Lot #163 of the recent Gavin Gardiner auction is a good sample of gun built to Dig Hadoke's Theory. The gun is a BV1-OQ1 gun with replaced barrels and a replaced stock. CC7 is "Shootable but needs expensive repairs or restored with stock and barrels replaced." My charts show a BV1-OQ1-CC7 = $6196. The gun hammered at 8,000 BPS; 1.4 exchange rate makes it $11,200 and 30% buyers premium plus shipping makes it $14,800. It takes CC5 (Minor repairs needed or proper restoration accomplished - OE barrels and stock) to CC4 (heavy use but no abuse) to make that much money.

Input requested.

DDA

DDA, regarding the offerings from the Little British Isles, I was always told that if you have the frame & forend iron one could do a total renovation & call it as new?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

With an airplane the only thing required by law to be original is the serial number plate. Every piece on the plane other than the small plate can be a replacement and it is still recognized by the FAA as being the factory airplane.

DDA,

The new barrels are from the maker, in this case Purdey. The new stock is from someone else--the description doesn't specifically state to Purdey standards, but it looks well done. Can you find another Purdey with new barrels for $14K?

Ken

I feel the pain of the dealer who recently sold me a high condition 1911 bar in iron hammer Purdey pigeon gun, original Whitworth 30" barrels. Lucky for me he probably does not visit this site. Regardless of my good buy, I see many items on Gardner and Holt's that I would buy if I could take them home in the back of my truck, same day as the purchase.

RM -- I find it a bit distressing that your formulae do not include a factor for 'magic'. when I pick up a gun and discover the wonderful handling and fit that lights me up. THAT is where the value is determined. For me at least.

Interesting take on this point. My market charts say the market doesn't agree with what you were told. On the other hand, I'm interested to see if there are some points that need refining.

DDA

Jason Abbot's is well respected for being capable of very good work. I'm curious if "barrels by the maker" is different from "barrels by another." And the same for the stock. How much more for "stock by maker"?

DDA

Yes, it is "very inconvenient" to pay buyer's premium, dealer fees, and shipping? Many is the unwary who has learned the hard way that hammer price is not what you pay in the end.

DDA

Actually, C, I do believe in magic guns. Unfortunately it is factual that no one gun is magic for all shooters. Rather, guns seem quite selective upon whom they shower their magic. This leads me to the conclusion that the closer a given gun's stock dimensions, handling dimensions, feel dimensions, aesthetics, etc. fit the shooter the more likely the gun is to become magical.

DDA

I have several lovely English, Belgian, German and American doubles, all in excellent condition.

My "magic" gun, however, is a ratty looking 16ga. NID with cut barrels that have almost no blue, a silvered receiver and a stock that has been through the wars. I purchased it that way for very little money and I shoot it better than anything else I own.

Dig's theory makes sense if it is feasible to ship the gun for speicalist repairs.

Current EU and national laws stop this. Either by design or accident they have turned high end shotguns into liabilities rather than assets.

The antidote is simple: bolted stocks, monobloc parrels, coil spring actions. In short, a locally, often owner serviced SXS.

And that means that a Beretta 626 outguns most other SXSs. The cost of one used is low enough to get it to sensible bespoke level and no specialist work is needed for that.

The Purdey pigeon gun mentioned, by the way, was purchased from a retail store less than 35 miles from my home. Instantcheck, my check, and home. It was a fluke visit to that store, which I have visited maybe three times in my life. I still frequent the Holt's auction site.

If the maker does the barrel replacement it will carry their name on the rib, along with CURRENT address. "Other" could be anyone, though it is possible that the same barrel maker would be responsible in either case. Value? 'Other' is less valued.

I have a Harkom 16b BLE re-barreled and re-stocked by Hellis Beesley and Watson cost me $2200! Had a Dickson RA that was rebarreled by the makers - sold for a good (but fair) price. This data is 'indicative of nothing except guns vary in price depending on a lot of stuff.

Unfortunately many strip off the old rib that is named and replace it on the new barrels. However,

There is a mention in the Beesley Archives of a rebarreling of a Best Beesley SLE "by another" when AG&L owned the firm in 1946. They "examined the gun, found the barrels of expected quality and allowed the barrels to be named as by the Maker", i.e., F. Beesley.

Thoughts?

The maker's primary/#1 function is quality assurance/control. Most makers used out-workers on high/best quality guns. So, if the maker inspects the work done and says it is up to standard and you are welcome to put our name on it I see no problem. Who is to know if work is done by in-workers or out-workers. The bigger question is does the work meet the standard for the gun in question.

The catch in the above is if the buyer is not competent to judge the quality of the work and is not going to employ an expert of his own. Then he must rely on brand name work. "By others" has a slight taint to it.

DDA

"if the buyer is not competent to judge the quality of the work"

It is useful to have some experience of metal work inorder to appreciate others' work.I do not mean qualification, just some attempts to file something properly. You do it once,, you realise how hard it is to get it right and you appreciate and value the work of those that do. Most people don't have such immediate experience of metal working hence the reliance on brand names.