When I began my meagre "collection" of sxs shotguns I had a plan. It was to acquire a representative example of a field or graded gun from all the American Classic makers. At first I thought that just meant 5 shotguns; a Parker, Lefever, Fox, Ithaca, and L. C. Smith.

Then I discovered Baker, Syracuse Arms, Meriden, Remington and Baltimore Arms. Finally got them and that left Wilkes-Barre Gun Co. No doubt there are others I've missed but that was the scope of my plan.

The Wilkes-Barre eluded me for years. One would come up on the net from time to time, but they were all hammerguns which I didn't count or were priced way beyond my means. They're rare.

Finally one came up, a nice Damascus B Grade in very good shape other than cut barrels. I picked it up today and shot it this afternoon. Everything works and I even shot pretty well with it.

Overjoyed!...Geo











By the way the serial number is 49!

How do you pronounce Wilkes-Barre? Wilkes Bar or Wilkes Barray? ...Geo

I had a smart secretary once from Philly; she said Wilkes Bear, but she spoke Yankee so I'm still not sure.

A friend who was raised there pronounced it wilks bear uh.

That has been the most prevalent pronunciation I've heard. I've never seen a Wilkes Barre shotgun, and hope we can learn a bit more about it, when and how many were made, what grades, etc.

Now that you have a Wilkes Barre double, Jagermeister would advise you to sell it so that your heirs won't be burdened with disposing of it when you depart this good earth.

Geo. Kieth pronounced it right. If you are going to own it you need to talk about how the Manufacturer did.. lol
Nice looking gun by the way !

The manufacturer didn't do so well. Established in 1891, began manufacture in 1892 and bankrupted in 1895. I know of three grades of gun they built, grades A, B, and C. This is the only one I've laid my hands on and I'm impressed with quality of this mid grade.

From what I understand to be the story, a man named Parry worked for Ithaca. He left and opened is own Company in the Parry name building the same guns as he later built at Wilkes-Barre.

He went broke competing with his former employer, and an investment group including a gunmaker named Roth bought his equipment and brought the enterprise along with Mr. Parry and 30 employees to Wilkes-barre. When the company again went broke in 1895, the assets were sold to Ithaca. I may have that right, if not someone will correct me, I am sure...Geo

The butt plate on the gun, which I presume is original, depicts a dog holding a snipe...Geo

It's a wonderful gun! You definitely deserve it

How much of the barrels were chopped off?

I think I should disclose that 67galaxie found and arranged the purchase of the gun and, knowing how I'd been struggling to find one passed the buy along to me. Not sure what I've done to deserve a 'solid' like that, but I deeply appreciate it. He shot the gun with me this afternoon and I think outshot me with my new acquisition!...Geo

I'm not sure Joe, but they're 26" now with no choke at all and don't touch at the muzzle. That's probably why we shot it so well this afternoon at five stand. With no choke at all, I'd guess the barrels started out at 30" or more...Geo

Thank you for the great post, Geo and Congrats!

Geo, now that you've closed the loop on American guns, what next, Italian sports cars? Nice gun, btw. Neat buttplate. Gil

Congratulations, Geo..............I recall that you've been hunting for one of those guns. Wouldn't it be great to have been able to see it when the last hour's work was completed on it in the 1890s?

People who chop barrels should get three days in the 'lectric chair.

SRH

George I had two B grades 10 or 12 years ago but sent them down the road. Bobby

Geo;
On the Lefever do you have both the side-plated SAC guns & the box-lock & trigger-plate actioned guns by the D M Lefever Co.

Geo. The trip does not need to be done yet. You still need a example of a nice gun made in West Virginia. Then how about a late Lefever made in Defiance Ohio? Completely separate gun and company from the original Lefever company. The looking is most of the fun to me.

Miller and Jon, no I only have the LAC Lefevers. Of course there's also the Hopkins and Allen, Colt, and the side-swing George Fox guns out there as well. And maybe Bob Cash will donate a 21 if I get Stan to ask him nicely?...Geo

The great thing is that a "collection" is never really complete.

loverly ole gon...

Congrats, George. I heard this was being arranged. Nice gun, nice collaboration, nice friendship. Enjoy!

Geo,

I am glad Keith was able to make this happen for you. Along with the G.Fox, Boston Sideswing (there are 3 examples of), you also ought to have the Semi-Hammerless and the Whitmore patent Hammerless.
Forehand & Wadsworth, a graded Torkelson, Tobin, H&R/Deeley, etc...
Ever seen an engraved N.R. Davis?

For the love of doubles,

John

Geo, collecting can be fun but you always find new things to collect if you are lucky. I collect doubles with different locking/opening systems. When I started I knew of four or five different ones. It seems like there are two dozen or more of them from the simple to vastly overly complex. I am sure a few remain for me to find.

I tried to collect all different species of ducks seen on the Chesapeake Bay and it’s surrounding rivers. I had a full cape head mount of each of them for my wall. You’d see just the front of the breast, neck and head mounted on a nice looking Walnut plaque with an engraved plate noting species, date taken and location. Had over two dozen mounted and my still to find list was getting shorter and shorter. I did it to make fun of my hunting buddies who lusted for that big buck mount for their walls. Had a real nice line of them on my gun room wall until I had an infestation of some bug which seemed to like them better than I did. Ended up throwing them all out which made my wife happier.

Jon, I had a nice mount of a sharp-tail grouse a friend did for me. The cat climbed the bookcase and attacked it for some reason. Its still on the wall but one wing looks kind of funny...Geo

Looks like they cleaned up the butt plates of their forerunner Parry Fire Arms Co.

Good observation Researcher. I'm glad you posted because my gun came with two old Wilkes-Barre newspaper articles which detail the Parry connection and history of the Wyoming Valley gun manufacturing saga. If I can get them scanned and posted they may be of some value to you...Geo

George. nice, should I take your name off my C grade ?
Both of mine have that buttplate and I believe they made a D grade as well. I grew up in Carnegie and I say Wilkes -Bear but that doesn’t mean much.

When my team started running Porsches a few years ago the boss had a stern meeting that we were to call them Porsche-Ahh. He gave a few people a hard time in the early weeks. I got a good laugh the day I was calling a big dealership trying to find a part and asked for Porsche-ah parts and the lady replied smug as shit. “Oh you mean Porsch-“

No Marks_21, don't take my name off anything. If you'd like I'll get you a Will drafted that settles the matter completely...Geo

"I am glad Keith was able to make this happen for you. Along with the G.Fox, Boston Sideswing (there are 3 examples of), you also ought to have the Semi-Hammerless and the Whitmore patent Hammerless. Forhand & Wadsworth, a graded Torkelson, Tobin, H&R/Deeley, etc...Ever seen an engraved N.R. Davis?"

And don't overlook the Hollenbeck Gun Co, Three Barrel Gun Co, and Royal Gun Co. side x sides just to name three more!

I’ll be the witness!

Topgun, the matter boils down to an appropriate (personal) definition of 'American Classic'. First it has to be classic, so that cuts out CSMC and Winchester in my mind. Then classic must be further defined by quality which is very much in the eye of the beholder. Finally, classic must have been widely distributed, successful, and long lived, although that might have weeded out Wilkes-Barre if I'd been unsuccessful in ever finding one.

I'm not much familiar with the other guns mentioned in your post, but I had a N. R. Davis which contrary to its advertising, was not "as good as the best". I think of Tobin as Canadian, H&R as pre-fab British, Hollenbeck et al as precursor to other American Clasics. De gustibus non est disputandum...Geo

Top gun, I have an engraved N.R. Davis. Not many around. . I’m away from my pics, but can get you one if you remind me in a week or so. The Davis has sort of the profile of the American Arms Whitmore patent, but different mechanics with a square “Greener” crossbolt.

I did some articles on Perry and Wilkes Barre about 10 years ago for DGJ.
There were 4 grades of Hammerless guns. A, B, C, D and a few special guns.

Thanks Bob, I'll look for the articles, though I remember reading them about that long ago. Anyone have the issue information?...Geo

Brother George
I wouldn't call the Hollenbeck, TBG, and Royal Gun company double guns precursors to what are known as the "American Classics", given that the first examples weren't available prior to 1901; but they were certainly high quality and expensive guns for the time, which surely had a lot to do with the inability of the three iterations of this company to sell in sufficient quantities and survive. Most of their production was in drillings, which models seem to show up for sale regularly; but if you ever get a chance to handle one of the Hollenbeck double guns I think you'll be impressed.

Yes Daryl, I'd surely like to see your engraved N.R. Davis; as I've certainly never seen one personally. And while you're posting photos of that gun be sure to share pix of your 16 gauge Krupp barreled Hollenbeck double gun; that's one heck of a nice piece! Tom

"I did some articles on Perry and Wilkes Barre about 10 years ago for DGJ. There were 4 grades of Hammerless guns. A, B, C, D and a few special guns."

Bob, why not post some pix of your Wilkes-Barre collection; as I recall you had some very nice examples.

I'll have to defer to your knowledge Tom. I see the drillings from time to time, but don't know I've ever seen one of their doubles.

My thinking on the Hollenbeck connected companies was in reference to my recollection of his previous interests in Smith, Ithaca and Baker. Not sure I even have that right...Geo

George
I've no idea how many Hollenbeck, TBG, and Royal Gun Co double guns were made; but do know they are very uncommon; and I believe there are more Hollenbeck marked double guns than those marked Three Barrel Gun Co. I have one example of each; and except for the makers name, these two models seem identical mechanically. I don't have an example marked Royal Gun Co; but the frame profile on those models are different, and the location of the pins on each side of the frame has been changed so there are obviously some internal differences I've yet to explore. Perhaps Frank Lefever modified the Royal double gun during his tenure? The early Hollenbeck marked catalog copy I have lists grades and prices for the Hollenbeck double gun; but the 1908 and 1909 Three Barrel Gun Co catalog copies I have make no mention of a double gun, nor does an original copy of a 1909 Royal Gun Company catalog owned by our friend Brett Farley; but the company obviously made double guns marked Royal Gun Company. I believe I recall Researcher stating that the Royal Gun Company double gun models were assigned a separate serial number block than the drillings (?); but the early Hollenbeck and TBG double gun serial numbers were sequenced right along with the drilling models. I hope to do a little more research on these models some day; but in the short run you can find 3-4 Hollenbeck double guns on the Cherry's Fine Guns website, and you'll likely look a long time before you find another example of a Hollenbeck double gun listed anywhere.

I believe this is Daryl's N.R. Davis

ROTFLMAO

SRH

Tom, I did check the Hollenbecks on the Cherry site. I think you guys may be right about this one; I'd never seen one. Dang, I'm gonna need to buy another gun...Geo

Incredible, heh.
O.M

O.M

Quite a come down in quality from this 1900 N.R. Davis --



through the Davis Warner Arms Corp. and then Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. to these guns put together at the J. Stevens Arms Co. factory after Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. tanked in the mid-1930s --



But, I still don't think they ever equaled a Parker Bros., Lefever Arms Co., etc.

George, another one you really need is a Charles E. Sneider from Baltimore hammerless sidelock.

Mr. Moses, there was certainly nothing improper about my friend finding and making a deal on the Wilkes-Barre I just bought. The seller asked for interest in his gun, my friend inquired and was quoted a price. He knew of my interest and shared the information the seller had given him, I paid the purchase price and I took possession of the gun and filled out the form the store required even though the gun was pre-1898 and paid the fee for this.

I'm unsure of what point you are making in the above posts, but if you are implying something improper, I resent it...Geo

Mr Newburn, please do not misunderstand me.
My posts are in relation to the misunderstanding already in this post.
That being mentioned twice that it was Kieth & not 67galaxie that found & arranged the deal here.
Did you not notice that ? read back.
O.M

Too many good guns, too little time. A man's got to know his limitations...Geo

OK, sorry for the snap-back Mr. Moses. But my friend Keith is 67galaxie, one in the same...Geo

How is the cat? Might look worse than the grouse.

Nah, daughter's cat. She took it with her when she moved out though, thank goodness...Geo

In that case it is me who is also sorry that I commented on that anomaly without knowledge of 67galaxies real name.
O.M

Topgun
I sold off my Wilkes-Barre guns. All that I can say is I had to get an Optimus. At one time I had 30 of them. 4 or 5 were D grades.

Bob, please tell me you kept pictures. I would really like to see what a D Grade Wilkes-Barre looked like...Geo

I did but I don't post pictures of other peoples guns. There is a D grade on Puglisi right now.

My name is Keith Sirmans sir

Another N.R. Davis & Sons with Cross bolt, for those that are interested. The early Davis Hammerless models had floorplates and the internals varied greatly. I will start a new Thread with some questions I have.









John

Thanks Bob, I looked at the one on Puglisi. Its a dandy...Geo

What a thin lever

I need a butt stock and butt plate for a Meriden 12ga. sxs. I will be the 6th generation to own and fire this gun if I can put it back together.