To begin with, I own dozens and dozens of shotguns, auto shotguns, pump shotguns, over and under shotguns, and quite a few side by side shotguns, including A.H. Fox, L.C. Smith, Lefever, Miroku, AyA Model 100, Huglue, Stevens, and my latest love, a 12 gauge 2 3/4" 30" barreled 1959 V. Bernardelli S. Uberto I Charles Daly import, choked improved modified and full.

Bladeswitcher sold me my Bernardelli, and it weighs 6 3/4 pounds and handles well, it fits me, and I'm just head over heels in love with it.

I occasionally shoot doves, but otherwise I have no real use for a light game gun choked full and improved modified.

I shoot skeet two or sometimes three times a week with Blade and my friends, and it's seldom we shoot trap or sporting clays, and if we do I certainly have better trap guns than my Bernardelli.

My Berardelli is nice, but it's a $600 gun, with an added half inch pad, and has no real collector's value.

My inclination is to ship the gun to Mike Orlen and specify about .008 in the right barrel and .012 in the left, so that I could shoot skeet, 16 yard trap, casual sporting clays, and even hunt with it.

But while I regularly have other guns choked tighter than modified reamed out, something about this Berardelli makes me pause and want to ask for advice from devoted side by side gun fanciers.

The late Michael McIntosh thought that no choke in the right barrel and .015 in the left was the perfect side by side upland game gun.

I've always wanted a gun choked that way, but don't own one.

Or I might have both barrels choked .012, because I've found a tight improved cylinder does all I want to do with a shotgun.

Any ideas, from the board?

Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Probably the first thing you should do is to determine what you would be using it mostly for and pattern it with the loads and distances that you would be shooting it. My SxS's are all choked IC/MOD and I do well with them. My first SxS was choked MOD/FULL and I did surprisingly well with it. It seemed to me that an open choke would hurt me more at distance than a tighter one would close. I believe it was either McIntosh or Hill that suggested that a double would be best choked at a two choke difference than one, instead of IC/MOD to try SKT/MOD as an example.
I've never had a double opened and one member here has said that he wouldn't consider it. If you have had good work and success then I don't see why you shouldn't if you want it to be more versitle. Incidently, I just picked up a SxS 12 ga. choked .003 right and .011 left, and after patterning it at 20 & 30 yrds. I find it amazing how little constriction is needed. This particular gun was purchased expressly for woodcock and grouse hunting next year.
Hope this helps,
Karl

What if someone were to save the cost of barrel work, and just shoot a few rounds of each of the clays disciplines and see what happens. See if the gun can smoke 'em. The next gun doesn't seem like it's too far down the road, maybe it'll be choked differently. I wouldn't be opposed to choke work, but you could get the next six hundred dollar gun for a pretty good discount if this one might have a place as is, like in the duck blind. Only thoughts, nothing more.

Naturally before doing anything with chokes one patterns the gun and tries it at shooting clay disks or disks with "wings" first. From logical standpoint DT SxS choked 3/4-full makes no sense. What would make sense are cyl-1/2, cyl-3/4 or full, skeet or 1/4-3/4 or skeet or 1/4-full. I mean, in hunting gun why would you want two single barrel shotguns fused into one with very close performing choke combination? Why not just go with modern good handling light weight semi-auto and 1/4 or half choke tube installed?

Craig, that gun MIGHT be good in the duck blind . . . if the poster hunts ducks, and if he were able to shoot lead in it. But as is, it's clearly choked too tight for steel. So unless he shoots ducks and wants to pay for the more expensive nontox loads, opening it up to nothing tighter than mod would seem to be a good idea. Then he could even shoot steel at ducks.

I have one 1894 Remington with mod/full, one SK/SK, and five with LM/LM. If skeet was more my game it would be IC/IC and that way you could still shoot most any game. I'm not a great shot, but do shoot three times a week and don't feel handicapped with LM/LM. I do my own choke work so the cost is not a factor.

I have no problem with opening chokes in non collector guns. Cylinder or near cylinder bores have always produced the best patterns for me at the ranges I normally shoot, which is seldom over 30 yards. Modern shot cups provide their own "choke" that the old timers didn't have the benefit of. A couple of my English guns are factory bored cylinder and full, which certainly gives a wide latitude for variable shots. I like them. To each their own.

I support opening them.

Because they are ugly.



Or send it to me and I'll hunt pheasants with it in heavy wind.

I suppose it isn't cost effective but I put tubes in one of my guns and then it is the right gun every day, no matter the game, the conditions, or regulations.

One of my favorite "hunting Shotguns" is a Husqvarna hammerless SxS that was originally choked Full & Fuller. I had it opened to Improved Cylinder & Modified; and have been very pleased with the results. I also use it for informal Sporting Clays.

Its probably not good idea to do so with an expensive collector graded SxS, but great for a user shotgun.

JERRY

Open her up and shoot the heck out if it. No point choked too tight to serve your needs.

Why not go with CYL/LM? Seems perfect for what you do and you have plenty of other shotgun options anyway.

Leave it alone.
JR

It's not as if you are painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa by opening up a $600 shotgun. It's a lot easier to hit birds inside 30-35 yards with an open choke than it is with what's in it already.

Might be best to just open them up and not tell us about it. This always strirs up those who feel original specs are not to be altered. The term "don't ask, don't tell" originated on a BBS like this one over a question like this. Not about gays in the service but altering barrel chokes or renewing case color. Original is everything to them.

I had a friend who was a retired two star general who was in favor of both females and gays in both the military and combat. He said that way he could say ladies first and not catch PC hell. He is extended female status to Gays as well. He never got into PC speak much. Hell of a guy to drink with while waiting for a big rock fish to bite.

Truth is that every gun maker would give you what ever you asked for and paid for. They choked 90% as M and F as a default setting. Not some complex reason. Any maker would open your chokes up if you returned it back to them. I've seen several high dollar Trap guns which had been opened up and had the Full crossed out and Factory Mod marking applied right under it. I had a Ithaca which had started out as 4&4 which were Full and Full but was returned to Ithaca where they opened it up to 0&4 and choke mark has been changed as well. I think it cost $3-4 to do that and about the same to change the front bead. Could not have been much more than that. My uncle was on the frugal side.

I have a sorta unusual approach for a Full-Mod 32" gun that recently moved in and took over. I had Toby refurbish a Woodward BLE pigeon gun with a thin, cut-to-26" barrel. My specs were for a spootin' clays piece. Toby did his usual fab job. Recently, I have been shooting more skeet than SC and I wanted to practice with this gun. So, I started feeding it 3/4 oz loads and thinking of it as a 28 bore. I confess I can shoot a wee bit higher scores with a M-21 Skeet 26", but when I do my part the JW makes impressive smoke balls of clays. This is fun shooting.

DDA

Back in the day when M/F was standard fare there weren't any plastic shot cups to make guns shoot tighter than they do now with plastic shot cups. Gil

I understand Larry. I wasn't thinking to start hunting something that's of no interest, but a few boxes of expensive nontox could easily be covered under the cost of barrel work.

There have been threads about the slick shooting honeymoon period with a new gun. What if a little bit of shooting with it loses some of that head over heels feeling? I'm still not opposed to the barrel work, but I don't know if it's always a good idea. There's a bunch of other choices to reach for.

Easier to hit them, perhaps. Kill them outright? Not so much.

But PLEASE mark the barrels after they are rechoked. I would not be interested in a gun that is opened up like that - not because of collector value. It just doesn't suit my hunting.

I've given some more thought to the matter, and decided that I already have a beautiful 1905 Lefever I Grade at Rod Gate's getting the chokes opened from modified and full to skeet and tight improved cylinder.

I think I'll leave my Benardelli alone, until I get the Lefever back, and shoot that awhile and see how I like those chokes.

My Bernardelli was never intended to be a target gun. It was made to shoot ducks and pheasants and long range birds with. It tosses round, even, tight patterns the way it is now.

Maybe it's good to keep one light game gun, with tight chokes, to go squirrel hunting or dove hunting with.

When you have a bushytail in the top of an big oak tree, or doves whistling around over a harvested field, no choke is too tight.

Besides, I've been wanting to try out Polywads, anyway.

My factory spreader loads are hot and nasty, and it might be fun to load a bunch of spreaders to shoot skeet with.

I just hate leaving a perfectly good gun, alone, and not trying to improve it.

But then again, I hate to mess with a perfectly good gun, and take the chance of messing up something that's good to start with.

I guess that's why I keep accumulating all those old shotguns.

Thank goodness. Now I can sleep easy...

Choke is overrated in my book. I have a reconditioned Parker 16 that at one time had two inches of barrel cut off and it is now cylinder and cylinder and I shoot the best pheasant hunting with that gun. With todays modern loads and my own loads it patterns very well 30-40 yards out.

Great, just don't try to sell it to me.

Cylinder, or certainly nothing tighter than IC, are more valuable chokes than most people realize. The late Bob Brister, comparing IC and full, wrote: "Full choke is a demanding mistress; improved cylinder a forgiving friend." And he had good things to say about cylinder too:

"I do know that at 25 yards a pure cylinder barrel will throw one of the deadliest game-getting patterns you ever looked at . . . " And Mr. Brister looked at a lot of patterns.

Doubt that I'd want a gun choked C/C unless it were a pure woodcock gun. Some choke in the tight barrel can come in handy. But the combination of cylinder and the right loads will put a lot of birds in the freezer. And it's really all you need at American skeet, assuming you're shooting at least 3/4 oz of 8 1/2's or 9's.

Did Mr. Brister ever (mistakenly) refer to cylinder as choke? I'd be surprised to know that he did.

SRH

I know some said that German guns were often 3/4-full or fuller-fuller because Fritzie hunted them "chicken sized turkeys" from tree branches deep in the woods or shot bird by removing slinged gun from shoulder (many old German guns have sling swivels) before shooting therefore needing longer reach. I always thought they choked guns that way so we could open the chokes to our own liking.
As I stated previously some of the most practical guns were made by people from cultures with little upland hunting experience. Recently examined SKB Royal Light1/4-full choke combo underscores this notion.

I did spot one quote: " . . . pure-cylinder choke (no choke at all) . . . " Expect he did that because some people do refer to cylinder as a choke rather than the absence of choke. But what he put in parentheses cleared up his reference, I think. But it's usually thrown into discussions of choke, or certainly should be. And ends up being included in the general category.

Have them cut to .010 and .020 and go forth and break targets and kill birds. It isn't perfect for any one thing but that combination has served me well in all shooting, from skeet to pheasants and everything in between for a very long time. MKII

Mark, gunsmiths are lucky that so many people (like me!) are still looking for the magic combination!

Light Modified seems to be the way to go if one has single barrel. With double one would want loose left and tighter right barrel. Opposite would work for left hand/eye dominant person. Stuff like 3/4-full or full-extra full make no sense to me. That is just like having single barrel gun with full choke.

Since most doubles fire the right barrel with the front trigger, this worthless advice makes no sense in most American upland hunting situations. And the relationship between being left handed and left eye dominant and choke selection suggests that you may be drinking heavily much earlier than usual today.

But why would we expect good and rational double gun advice from a guy like you... a pretender and internet fake who doesn't own even one lousy double gun? Stick to what you know and go steal a kishka.

The front trigger fires the more openly choked barrel which is right for sXs and bottom barrel for O/U when set up for right hand shooter. My numero uno recommendation for new shooter has been PB 'Essential', 'White Wing' or 'Black Wing' with choke tube system. In 12ga these weigh right around 7lb and are quintessential "knockabout' doubles of modern age. Great expensive all around shotguns.

So why don't you follow your own advice Jagermeister? And why does a guy who doesn't own even one lousy double gun, either side by side or over-under, feel the pathetic need to make recommendations about guns that he has no personal experience with?

Do you also spend time on car forums posting about cars you never owned or drove, or on golf forums giving advice on equipment or techniques you have never tried? How sick!

I suggest ribless Beretta 0/U with choke tubes over SxS because given equal weight and fit the 0/U presents less felt recoil when the trigger is pulled the first time (lower barrel goes off).

Jag

You shouldn’t steal. It’s not nice. If you get caught at Wegmans they’ll ban you and you will have to shop at Piggly Wiggly.

I see you give advice on golf. How do I fix a snap hook?

OP: open one and leave the other be. Piss everyone off.


__________________________
If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?

I don't give advice on cars or golf. I don't know anything about golf. I will be at Wegman's soon to pick up some Radewska spring water, NY honey, fresh bread,....I will drop by Cabela's Gun Library to see if they have anything interesting in stock. Perhaps something French in 16ga with spreader choked right barrel.

“I don’t know anything about golf.”

Neither do I. That’s why I asked. I’m actually not horrible. 17/18 handicap. A very wise man at St Andrews said that is right where the gentleman golfer should be. Much less and he is neglecting his business. Much more he is neglecting his golf. Scots and Canadians are ok in my book for inventing the two greatest sports in the world. Hockey is the other of course.

Feliz Navidad everyone.


_______________________
Luksusowa

_______________________
Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!
https://youtu.be/YR5ApYxkU-U
The roast beast and pudding thread brought me here.

Perhaps you should give advice on drooling, and tire kicking, and making shit up, because you don't own any double guns, and much of the advice you provide on them is wrong. Your advice on reloading with the use of Grex shot buffer was obviously a lie, as was what you told us about the effectiveness of a recoil pad on a Remington 870 pump shotgun you had on Layaway, but never took possession of.

I'll bet the guys at Cabela's Gun Library can't wait to have you waste their time again.

I need some more of Radewska mineral water, NY "Wild Honey", babka, Empire uncured turkey bacon,.....Cabela's lists some Bismuth in #5 available soon to be listed out of stock at that location.

I have no comments to make on cars or game of golf. Speaking of nice knockabout guns there is GunsInternational #100959779. Wonderful seven pounder with IC, Mod choke tubes provided and 3" chamber to boot. This is early tubed version with matte finished receiver. Nice plain blonde walnut. Ooops, I meant French walnut. The price is fair and may be a little less if cash is offered. It doesn't hunt to ask nicely.

To go back to original question..... I would open them chokes up. Don't see much use for combo listed unless one does Turkey hunting or BK shot for larger game.

No Jagermeister, you wouldn't "open them chokes up."

The reason you wouldn't "open them chokes up" is because you first have to actually own a double shotgun in order to "open them chokes up." But you don't own even one lousy double gun, so the only thing you can open is your mouth to eat your bread and kishka.

Don't bother making any cash offer on any guns on Guns International either. We all know that you are too cheap to follow through and actually buy it, or any other double. You remind me of some people I've known who have Harley Davidson jackets, tee shirts, belt buckles, and even tattoos... but they don't even own a motorcycle. Pathetic!

I do not own any Harley Davidson jackets, tee shirts, belt buckles,......I have no interest in motorcycles and do not discuss them. I did hear that Harley Davidson motorcycles were mostly made in India. Not sure if true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

But you discuss double shotguns that you do not own, and never will own???

So why do you think anyone here would take someone so pathetic seriously?

No interest in cars. Strike one X.
No interest in motorcycles. Strike two XX.
No interest in hockey. Strike three XXX
No interest in golf. Strike fore! XXXX
Doesn’t smoke. Strike five XXXXX
Doesn’t drink. Strike six XXXXXX
Eats gourmet Canadian
pies instead of standard Strike seven XXXXXXX
American pies

Shame we’re not bowling. Three frames from perfect.


_______________________
Golf is like a love affair. If you don’t take it seriously, it’s no fun. If you do take it seriously, it breaks your heart. Arthur Daley

My double 20, 16 and 12 gauges are choked IC/M except for the 16 Parker hammer 0 grade which is cylinder right and full left, as it came from the factory.

1/4-3/4 or no choke-full does make for versatile combination. I have only 1/4 choke as an option.

No problem from me opening chokes. On the other hand, I shoot skeet and 5 stand with whatever chokes are in the gun. Trap requires a bit of choke. Otherwise open them to whatever you like.