaled frame, 16 ga. O/U. It has a Woodward style, open semi-pistol grip.

http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/perazzis-new-models/

I cannot imagine Perazzi introducing a gun in an "obsolete" gauge.

SRH


Perazzi offered a scaled frame 16 some years ago - the MX16. I got excited and bought one.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 01/31/18 08:12 PM
Never had much use for one...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwDmV1KWrKQ
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/01/18 04:44 PM
Well Chuck, Californians are a little weird anyhow........ wink
Posted By: Chukarman Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/01/18 07:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Joe Wood
Well Chuck, Californians are a little weird anyhow........ wink


To quote you..."It takes two years to learn to talk and seventy years to learn to keep your mouth shut."
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/01/18 11:25 PM
Joe,
Just my perspective for my uses. I've owned a few. Eventually, I sold them off. Factory loads were limited in availability and reloading required a commitment to another press, which I wasn't willing to make. Where others might use a 16g, I covered my needs by loads in 12 and 20g. No disrespect to those that find a 16g ideal for their uses. Some of my best friends shoot 16g.


Cman,
The topic was a question posed. I expect the OP was looking for personal insight. Possibly individuals in this forum have gotten to the point where different perspectives are no longer welcome. The sense of humor around here has left too.
Posted By: Saskbooknut Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 12:55 AM
About as obsolete as this 16 gauge shooter. Still does what it was designed for. New high velocity models might do it faster, or with more oomph.
Doesn't concern me much.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 03:08 AM
Short answer, no.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 01:22 PM
I suppose side-by-side shotguns, guns with cellulose stocks, muzzleloaders, and many other things are obsolete, by many standards. Some might argue that I'm obsolete as well. I don't really care.
Posted By: AmarilloMike Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 03:42 PM
Hunting has become obsolete.

All the rational people are getting their Gallinaceans, pre-cooked, at the drive-up window at Colonel Sander's place.

I hunted quail with three friends yesterday. Two of us were carrying sixteen gauges, one a Lefever and the other a Cashmore.

This fall and winter I carried a sixteen gauge sub-six pound Fox A grade with 26" barrels for thirty days or so in Montana and took huns, sharptails, and pheasant with it. I've taken bobs and a few blues with it in Texas and pheasant and bobs in Kansas. I've taken Texas dove with it during our second mini-season. Nothing obsolete about the 16 gauge that I can tell - except in the context of the Kentucky Fried Chicken drive up.

I have five bird dogs, GPS tracking collars, a bird dog club membership, two bird leases, a membership in a field trialing organization, a dedicated hunting vehicle, a dog trailer, and scores more of miscellaneous bird dog gear. So how much more effort and expense does it cost me to round up suitable 16 gauge shells for the shotgun I want to carry? If my sixteen is chambered 2-1/2" I can reload cut down plastic hulls or I can order in RST shells.

Except in the context of the drive through at Kentucky Fried Chicken the 16 gauge is a perfectly viable choice for a game gun.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 03:54 PM
As we get older and more experienced, think less of limits than our friends and dogs in the field---which I glean from posts here---we'll pick our shots and blithely find more pleasure in lighter guns and smaller gauges. It may be contagious.
Posted By: Chukarman Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 07:51 PM
I've been shooting a 16 gauge bird gun since 1990 and have never felt undergunned (or over gunned, for that matter). Cartridges are not not THAT hard to buy, or to load.
Posted By: rocky mtn bill Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 08:43 PM
This is a pointless discussion. What is obsolete understood to mean? Are makers going to turn them out in the numbers they did in the 20's and 30's? No. Are they somehow less effective on the birds we hunt? No. Will those of us who like to use them run out of ammo? No. So, let those who have other preferences enjoy their choices. The rest of us are not affected in any way.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 09:13 PM
Originally Posted By: rocky mtn bill
This is a pointless discussion.


While light 12ga makes more sense. I like 16ga because ammo selection is simple. One ounce lead at 1165fps or 1300fps, 1oz Brenneke slug at 1350fps, for HD #1 BK at 1250fps. What I like is that 16ga Kent Bismuth is priced less than 12ga as it should be.

Don't worry Dziadu will be along soon and make it pointless fur us.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 09:45 PM
Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
Hunting has become obsolete.

All the rational people are getting their Gallinaceans, pre-cooked, at the drive-up window at Colonel Sander's place.

.


Being irrational and obsolete is still fun.
Posted By: keith Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/02/18 10:14 PM
Jagermeister, you don't hunt and you don't own any double shotguns.

It wouldn't matter much if they were all obsolete to an internet faker and tire-kicker like you.

So what does a guy who doesn't own even one lousy double shotgun use for hinge pin lube?
Posted By: billwolfe Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/03/18 08:53 PM
As others have suggested, its not a straightforward question. "Obsolescence" can only occur in a given context. Bows and arrows are obsolete as mainline military weapons, but that detracts nothing from their usefulness for recreation or hunting.

One thing that's nowhere near being obsolete in the context of upland bird and small game hunting is the 6-pound gun firing a 1-ounce load. There are plenty of 20s and 12s that fit that description, but for many of us, the 16 is optimized for that combination of weight and payload in a way that neither the 20 nor the 12 can claim.

I'm a fan of the 16-gauge in principle and have a couple nice ones. But it all comes down to the relation between a shooter and an individual gun. Just now, I'm more likely to grab a 20 or light 12 than I am a 16, not because the 16 is "obsolete" but just because my Verney-Carron boxlock 20 is such sweet, handy little wand and I'm getting aquainted with two very different light 12s each a great example of opposite ends of the Darne spectrum--a grade 3 Halifax and a V21 (sorry about fingerprints on bsrrels in pics!).
[/URL]
[/URL]

So 16 gage guns are still being produced and are available on the used market, factory ammo is readily available, and both guns and ammo function pretty much the way they did a century ago. So no, in the context of recreational shooting and small game hunting, the 16 is not even close to being obsolete, at least not in the sense of 8-track tapes or 5.25" floppy discs.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:21 AM
You are developing an eclectic collection of Regis Darne patent guns there, Bill-congrats.
Few people have even SEEN a V21.
Remind me, how is that gun choked?
I think I have seen that Halifax before....

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:27 AM
The rear trigger on the bottom gun in the pic is so far back it's a wonder it can break clean. Or, is it pulled already? I swear, it appears to be contacting the guard.

SRH
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:42 AM
Stan,
It is a Darne. It doesn't work like your guns. You can see the action is open, and the top of the triggers are projecting above the action flat. When the action is closed, the triggers will be pressed forward, into the correct position to fire the gun.
The front trigger on a Darne naturally articulates, by the way.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:46 AM
Why is it so different from the rear trigger on the upper gun? I can see the action on it is open, too.

Aren't they both Darnes? Is a Halifax not a Darne?

SRH
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 01:17 AM
My 16 gauge Halifax, grade 4, is marked License Darne. It has a bit more engraving than this grade 3. As Ted said, when the action is closed the trigger will pull.
Posted By: billwolfe Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 01:30 AM
Hey Stan,

You have a good eye! It's just as Ted and Miller said. When you cock this gun the rear trigger moves backwards till it almost touches the trigger guard. Then when you close the breech the rear trigger advances. I can personally confirm that the rear trigger works!
[/URL]
[/URL]
As for the other gun, the quick answer is that it's a V model Darne and a fundamentally different design in practically everthing except they both have sliding breech block activated by a top lever. I just checked my 1970-vintage R-15 and found no movement at all when moving the breech block forward or back.

Cheers,

Bill
Posted By: billwolfe Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 01:40 AM
Ted,
The V21 is choked R .014", L .033". Quite a bit tighter than I like but no plans to allter them just yet.
BW
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:28 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
Jagermeister, you don't hunt and you don't own any double shotguns.

It wouldn't matter much if they were all obsolete to an internet faker and tire-kicker like you.

So what does a guy who doesn't own even one lousy double shotgun use for hinge pin lube?


Dziadu, I still have some Pro-Shot Pro-Gold grease. Real good stuff that does not have expiration date.

The premium shell maker Kent just introduced Bismuth Wildfowl 16ga loads 1&1/4oz shot #4 at avg. "Vo" 1350fps. It comes in 25 cartridge boxes just like most lead or steel loads. The 16ga isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 12:38 PM
I'm beginning to warm up to those French "pull apart guns". Does anyone know if 16ga sample can be found with super smokeless proof ie. 15,500 psi for 65mm chambers or 17,000 psi for 70mm chambers?

Somehow "Cheers" doesn't fit how do French say it "a votre sante"?
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/04/18 02:49 PM
Post 1964, every Darne was proofed to 18,000. That had actually been going on at the factory for some time before that, 1964 was the year the scribes caught up with the builders and formalized what proof was going to mean going forward. It was considered adequate for guns with 75cm chambers as well.
I'm not sure why anyone would be concerned with proof level on the Darne guns. By law, the proof house in St. Etienne had the highest level for proof in Europe. 15,000 psi was a common pressure for single proof before the year 1900, with powders PJ PM, and especially, PS.

Most of what goes wrong on a Darne was done to it by someone who should have known better.

"Au revoir" works, but the term "Chao" will get you by in France, Spain, and Italy.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 01:38 AM
Ted: can you give me an idea of to when a Halifax No.3 in the 58,000 serial number. Range might date? Local gun shop has one, in near mint condition. Looks almost new, but has 65 mm chambers and a straight grip. Two piece stock. Couldn’t find the answer on line.

Thanks.
Posted By: billwolfe Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 02:40 AM
Buy it!
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 03:29 AM
I bought a Parker VH 16 today cause if they're obsolete there aren't going to be any more. Hope to have it here soon so I can initiate it into Texas quail hunting this year. 26" barrels and all original. Shows decades of scars from Virginia and Low Country association with Gentleman Bob.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 03:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Remington40x
Ted: can you give me an idea of to when a Halifax No.3 in the 58,000 serial number. Range might date? Local gun shop has one, in near mint condition. Looks almost new, but has 65 mm chambers and a straight grip. Two piece stock. Couldn’t find the answer on line.

Thanks.


I had a V20 Darne in the low 50,000 serial number range that was built in 1910.
Having said that, over the years I've become suspicious that the Halifax guns were not built in sequence, and that the numbers applied to them may have been separate from regular Darne production.
I'd need more information, and a good, clear picture of the flats and barrel markings to hazard a guess. It would be good to know the treatment of the butt, also, if it is original to the gun. It would be an educated guess, but, no more than that.
As Bill said, if the gun is that nice, and it fits you well, there isn't too much difference between the first one ever built and the last one ever built, save about 100 years time, and either example would be a great hunting/shooting implement.
I mean that in a good way.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: Argo44 Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 03:56 AM
Check the chamber markings. If it's in cm...it's 1912 or earlier.
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 03:33 PM
Ted:

I sent photos of the proof marks to your email address listed in your profile.

Not likely to make an offer on it, as I have a 12 gauge P-19 already and am actively pursuing locating a 20 gauge hammer gun with adult and modern dimensions.

If anyone would like to pursue it further, the dealer in question is Quinby's Gun & Sport, Route 313 & Applebutter Road, Dublin, PA 18917; 215.249.1144. They are closed on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Rem
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/05/18 11:22 PM
Paul,
The photo you sent is of the action flats. I would need to see the BARREL flats, to tell much of anything.
The only thing I could see on the action flats is that it was proofed with powder T, and a partial serial number.
I don't need another, but, thanks for thinking of us.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Brian Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/06/18 02:54 AM
I guess I never got that memo. Having Dan Rossiter turn a Sterlingworth 16 into a Faux A Grade. new wood, POW grip, his brother is doing the late A Grade engraving. Retains Sterlingworth serial number and not putting fake grade on water table. no one can confuse it with an A. Besides it will have awesome European walnut.
Need another 16 like I need another wife but what the hell.
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Has the 16 ga become obsolete? - 02/06/18 02:51 PM
Ted:

Sorry. I thought I sent both sets of proof marks. I'll send the barrel flats now.

Paul
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