Anybody have a good understanding of what this really means, or the purpose of it?

Copied from the F.A.I.R. website...........

"“ISIDE GARDENA” that has a double trigger / single trigger shooting system, ejector, divergent barrels, in order to have a large bullet group (oo) in shooting both shots with the rear double trigger actioned first."

Sounds to me like it has a trigger system that allows both barrels to be fired at once with the pull of one trigger.(?) And, horizontally diverging patterns. Sounds like just the ticket for riot control...............

I dunno.

SRH

I dunno either.
I have often thought that some of my guns had a divergent barrel
or two.
However if I sold the gun I don't think it would be good to advertise that.
O.M

Stan,
Something was lost in translation and the translation may be 180 degrees off about convergent/divergent. It's awkwardly stated. However, I believe if you fire the rear double trigger first, it then acts as a single action trigger to fire the second barrel without reaching for the front trigger. I don't believe it is both barrels fired with one trigger pull. There a few double triggered Superposeds made to fire both barrels, one at a time, from one trigger without going to the second trigger regardless of sequence of trigger pulled. Gil

Yup. Poor translation. Seems to refer to the same system that was used on the early Browning Superposed. Double triggers could function the way normal DT's do. But both barrels could also be fired with each of the individual triggers (one at a time). Front trigger would fire bottom barrel, then top. Rear trigger: reverse.

I'm still a little confused over the "divergent" thing--unless it maybe refers to one barrel set up for greater dispersion of the shot (with rifling). Relatively common on European woodcock guns.

I knew of the Superposed trigger system, and always found it strange, and redundant. If they don't really mean divergent, why the part about "large bullet group"................... and the "(oo)", as if they were trying to depict two horizontally divergent patterns?

I found that description accidentally while looking at some close-up pics of the Iside Tartaruga Gold, in .410, a few pics above it.

Strange.

SRH

Their are Spanish guns made for the european market that will fire both barrels if the rear trigger is pulled 1st. Herd it was used for some type of water fowl hunting????

Such a gun would be classified as a class 3 weapon in this country because you get more than one shot with one trigger pull.

Mark is correct, one trigger pull per barrel is required or the firearm is usually considered an NFA machine gun. However, the ATF has given some companies exemptions, such as the ridiculous Arsenal double barrel 1911 pistol. It fires both barrels with the single pull of the trigger and is not considered an NFA firearm by ATF.

Pulling the rear trigger first on a double barrel shotgun and firing both barrels is not a design that most hunters or shooters wish for. I've fixed a good number of doubles that were, well, doubling from poor sear and hammer contact/shape and tension. It's not the worst recoil in the world but it is unpleasant. I'm guessing their marketing department didn't hire the best translator.

Stan,
A Spanish gun that fires both barrels when one trigger is pulled is likely defective, it was not designed that way. Some Spanish guns are very good, but others have a reputation of having soft parts. Sears and sear notches are particularly known for that.
Mike

FAIR guns are not Spanish, they are Italian. FAIR stands for Fabbrica Armi Isidoro Rizzini.

I learned that about some Spanish guns long ago, Der Ami. Thanks.

SRH

Mike I know of guns made and advertised to shoot both barrels when the back is pulled 1st or to work normal if pulled front then back. Pretty easy to build that way.

At one time the production side of Verney-Carron was selling Spanish guns like this to the European market.

Mark, some of the posters are talking about both barrels firing when the back trigger is pulled once, and others are talking about both barrels firing in sequence with two pulls of the rear trigger. The latter is like the Superposed design...........the former I have never heard of, but is what the description I posted sounds like.

Thanks, SRH

Mark,
I meant fire both at the same time, with one pull of the trigger.
Mike

I am talking about a gun that fires both barrels with one pull when you pull the back trigger one time.

Mark, do the guns you are aware of have purposely divergent barrels to cause the two barrels' patterns not to be regulated, or print atop each other, but to be horizontally divergent?

SRH

Can't say for sure. I would guess they pattern normal so if you pulled front then back it would shoot where pointed.

Damn! Mark, your posts caused me to look at my V-C catalog from 1999, at which time they were not producing any sxs of their own. They had 2 models--the Helux and the J.E.T.--which they state were "made for us in the European Union". The Helux looks very German, nothing out of the ordinary about it. But the J.E.T. certainly looks Spanish. And one version, the Canardouze (12ga magnum waterfowl gun), has the following characteristic, translating from the French: "The second trigger permits the simultaneous firing of both barrels."

Don't know how many times I've looked at that catalog--without catching that detail about the "Canardouze".

I'm usually leery of translations, they very often lead to misunderstandings. Does anyone know what "one put running" means?
Mike

Stan, your initial comment about it being a riot gun is starting to have weight. Gil

That's the gun I'm talking about. I saw it and herd the story while I was training with V-C. In the conference room they have a wall full of guns from there early days through today. Lots of cool stuff there.

Ok. I think the trigger thing is settled......... how about the divergence? No way do I believe there are three mis-translations in one place.

1) divergent
2) large bullet group
3) (oo)

I believe this gun is intended to shoot divergent patterns, but can't figure out why.

SRH

Well it could mean that you have a larger pattern with the two side by side fired simultaneously. (OO).
More lead in the sky & more sky full of lead.
O.M