About two years ago I bought a Lefever F grade, thumb opener, as a project gun. Barrels were badly pitted, out of round on the end and caked in crud. Worse was the metal and stock which had so much old finish it was black with build up. The the gun would not cock the right barrel. But crud can be a good metal and wood protector in my experience. The pits in the barrels might clean up, I will send the to Mike O for a gentle cleanup.
Well I got around to taking it apart today. Everything came apart easily and the stock was in very good shape with no cracks concealed inside. Off the soak for a few days. But then I saw what some cretin did to fix the cocking problem. He tried to bend the sear on the lock plate to compensate for the cocking rod which is worn. Then he got his nasty file out and whacked it a couple of times with that. Why? Fixing the cocking rod is the easy thing to do. Weld it up and dress it back. Even I can do that with very little effort. This idiot has screwed up the sear which will now need to welded up, shaped and then you still need to fix the cocking rod.
Most of the project guns I have had have needed previous "repairs" reversed before you can fix them right. I wish people would not try to fix so much stuff by doing some stupid quick repair because it is fast and cheap. You get what you earn and pay for.
However....... If they weren't buggered up, they may not be available... as this one was.
I look at it this way, if it can be made, it probably can be repaired, and I can enjoy the feeling of accomplishment.
No, I am not advocating crappy work, but it may bring opportunity.
Don't forget, that many of the technologies we take for granted today, were not available when these old guns were in regular use.
It's entirely possible that "blacksmith" style repairs put them back in service, and that was good enough.
Fer instance, I can't believe how bad the oral care was back in 1900. Millions of pictures, not a single smile.
I think it’s important to try and understand the situation that family or person might have been in at the time of the repair. Great Depression, etc would’ve called for a cheap and expedient repair comensurate to the owners financial situation. I know we all like to bad mouth what we consider “ham fisted” repairs, but consider the owner did their best to keep the gun working and doing its job. I don’t think the farmer, rancher, small town fella was that concerned with a properly fitted turn screw so they didn’t bugger up screw heads.....Doubt they were really concerned with collector value during those tough times. Doubt the owner back then or even subsequent owners thought that their guns were going to be considered “valuable” in the decades to come.
People nowadays laugh and eye roll at an old antique gun with a wire wrap and brass tack, nail, screw wrist repair, but I see it as that owner back then did the best they could with what they had or could afford. Where in BFE were they gonna send the gun for a true expert repair?? You think all these po dunk towns had U.S. factory trained Gunsmith or a Suhl, Felach, , Liege, Birmingham or London trained gunmakers shop in them?? C’mon now.
Don't forget about the repairs that are done just to get it out of gun show door.
There is a lot in what LeFusil said. I used to fool with the antique two Cylinder John Deere's a bit. You should see some of the Fixes that have been applied to them. Most of them worked, but were anything but Original.
Collectors today complain ferociously about these "Fixes" but they kept a lot of tractors in the field & producing for their owners.
I think it’s important to try and understand the situation that family or person might have been in at the time of the repair. Great Depression, etc would’ve called for a cheap and expedient repair comensurate to the owners financial situation. I know we all like to bad mouth what we consider “ham fisted” repairs, but consider the owner did their best to keep the gun working and doing its job. I don’t think the farmer, rancher, small town fella was that concerned with a properly fitted turn screw so they didn’t bugger up screw heads.....Doubt they were really concerned with collector value during those tough times. Doubt the owner back then or even subsequent owners thought that their guns were going to be considered “valuable” in the decades to come.
People nowadays laugh and eye roll at an old antique gun with a wire wrap and brass tack, nail, screw wrist repair, but I see it as that owner back then did the best they could with what they had or could afford. Where in BFE were they gonna send the gun for a true expert repair?? You think all these po dunk towns had U.S. factory trained Gunsmith or a Suhl, Felach, , Liege, Birmingham or London trained gunmakers shop in them?? C’mon now.
+1 Very well said.
SRH
You could always send your Parker Bros. back to them/Remington/Delgrego; your Ithaca/Lefever/Western Arms back to Ithaca Gun Co.; your Ansley H. Fox back to A.H. Fox Gun Co./Savage Arms Corp.; etc for proper repair. However, most owners of these obsolete old doubles weren't going to spring for that!! For several years my Grandfather's heavy PH-Grade 12-gauge had shaped brass plates and a lot of little wood screws holding the grip together. Eventually a relative who was a gunsmith restocked it for him. A good job, but not Brian Dudley, Dan Rossiter, Craig Libhart, etc. quality
When I was a kid the only gunsmith available around here was the mechanic in the bicycle shop. He must have owned only one screw-driver and it fit nothing, at least nothing on a gun. He usually got stuff fixed, but buggered every screw on the gun he worked on whether they needed it or not...Geo
What Dustin said. People forget there was a Great Depression, and when unemployment was near 50%, that nice, fat, bunny or brace of squirrels might have been more important then timed screws.
I've seen charts that say the depression lasted 2 1/2 years, but, people who were there tell me it impacted them until the war. Almost a decade, and that is a long time to end up poor. My Dad was a teenager during the war, and had lots of good jobs, but, people forget when all the troops came home it was like the depression was back all over again. My Dad joined the marines in 1947-he needed a job.
Nobody in Frogtown, where my Dad was raised, shopped at Griffen and Howe, or, Abercrombie and Fitch.
That era was not conducive to good gun maintenance. Po' folk got po' ways.
Best,
Ted
I understand the need to fix it to get by in hard times. Wire, tape, metal straps have all been used for stock repairs to get by with. I saw a Crescent which had a replacement firing pin which I suspect started out life as a 16 penny nail. A fix but a crude one. Sometimes it is a rats nest when you get inside these old guns.
But too many things get fixed wrong just because the fixer did not know what he was doing. Think about what he did. He bent the end of the sear thinking it would set the hammer faster since the cocking rod was not bringing the hammer back fully. When that did not work he took a file and shortened the leg of the sear which engages the hammer thinking I guess it was too long now. I doubt the gun ever fired after his repair. The cocking rod was clearly worn down. Bending the end of the sear did not make it work at all. Both repairs in the end made it worse, not better.
Not a "fix" problem but the most common screwed up item on all used guns has to be the recoil pad. At least 1/2 of all recoil pads do not fit the stock. The recoil pad does not match the stock lines. They take a dog leg. But recoil pads can be easily fixed. Internal parts not often as easily.
I suppose there is a time and place, and sometimes even an excuse for bubble-gum and baling-wire repairs to guns and machinery. But I think the majority of these so-called fixes are the result of ignorance and a lack of skill. It takes more than good screwdrivers to remove and replace a screw without doing damage. And repairing guns is a lot more than knowing lefty-loosey... righty-tighty.
I have never believed that you can teach things like mechanical aptitude or the artistic ability of a good engraver, or the skill and finesse of a neurosurgeon. You are either born with the innate ability and desire to do those things well, or not. When it comes to fixing things or building things, all men are not created equal. Having worked with hundreds of various skilled tradesmen, I can say with complete confidence that some of the hardest workers with the best tools did more harm than good. There is no Great Depression going on right now. But somewhere... right now... someone is screwing up a gun.
What I see daily in my work is things completely not understood & messed with by incompetents who know it all.
Diagnosis is the main problem.
Seem to have no idea that it is a chain of events & that when that chain is broken it is only one link. Not the whole chain.
So every link gets a tap & a bend until we arrive at what Jon said.
When facing these repair situations & I point out to the customer what we are now up against they invariably ask, "why would anybody do that ?"
The answer arrived at after many years of this is always the same.
Cheap & easy, stupid & lazy.
And as my bride says. "Not interested in excuses, only results.
Jon's gun is a poor result.
Would you acept those excuses & poor results if you were sick with something bad & went to see a doctor.
O.M
As my Uncle Bob LeFever said when gazing at a bushel basket filled with about 6 Lefever shotguns in parts in his gun shop "Repaired beyond repair".
The price is double if the owner worked on it first.
Without home fixes, who would stuffed shirts look down upon to build themselves up? Can't have them going around hollering at traffic, might get hit by a car.
Without home fixes, who would stuffed shirts look down upon to build themselves up? Can't have them going around hollering at traffic, might get hit by a car.
Yes, there are some real arrogant stuffed shirts around here. How utterly intolerant and unreasonable of them to suggest that baling wire, gobs of JB Weld gray epoxy, and stove bolts are inappropriate methods of fixing broken guns.