It's made on pre-64 Winnie action. I luv engine tuning on the bolt, follower, the action must be honed quite well, since it's as smooth as 'ole MS "butterhandle". It also has island sight, barrel band front sight and the action/barrelblueing und polish is just gorgeous. The stock has lovely streaking and glorious rounded red recoil pad is installed to perfection. I think $3500 is very good price for one in 99% condition. Feedback please.
PS. It's "head and shoulders" abouve Dakota.

As an historical art form, it sounds great. As a shooting machine? I'd rather have a current production Dakota/Remington/Winny

Sounds like a good deal to me. I too would prefer it to a Dakota or whatever semi-custom is out there today. Do you have pics of it?

Is the gun serial numbered in the G&H series? If not, it may be someone else's custom work and merely barrelled by G&H. If this is the case, the gun may be somewhat overpriced. Comments?

I have not bought it and have no pics, but it looks like .300WeaMag at Roger Bain site except it has red pad, G&H rear island sight, and 2 piece top mount, and throw away Redfied scope. No side-mount, thank God. The thing has been marked on tag as Winchester with no takers, and I feel bad about that. Sorry, I don't remember the G&H # which apprears next to co. name on top of the barrel. The caliber appears on left hand side of the barrel just ahead of receiver ring. This would be my first American classic long gun. Should I bring it home?
PS. Yes, it's in G&H serial # range. It's not just a rebarrel job by them.

why would you guys take a dakota or remington. or whatever over a G&H. i would like to here the reason. a shooting machine would be a ar15 or fal etc. correct? also why is a redfield scope a throwaway. thanks mc

I'm not a new gun/rifle guy, but I would think my Kimber SuperAmerica 22lr rifle will out shoot any of the M52 sporters.
Rifles just gotta shoot on.

Jagermeister,

If you can get he barrel number and share that with us it might tell us a little more.

Lowell,
Not sure what a Kimber .22 has to do with this subject but I've heard you say it very accurate. There is a common language when talking about how well a .22 or other rifle shoots and that the size of the groups. Pick a day with no wind and shoot five five-shot groups at fifty yards, average the groups then let us know what that was. Then we will all know how your rifle is compared to others.

About the best shooting 52 I ever owned that I would carry in the field was a 13,000 series gun made about 1928 or 1929. It was an unaltered slow lock with original factory trigger. It would put them into an inch all day long at 100 yards if I could remember what ammo I was supposed to be shooting. These new guns may shoot into .900 all day long but I don't see much difference between .900 and an inch. My Model 1922 serial number 251 with issue barrel puts Wolf Target into ragged holes at 50. My garden is only 50 yards from the house so I will probably never shoot that one at the 100 yard mark. I wouldn't trade that little hand stocked beauty for nine Kimbers.

MP.
"Dakota, or Remington, or whatever over a G&H."
I take that as a, new rifle - old rifle thing!
My Kimber's test target.
50yard, 5 shot group, .220 center to center.
Remington Match XTRA Plus ammo.
It maybe the difference between thru a crow's eye, and blowin' his peckin' beak off.
Yep, those old leaded and scrubbed-out 52 barrels are for the cabinet bound.

Today's rifles have better, more uniform metalurgy, CNC machining, adn are bedded better, hence better repeatability. Most popular, modern centerfires will shoot MOA out of the box. You couldn't say that about most old M70's.

Regarding Redfield - they are out of business. For my money, Leupold is the only way to go

.220" or ragged hole, it's the same thing, except that my ammo is cheaper. It really doesn't matter what gun you shoot, as long as you like it. I like old ones. My old 1922 Springfield is going to be shooting ragged holes long after I'm gone, but then so is your Kimber.

Old fashion elbow grease, and a stiff wire brush has taken the life out of many older barrels.
My Kimber has seen nothing but a cotton patch from the first cleaning on.
I've shot a number of older model Anschutz rifles, who's barrels were so spotless, they couldn't hit the birdbath in the garden at fifty.

You obviously were not the previous owner of my Savage-imported barrel-banded Anschutz 54 Sporter!

I too have a mighty accurate Savage/anschutz, complete with a fully adjustable trigger. That lil thing shoots a damn sight better than I do. Oh, add me to the group preffering the G&H on a pre '64 to a Dakota....I dont have to think long about that one.
Steve

Actually it's oxide from surface of Al rods. Those breakdown ones with joints are the worst culprits.
I will try to drop by tomorrow and get that # off the barrel. If I don't get the rifle I can always use couple packs of 350gr loads for my .375.

So Herr Jagd Fuhrer, if I could digress back to the original question - If you can get your hands on a real G&H for the price you quoted, I would urge you to do it. I will certainly agree that the average out of the box, plastic stocked Savage will shoot with more consistency than most earlier rifles of any make. Likewise, a Super Black Eagle is a better killing machine than any double I can think of. But I really do not care. Neither it nor the the plastic stocked rifle has much of a soul. I suspect just a touch of our own imortality is tied up in the souls of those others who built and used these older weapons that so many of us on this board have learned to appreciate. Take that 7mm out and take a moose with it this fall, and you have added to the story it represents. Give it to a son or nephew two decades from now and that hunt will live with him. Take out that Savage, and you killed a moose.

And you are right. Treat it to a worthy piece of glass.

I had high hopes for Wolf with my new barrel because it's something I can get up here, plus reasonable priced but no luck. One thing about a .22 is you have to pay for the accuracy. Remington-Eley black box $11.50 and RWS R-50 $16 a box.

I think it will go for $3200 cash. Lets remember it's first week of June.

...and the best for last, Eley Tenex @ 18.00 per box.
If you can't wring out the best with these, you need a different rifle.

If it really is a full-fleged Griffin & Howe sporter, it is an ecellent buy in 99% condition at $3500. I regularly follow the inventory at Griffin & Howe. Officially numbered rifles typically sell for $5500 and up in "excellent condition. They often don't take that long to sell.

Rifles customized by Griffin & Howe, but not assigned a number, sell for much less. They typically have recived only part of the total package, stock, metal work, not barrel, for example. Check the current inventory on the G & H web site and you will see the difference.

The true Griffin & Howe sporter will have have " No. XXXX Griffin & Howe Inc. New York, NY " or something very similar on top of the barrel. Serial numbers in the mid two thousand range were made in the mid 60's. Griffin & Howe should be able to tell you by phone when the rifle in question was made.

A classic Griffin & Howe sporter may or may not be as absolutely accurate as a current state of the art high tech rifle, but it has all the esthetic and emotional appeal of a high end shotgun. It should mount just as quickly and naturely as one as well.

Obviously classic Griffin & Howe sporter do not appeal to everyone. If it appeals to you, I suggest you consider it seriously. Just like high-end shotguns, fit is important. Griffin & Howe stock dimensions reflect the body type and shooting style of the original purchaser. the They are not easily changed as they are on a shotgun.

I've been watching this one for a while and surprised it's still there.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=6829

To continue the hijack, .22RF's prefer the ammo that shoots well in them.

My East German Haenal is very good copy of an Anschutz. After shooting ALOT of different brands through it including 10x. The best accuracy was with a very old lot of Lapua that I found in a gunshop. I have one box left from that brick for 'special occassions'. Second best in this rifle is Russian Junior Brass. I haven't seen it in over a decade and it was apparently only available for a few months. I bought an entire case of the lot # it preferrs. I have 2500 rounds left.

With the Lapua I have a couple of targets (5 shots) that went just over 1/2" at 100 yards on a perfectly calm cool morning at Ben Avery. The Junior B will shoot at 1" on a calm day but won't match the Lapua.

Paul doesn't mind.
When at the range I will shoot at the 50 meter targets, never pushed the rifle at 100yds tho'.
Tenex is a good hunting cartridge, you can hit a squirrel or crow right smack in the brainpan everytime.

The reason for me buying my Kimber new, is barrel maintenance and ammo selection right off the bat. No bricks of Stingers and a good wirebrushings for me.
So MP, a factory testing of .220(center to center, mind you) is outstanding for a sporter, with proper break-in it'll most likely do better.
Musta miss my techy one ragged holeless report eh!

Vangulil, it looks almost exactly like .300WinMag they have listed. The one I looked at has nicer wood and pad, it has 2 piece mounts, but the bolt knob has identical engraving.

That is interesting about the 2 piece mount. DOes it have back up irons? I wonder why it does not have the side mount? Even without the classic side mount, I still think it is a great buy and would much prefer it to any semi-custom made today. Please post some pics for us after you go back to the store!

There's just something not quite right about a G&H rifle in .300 WinMag. I guess I'm just a little sentimental or maybe getting a little old. By the way, Tudurgs, my little Savage imported Model 54 sporter, Leupold shod, was another one hole shooter with very common ammunition. Unfortunately it is in the possession of a friend who has a small collection of "My Father's Guns". Foolishly, I have kept souvenier targets from all guns mentioned. Occasionally I get them out for a look. Murphy

If its a G&H at 32-3500 I can't see how you will get hurt and can always get your money back.

Here is a semicustom 7 mm Mag from the 60's that I picked up a few years ago
It was restocked by a "MM Salem" (not a Monty) and still have no idea who did it.The mags may not be as desirable as an 06 but still have some appeal.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/469098.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/469099.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/469101.JPG

I ask what the average of five five-shot groups at 50 yards was, not a test target from the factory.


Last winter we put a new barrel on my Stevens 44 ½ and I have been testing ammo. Problem is I’m stuck with what’s available here in Alaska but the black-box Remington seem to work OK. The other day I went to the range with one of my schuetzen rifles and when setting out wind flags I notice there was not even a breeze. I had my 22 with me and I wanted to test off the forearm. The majority of the single shots I shoot all shoot better off the barrel than the forearm. I fired a couple of foulers then fired three five-shot groups off the barrel then two more off the forend.

I can only report on what I can report on!
...and that's the factory target packed with the rifle.
The targets I've shot off the bench are long gone in the trash.
Anyway, thats some keen shooting you've done!

It's G&H #2546 (Winchester action #556837) chambered for .264 Winchester Magnum cartridge. Must have been made shortly after this cartridge made it's bebut. That was RMs pride and joy (his initials appear in stock oval), since he sure took care of this rifle. RM sure knew how to order a fine rifle.
As stated it handles beautifully just like a fine shotgun not something I expected after seeing weight figures for used sporters at Griffin & Howe site.

Paul, not for sure what the 264 amounted to, but maybe you've plenty of heads of plains game in W KNIEI?
I'd look for an older model that wasn't such a speed demon.

There is no need to cause noise pollution. Down the isle there was a new Kimber of Yonkers in 7-08 for $950.
I'm looking at a box of .375H&H 'Heavy Mag' and with 200yrd. 0 the drop for 270gr 'Interlock' slug is only 7.8" at 300yrds (Vo 2870fps probably out of 24" tube), good Lord!
PS. Numero 2546 is a gorgeous rifle.

G & H 2546 sounds wonderful. I look forward to seeing pictures after you bring it home.

The 264 Winchester was introduced in or around 1958, so it was reasonably well known when 2546 was chambered for it.

Few rifles handle like a G & H, with or without the G & H side mount.

Also, G & H stands ready to service their rifles, should one ever need it. Given the long-standing history of the firm, this will probably continue to be true long afer many contemporary firms are long gone. G & H can probably polish out RM's initals and replace them with yours, if you decide to go that route.

G&H now offers a provenance service, so finding out who RM was is not as much a research project as it once was. I wouldn't be too quick to rub out Roger Maris' initials. When determining market prices against G&H used rifle prices, bear in mind that after a recent auction, G&H raised the prices of their used G&H rifle inventory by as much as 100% (maybe an exaggeration) because of the results of that auction. After the price increases, used G&H rifles moved rather slowly from the used gun list. Maybe actual sale prices have caught up to the increased asking prices, but it was a slow process that may call for some adjustment of asking prices.

A Bit more highjacking:
I have a Mossberg Model 44 with a bull barrel and the original Mossberg scope. It will shoot 1/2" inch groups all day and would probably do better with a more modern scope installed. The rifle was built in the late 40s and the barrel is pristine.
BTW: I don't know of any conceivable way you can damage the bore with a brass brush or any 22RF as long as its chambered for the amunition being used. I also don't think the brand of ammunition has any bearing either as I own 22s that have had untold thousands of rounds put through them and the barrels remain pristine. This is in the same urban legend category as "Never pry the sideplate off a revolver". I sat at a S&W clinic awhile back and watched the S&W factory gunsmith pry one after another off. I asked and he told me that while tapping will work it takes too much time.
Jim

The thing has lot of charm going for it, and .264Mag goes quite well with a Winnie action made up into rifle at that time. I have handled old .264 Winchester from the same period and they are not in the same league. The caliber is a bit obscure, but one can still find ample supply of 140grainers from Remington in bigger gun shops plus it's just as good as .270Win, 7x64, 6.5x55,....
Italian, have you tried 3-piece aluminium rod from the muzzle end? It will do "wonders" for them groups!

Just one note on the G&H topmount. This is a relatively recent offering, dating from the '70s I believe. The bases are small and light and enable a mounting as low as the scope profile will allow. Repeatability is, in my experience, absolute. I have these on my favorite buffalo gun, which gets shot every couple of years on average. First time at range, the scope goes on, the levers come down, the 300gr loads the rifle was made for go in the mag, and three shots go into under an inch at 100 yards. Without fail. As far as I know this is stll an exclusive G&H offering. It used to be, maybe still is, that you could buy a sidemount and do it yourself. I don't believe that's true of the topmounts. In any case, they are, IMHO, highly desirable, more so than the sidemounts and all other things being equal, I'd prefer a G&H with them to a similar one with the sidemount.

The only thing that's needed is a shiny Leupold in 2.5-8-9-10x.. range with objective diamemter limited by ring height. Fine American "Sheep Rifle" needs a fine MODERN American scope.
The only things I have in reserve is 2-7x rimfire special by Leupold and 2,5x B.Nickel 'Supra' Marburg. Next to 'Ghost' iron, the 2,5x20 with German reticle is perfect choice for stopping rifle , but next to useless on "high plains" sheep/goat rifle.
There is no point in fixing what isn't broken.

Sounds like a nice rifle, I also vote for leaving the original initials on the rifle, at lease until you make an effort to learn who the original owner was. No. 2546 was not in my data-base of over 600 G&H rifles, but it is now. Hope you are able to post a picture.

Murphy, I'm sure if Emil McConnell knew the shock wave of price increases following the auction of his collection he would be amused.

Match shooters all clean their .22's with a brush. I believe that a proper rod guide and a tool steel one piece rod should be used and for rifle that cannot be cleaned from the breech. (like my 44 1/2) I use a pull through made from weed-whacker line for both
patch and brush.



I’ve had enough PM’s and emails about the Stevens .22 I thought I would try to answer all the questions at one time.

The original rifle is a Niedner false-barrel rifle with a 7 ½” .22 short chambering. The rifle was made using a No. 3 Winchester barrel so we got a Green Mountain Winchester No. 3 so a new forearm would not have to be made. The barrel is held by the treads and one screw from the bottom so it will make a good switch-barrel rifle. We followed the information published over the years by Bill Calfee in selecting the spot to cut and crown although with a tapered barrel we could not choose the breech end. The chamber reamer was a Calfee design, no taper, without rim cutter. The barrel is not yet blued and I’m still trying out different ammo to see what it likes. The targets were shot at 50 yards, no wind. About ever 100-200 rounds I clean with a bronze brush. When trying different ammo one wet patch followed by two dry before new ammo. The scope on the new barrel is a 12 power Unertl.

A new screw in barrel held in place eh - not the most rigid platform!
...and such tiny groups?
Something I'd expect from a more modern bolt rifle.

I may have been a bit unclear, the barrel screws into the action and there is keeper screw on the bottom of the action to keep it from backing out. To remove the barrel you loosen the set screw and unscrew the barrel.

MP, you weren't unclear.

By your picture MP, it looks as tho' one piece of the barrel screws into another barrel section? Not into the action.
Could this be?

Something like this!

Yes, the pictures is of the original False-Barrel rifle, the new barrel screws into the frame. Here is a picture of the False-Barrel rifle with the two pieces screwed together. Looks like an ordinary rifle and if one never saw the seam then it looks normal.

What is the "False-barrel rifle."
Something new to me!

Michael where do you find these neat rifles....oh your's is nice too Lowell I really like the cheap scope and rings. I expected to see a Rook shot through the eye.

Around the turn of the century gallery shooting (sort of an indoor Schuetzen shooting) was very popular, they shot .22 shorts at 75 feet offhand in a 100 round match. The final shoot off was at the Zettler gallery in New York City, folks came from all over the USA to compete. A.O. Niedner did some experimenting and decided that a barrel 7 ½” long would not foul with the black-powder shells of the day. So he built himself a gallery rifle with a 7 ½” barrel that is inside of the false-barrel.

If you look at the picture you can see Niedner with his Ballard which has a short barrel as well.

Michael, a very short time before the Emil McConnell auction, I "did not buy" a wonderful G&H numbered Model 52 heavy sporter, about the nicest .22 rifle I'd ever seen that didn't live at my house. It was tagged at $2995.00 and could have been bought for less. Imagine my shock and horror when Emil's Model 52 sold for nearly $15,000. I wonder where "my" $2995.00 Model 52 is today?

Murphy, looking in the rear view mirror can be painful but I think with time the prices will stabilize a little bit, I hope, if not I'm about out of the game. Emil called me one time after he turned down what seems to be an outrages offer on his Kornbrath-Shelhamer Model 52. If he had been alive at the auction when it sold for 58K he would have dropped on the spot.
Would that be a record for a 52 sporter?

$58,000 .22

Do you remember the barrel number of the one that got away?

I guess I misplaced the sale price for the Model 52 in my mind. I only missed it by $45,000.00! I did not record the barrel number of the one I did not buy. I thought it would be there when I changed my mind, so I didn't take any information. I think we can be comfortable assuming that is the "record for a 52 Sporter".

There was a G&H Model-52 in the collection it had a single-lever side mount with a Lyman Alaskan but I don't remember the sale price.

Sorry I missed your post the first go around. I woke up one morning some thirty plus years ago with nothing to do and thought that Niedner guy had lots of swell rifles. So I decided to spend the rest of my life tracking them down.

A few years back I was in a gunshop and saw a rifle that reminded me of some pictures I had seen. I asked to look at it and sure enough it was a G&H, Springfield, 30-06. It was the first one I had seen in the flesh and it was something. It had (I think) a Lyman aperture sight, nice walnut, barrel band sling swivel. The bore was nice and bright and it was in overall fine condition. The best part was I had the money in the gun budget. I coulda picked it up for $800.

Of course I didn't buy it. I had such a severe case of non-buyer's remorse I took an early lunch the next day and went to pick it up--of course it was gone.

Oh well. As Hemingway said, the road to hell is paved with unbought G&H rifles. Or something like that. I've always wanted one since then!!!

Mr. Cooter, they are out there as we speak. No, Michael, the G&H Model 52 that I rejected was not a single lever gun. Oddly enough, it was a very cleanly designed scope block gun. I know that is hard to visualise in a Sporter, but it was a classic with no apologies. It is out there somewhere and will be easy to recognize when it is seen again.

Some of us, at least me, would very much like to learn some of the specifics of the McConnell auction. Is the information available on the web somewhere or could someone share it with us?

For those of us interested in G&H rifles, it would certainly be interesting.

The Emil McConnell collection was sold at J.C. Devine Auction, Catalog 2502 March 13, 2005. You can still get a copy of the catalog at

http://www.jcdevine.com/catalog_services/index.htm

Michael, thanks very much, I have ordered a copy.

Michael do you have any of your books available ?

yes, I have one right here, would like me to read you a story? Sorry it's been one of those days ;-). $30 will get a you a signed book by priority mail, $29.95 not signed.

mjpetrov@acsalaska.net