I’m interested in picking up a Winchester heavy duck for waterfowl. I shoot bismuth so I’m not overly worried about the barrels and will either open them up or install tubes. That said, are these guns strong and dependable?

Yes to all

Very!!

Some people think they are over-priced Japanense junk when I do a Google search.

Some don't like the weight or the single trigger but they are far from Japanese junk.

To some anything made in Japan was/is Junk. Personally I have found this to be nothing but Pure Prejudice. A lot of items made in Japan are quality products.

Some people don't know their ass from their elbow.

decent quality....better than the Belgian made stuff being imported today....

Thanks for the feedback. I love the idea of the “heavy duck” for waterfowl. I might even pick up the light duck as well. I was also looking at the PArker Repro steel shot gun but that’s a pretty good step in price.

Kevin

It looks like it was made by Olin Kodensha - they still make the Winchester 101's don't they? I have been happy with multiple Miroku made Brownings (but have never owned an Olin-Kodensha gun) so I guess I am a fan of Japanese guns.

Yes, it was made by Olin-Kodensha. The Repro Steel Shot Specials are expensive because there were fewer 12ga Repros made than either 20's or 28's, and the Steel Shot Specials are a tiny minority of that number. But if you get a 12ga Repro choked IC/M, you're OK with steel shot. The original guidance on those guns, from the maker, was that they were OK with steel unless they were choked full.

I don't know what Heavy Ducks are going for. Personally, because I like the Repro single trigger better than the 23 single trigger, I'd go with a Repro. But if you're thinking waterfowl hunting, it's not all that easy to find a 12ga Repro with 28" barrels choked IC/M. I have one, but they're a real minority. Most are M/F.

The Japanese 101s have been gone for a long time. Last time I looked, the current 101s were being made by FN in Belgium.

I have always been a fan of the 101’s. I think they are well built. I know that the beretta’s and other have a lower profile but the 101 was a sweet gun. And, I think the prices they sell for is really fair.

I have been looking for a Parker repro steel shot gun off and on. I’m getting more serious as i need to get what ever I’m going to get home and start shooting it before season. Wood duck season in Ky is in September!!!!!

The 23 Heavy Duck is a great waterfowler but pricey in today's market.I used a 60/70's Zoli and AYA Matador for years duck hunting killed a ton of birds shooting steel.They will break but for under 1k a bargain.Note you will kill more birds with a auto but not as fun.IMHO

I know, the new benelli’s honestly point and handle like a nice over under. But they just clank and clatter too much

I choose to buy a low end Model 21, which had been modified and lacked any collector value.

Dito on the 21 less money than a Heavy Duck

Biggest problem with the Japanese 101s is parts availability. I have a 12 and a .410, and they are pretty nice guns. The higher grade 101s were really nice,

No, the biggest problem w/ 101's is that they kick the snot outta people - a personally verified and justifiably widespread reputation. I had one for a couple days. Gave my wife a black eye. When I admonished her for poor form she told me GFY and YOU shoot it. So I did (shoot it anyway) and after the second shot I put it in the rack with a FS sign on it. The gent that bought it a few minutes later - it was a reallly good price - was rather heavyset and loved the gun.
At any rate, you're on your own w/a 101.

I'm a relative lightweight at 180, but I have never found the kick from my 12ga 101 to be objectionable. Field grade, 28", sk/sk.

23's are solid post ww2 guns...but for similar money, one can have a far better american made ww2 era gun...like the 21...or a late pre war parker or fox...

I’ve been looking for model 21’s and they seem to be higher. Light duck and heavy duck $2800-3800

That would leave you with a wealth of 101's to choose from.

And on the M23 thing - IIRC there was a minor problem in them with the ejectors, or hammers, or trigger somethings. Ejectors I think. Been a long time since I checked it out but at one time I was gonna get one of them and then I came across the problem thingie. You might want to check that out.
just a thot

Good lord. I am 155lbs and here I am about ready to shoot my new Krieghoff .470 NE double rifle. Can’t wait to see how much it punishes me.

Recoil is relative. Everyone has a different threshold. It's mind over matter. If you don't mind............. it don't matter.

SRH

I agree with Stan here. A persons weight has little to do with it.An older neighbor of mine had an old 12ga 30" single barrel "Hardware brand, don't recall the exact name. Once several of his daughters & families were vising him. I had been invited down also. We got that old single out & shot it a bit.
I was around 16 at the time & weighed around 150 lbs. One of his Grandsons was around 13 & weighed about 99 Soaking wet if he was wearing heavy clothes . Neither of us had any problem shooting it. One of his Son-in-laws was there & probably weighed at least 200 & was Not Fat. He was a big city mail carrier in the days when they walked a beat with that big leather pouch slung on their shoulder & was solid as a Brick. He fired that old 12 one shot & said he won't shoot it again for $100.00, it kicked him so bad,
Go figure.

When I was shooting skeet I found the big guys (not fat) shot the small gauges. I surmised that large guys absorbed more recoil into their shoulders. Slim guys' shoulders moved more easily.

Builder, to a large extent I agree with you.
However I'm not tall only reaching around 5'9", this guy was at least 6'. Even after I became Roly-Poly (Fat) & went well above 200 lbs recoil still didn't bother me. I think a lot of the solution is to be certain the gun is snug into your shoulder & then learning to roll with the punch, don't try to Brace against it.

I once bought a new 20ga 3" double which was uncomfortable even with the
2½-1 loads. It came with a recoil pad that was spongy soft. I changed it out to a firmer pad & after that was a mere pussy cat, even shot a few of the 3" mags through it & was not as bad had been previously with the lighter loads. That spongy pad just gave it "Jumping Room".

Sensitivity was certainly not the issue with the 101 for either my wife or me. Her MX8 pigeon gun is barely more than 7lbs and she shoots factory pigeon loads with no problem. My fave old Mirage is 7lb3oz and is a delight to shoot with Fed pigeon loads. Our experience with the 101 was far from unique as the guns have a heavy rep as face slappers. I'm sure there are a number of possible reasons but I had no interest in the exploration. The Beretta 682 that replaced the 101 had no problems at all.

Go figure

I think it might be how it fits you. In 1966 I bought a 101 30" 12ga field gun 2 3/4" F&F and put over a quarter million shells through it shooting international trap and after I retired opened the chokes and used it to shoot live birds at hunt tests. I liked it so much I bought another one with 26" barrels and had them opened to sk & sk for skeet shooting and grouse(I've been shooting it for 50 yrs).

I can't shoot a 686 for beans but a Superpose Lightning works great.

The limited edition Olin-Kodensha Model 23s have become too expensive for what they represent. The Japanese Sakaba 385/485 can be had for less and they came with choke tubes. Same quality for substantially less money.

Do you own either Jagermeister? Did you ever own either Jagermeister?

I didn't think so. Nothing like advice on a double shotgun from a guy who doesn't own any.

You can also find 23's with choke tubes. Matter of fact, I believe that the Model 23 was the first production sxs to have tubes.

Larry is correct, as I have read, however they were supplied as extended tubes of around 1/4"-3/8" which turned me off. They were subtle, be still.....
Karl

WinChokes with the little dimples to catch the wrench?

Yes, those are the ones that I have encountered.
Karl

I think those WinChokes are interchangeable with standard Invector chokes. Would make the Win 23 more attractive.