Steve runs across some truly unique pieces. Disagree with "mint", a few hickies here and there, but still...
https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/remingt...-gauge?rq=19408JR
John, its got your name all over it. I want to ride with you when you go pick it up.
You got a deal, Lee. Lol...
JR
Steve has posted up several high condition, lower grade, Remington Hammerless Doubles in the last few days.
That’s a heavy 16 bore at 7-2.
Both my M1894 BE in 12 gauge are only 6 oz heavier. Mind you, they only have 30" barrels.
OK please explain to me a few things about this gun. I call it a 2:00 gun. First why did Remington go to the trouble to miss-time both screws to 2:00 instead of the normal 12:00 position? Second why is all the metal finish so pristine when the wood looks like it has been used as a oar in a john boat? Third if you were going to slap on some more factory original finish why did you not steam a few of those dents out?
Wood finish and condition are absolutely correct for this gun’s age. Wood and the finish there on is much more susceptible to time and the elements than metal, especially humidity and sunlight. As to the screws’ timing, your guess is as good as mine.
JR
Edit: I should have said heat rather than sunlight. Would have definitely been more applicable in the case of this gun.
JR
It's nice gun...
It's also a long way from the mint condition advertised.
Looks like a restored gun with use to me.
I'd put a value of $1200 to $1500 on the high end.
It's a nice gun...
It's also a long way from the mint condition advertised.
Looks like a restored gun with use to me.
I agree. Humidity & sunlight didn't put those dents in the wood. Hard to imagine a gun with that many wood dings with the metal looking that good. Plus all those mistimed screws speak for themselves.
Some can't see the forest for the purty trees.
Wood finish and condition are absolutely correct for this gun’s age. Wood and the finish there on is much more susceptible to time and the elements than metal, especially humidity and sunlight. As to the screws’ timing, your guess is as good as mine.
JR
John I thought it was just the opposite of what you said when it came to case colors.
There you go thinking again, Fred...
JR
It's a nice gun...
It's also a long way from the mint condition advertised.
Looks like a restored gun with use to me.
I agree. Humidity & sunlight didn't put those dents in the wood. Hard to imagine a gun with that many wood dings with the metal looking that good. Plus all those mistimed screws speak for themselves.
How anyone could call this a restored piece is hard to figure. It's pretty obvious, to me at least, this is a gun that has a lot of "rack wear" and handling, which affects the wood much more than metal. Lots of dings and dents in the wood, but no typical wear to the checkering that shows up from hunting and carrying afield. From the looks of the butt plate, it probably stood in a gun cabinet or closet with other guns and who knows what else, that banged and knocked against it over the decades. It didn't get much respect, that's for sure...
JR
There you go thinking again, Frank...
JR
Something you should do more of when evaluating a vintage gun.
Sometime in the guns past life it was restored....
Case colors don't last 100 years with the use and handing that gun shows.
"Rack wear"....I bet a gundealer told you that nonsense.
Both of my 28-inch barrel 16-gauge Remington Hammerless Doubles weigh right at 7 pounds. So I don't see 7 pounds 3 ounces out of line at all for a 32-inch gun. Obviously someone has been inside and put those trigger plate screws back in the wrong holes, but to my eye the finishes on that gun look 100% original for 119 years of sitting in the corner of the closet.
Remington Arms Co. added the 16-gauge to their hammerless double offerings in 1897, with 28-, 30- and 32-inch barrels in all grades and also 26-inch barrels in the higher grades. With the introduction of the new style action circa 1905-06 Remington dropped the 32-inch 16-gauge barrels from their catalogue offerings.
I sure wish Steve would give us the full serial numbers and pictures of the watertable, barrel flats and bottom of the barrel markings like Jay does so I could add guns to my tables of observed specimens.
Morphy Auction's has a EE 16 gauge with 30" barrels coming up to auction.
I sure wish Steve would give us the full serial numbers and pictures of the watertable, barrel flats and bottom of the barrel markings like Jay does so I could add guns to my tables of observed specimens.
I agree, Researcher. I will mention that to Andrew, who does the photos for Steve.
JR
I own quite a few Remingtons and feel it's over priced. For that money I wouldn't want any worries about the stock having all those dents and the receiver and barrels looking almost new. If it's a redone gun, let's say a grand to do the receiver and barrels and what, a grand to 1500 for the gun before it's redone. That's about 2500 on the high end. So, if it is original, would it command another 2000 ? Not out of my wallet. It's worth what someone will pay. Oh ya, I can't see clearly enough what Damascus pattern is on the barrels. Can someone help ?
I just went through all of the Remington shotguns Steve has for sale. Now this is JMHO, but some of the guns he's calling original have Damascus barrels that look like they just came out of the tanks used for redoing them. Of my 25 or so Damascus barrel guns - only the ones I had Brad redo look as nice. Any of those I had redone 5 to 8 years ago and have been used show wear on the sides next to the forearm. Are all of his " closet queens " - I don't think so. I really don't know what to think. Hopefully someone can straighten me out. I don't usually say something negative about someone else or their product [ items for sale ]. Maybe I'm wrong.
It ain't redone. It is overpriced. He ain't marketing it to the cheapskates here. Go find another one just like it.
JR
It has been completely apart. Look at the top lever screw. Buggered. There is no reason to take that screw out for anything other than a repair or refinish. If it has no metal wear the top lever should not have needed to be fixed. Problem is people think about refinishing then right to immediate sale. That gun could have been refinished 10, 20, 40 or 50 years ago. The dents in the wood could be classified as old and recent. The recent ones in safe storage. But clearly some of those dings and scrapes are many decades old. But no metal dings from years ago. Too many inconsistencies between wood, metal and screws. Plus you need to consider what you don’t see in views. No grip screws. No water table or barrel flats.
Now you could just say it is a nice looking example of a hard to find gun. Then decide if you want to pay that much money to own it. If I hit the big lottery I might buy it for just a rainy day Dove gun.
You are like a blind man in love with a 400 lb women that used to be a man and no one is going to convince you other wise...
Just the kind of blind love customer Steve Barnett is looking for.
I really get under your skin don’t I Fred. It must hurt to be a blowhard like you.
JR
Mr. Windy getting under my skin...now that was funny.
If I recall correctly it was you that authored this thread 'blowing off' your X'pertise gun knowledge....Funny how I'm not the only one that thinks you are 'blowing hot air' on this original condition gun.
You getting a commission on Steve Barnett guns ?...
As eYe recall this is not your first Barnett prOmo.
So who's the "blowhard" ?
Paul: The Hammerless Model of 1894 A Grades had “Two stripe Damascus” (Boston and Oxford 2 S.J.); B Grades “Fine Three stripe Damascus” (Oxford 4 S.J. and Chain J)
It's Oxford 4 S.J. It is my opinion that Remington damascus barrels were originally "black & white" but may certainly "plum" over time
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DaS94GLQ9b3w9XRU4cBX7M0LUIB_mTDFpvSZxCmUQME/edit
Your jealousy is showing, Fred.
JR
I just wish whoever is responsible for the listing of the Barnett guns could list some pertinent barrel information like minimum barrel wall thickness. Many dealers do it, Champlin and Kirby just to mention a couple. Trying to ascertain much from the Barnett listings is like trying to buy a pig in a poke.
If i was interested enough in one of Barnett's guns to seriously consider it I wouldn't mind emailing them for the pertinent information. I mean, how much effort is required to send an email?
SRH
Maybe Stevie's bOy Fred will post some stats..
Frank or Fred, either one.
JR
Several years ago asked Mr Barnett about wall thickness to wilon a Parker 32 inch straight grip. Told me he did not go to the trouble for a gun of that grade. Sad thing the gun was probably on consignment some owner expecting
it to sell. And yes I bought a 32 inch straight grip from somebody else.
Boats
My experience with him was pretty much the same...it was like who was I to question him.
Drew, thank you. Stan, one could email him but at the same time he could give those measurements in the listing. That is unless he doesn't have the necessary equipment to measure the barrel walls. Now that would be a shame seeing how he markets his guns to someone other than the cheapskates here. Maybe, just maybe we're not just cheap, but trying to stay well informed before we buy. I won't argue with Researcher about case colors, but still beleive the damascus barrels look too nice for a gun with a stock like that. At least I wouldn't be buying, and it has nothing to do with how much money I'd spend on a gun.
Steve does not do several things he should do on gun specs. He sells them anyway.
JR
Sorry you two have not had a good experience with Steve. I know him personally, and see him about once a year. I've always gotten any info I've asked for. Some people are just not as outgoing as others. Kirby H. is just the prince of congeniality, IMO. Always eager to talk and help however he can.
SRH
My experience is the same with both, Stan. I visit with Steve several times a year and always come away impressed with his hospitality. Anyone who cannot do business with either guy is probably not a true prospect.
JR
I've bought several guns from Kirby Hoyt without a hitch...even returned a $9000.00 gun to him without a problem. Never bought anything from Barnett because his pricing has always been out of line with what he was selling.
My reputation for NOT posting pictures of my guns is explained in this thread. I have gotten criticism on the internet for every gun I have bought that was pictured on the sites I bought from. No point in adding to that criticism by posting pictures myself.
Obvious an older refinish, JMHO. Also priced about double what it should sell for, maybe more.
Never yet have I seen a gun that matched the pictures once I had it in hand.
General information is all they are good for. To know whether or not you want to see the gun in the physical.
Just last week I was ten hours drive from home & called into a shop to look at a gun that was a ripsnorter, best example, lightly used & well maintained, if you go by the pictures & description.
Five seconds in my hands after it was handed to me (action closed) & I opened & closed it I found it to be off face.
Needless to say, I opened it again, looked down its pitted bores & handed it back & said thank you.
Please Lord; When will the gun be what it is claimed to be.
O.M
Obvious an older refinish, JMHO. Also priced about double what it should sell for, maybe more.
What's obvious? Rounded corners and edges? Nope. Polished-out engraving? Nope. Gaps in fit? Nope. Looks too good for it's age just because you say so huh? Priced double based on what, all the others available just like it? Yeah, didn't think so.
JR
Wow, five pages of praise and... um..not...and it's not sold yet??
What world you been living in...a good gunsmith can refinish a gun and make the best expert scratch his head.
LIke the guy said it's an obvious old refinish.
JR, What is obvious is you have blinders on about this gun. Is it your gun for sale? Do you want to buy it and want others to tell you it is legit? Tell us. The metal is all wrong. You don't keep the metal pristine and beat the crap out of the wood. Look at the edges of the wood. They are dark when the basic wood color is light. Figure selective oil soaking and wear. That wood should be just as nice as the metal. It clearly is not. Why? Because it never got redone to the degree of the metal. Someone put a little finish on it to cover the worst wear but did not steam out the dents and scars.
Was the metal well refinished? I'd say yes. It was not a recent job. I suspect 20 years or more. Could see several people having done the job. That level of refinish is still possible to achieve with the right person. Engraving can be picked up. Lines preserved and no rounding of holes. Perhaps the owner was intending to have the wood redone later and never got around to doing the job. The metal is a seven and the wood is a three. Does not go together. There is a reason for that discrepancy.
Never yet have I seen a gun that matched the pictures once I had it in hand.
General information is all they are good for. To know whether or not you want to see the gun in the physical.
Just last week I was ten hours drive from home & called into a shop to look at a gun that was a ripsnorter, best example, lightly used & well maintained, if you go by the pictures & description.
Five seconds in my hands after it was handed to me (action closed) & I opened & closed it I found it to be off face.
Needless to say, I opened it again, looked down its pitted bores & handed it back & said thank you.
Please Lord; When will the gun be what it is claimed to be.
O.M
You might consider getting your vision checked, Moses. There are photos and there are photos. Steve Barnett's photos are pretty dang good. If vou cannot draw a decent idea of the guns overall appearance from the photos he puts up, you can't see very well. Or perhaps you're like HoMeLeSs JoE, looking for love in all the wrong places.
Can you discern anything about this piece from these photos?:
http://hallowellco.com/r_g_owen%2012ga.htmJR
JR, What is obvious is you have blinders on about this gun. Is it your gun for sale? Do you want to buy it and want others to tell you it is legit? Tell us. The metal is all wrong. You don't keep the metal pristine and beat the crap out of the wood. Look at the edges of the wood. They are dark when the basic wood color is light. Figure selective oil soaking and wear. That wood should be just as nice as the metal. It clearly is not. Why? Because it never got redone to the degree of the metal. Someone put a little finish on it to cover the worst wear but did not steam out the dents and scars.
Was the metal well refinished? I'd say yes. It was not a recent job. I suspect 20 years or more. Could see several people having done the job. That level of refinish is still possible to achieve with the right person. Engraving can be picked up. Lines preserved and no rounding of holes. Perhaps the owner was intending to have the wood redone later and never got around to doing the job. The metal is a seven and the wood is a three. Does not go together. There is a reason for that discrepancy.
Nonsense. It ain't my gun, but I'll put my judgment about this gun up against yours any day, as well as anyone else's here. You might have missed Researcher's opinion back on page 2. I suppose his knowledge is worthless about this piece.
Seems most of you casting aspersions on every piece that looks good think they're all redone, for whatever reason that fits, mostly tirekickers and cheapskates. But whatever, continue your bashing if it makes you feel better.
JR
I have no dog in this fight, but the engraving on the receiver looks very crisp. Someone has been in the gun as evidenced by the screws, but that does not necessarily earmark the gun as a refinish. I’m betting the metal work on receiver and furniture is original and not redone.
When I enlarge the pics and look closely I see patina on every metal part on the gun. If it was redone it was a long, long time ago. There are people who can fake patina very well, but they don't go to the trouble on a gun like this. They do it for big bucks stuff.
I'm believing the metal has the original finishes, until proved wrong.
SRH
Stan you said the key words "a long time ago".
The better the "restoration was done" to begin with, and the more usage it has had since, the nearer impossible it becomes to state with certainty that it was ever restored. I have wondered many times how many self proclaimed experts would bet their life that a certain gun, about which they knew nothing of the provenance, was original or not. Even the best of the best Smithsonian gun curators wouldn't bet their life on their opinions. If they would, they're a fool.
No one is infallible. Well, there was One.
SRH
John Roberts done crawled out on a limb on this one.
Now he's done got mad and pouty because he can hear the limb cracking under the weight of his own stupidity.
Obvious an older refinish, JMHO. Also priced about double what it should sell for, maybe more.
What's obvious? Rounded corners and edges? Nope. Polished-out engraving? Nope. Gaps in fit? Nope. Looks too good for it's age just because you say so huh? Priced double based on what, all the others available just like it? Yeah, didn't think so.
JR
Rustled and salty...
Geez, it was JMHO. You like it so much, why don't you buy it?
He never had any intention of buying it...
He's just trying to sell it.
Kinds reminds me of Hillary and them demo'rats...
Hear tell them demO'rats would prefer Hillary just keep her mouth shut for fear of hurting a rat.
eYe spect before its over Steve'O will wish his salesman John Roberts had done the same.
You don't keep the metal pristine and beat the crap out of the wood.
The trigger loop didn't look so pristine to me....
I hear tell them Remington SxS were hell to keep working maybe that's why the screws are turned ?
I bet those nicks on the wood are rack nicks it got while it was sitting in a gunsmith shop trying to keep her running ?
What say ye O John Roberts....
Nothing personal, Battle. Not judging, just asking. I don't want it. Never did. Just put it up for viewing and discussion because of its rarity and condition. Looks like I succeeded on that part, as well as putting JoE into a nutball tizzy. He poisons the water here every time he joins the conversation, makes some stupid derogatory comment, gets smacked down, then gets pissed and goes into personal attacks. Nothing new, just the same old broken record he's always been.
Oh, btw, Steve said he's got my commission check ready to go out, lol.
JR
John Roberts every reply you made sounded like you took offense to having someone disagree with your evaluation...
Don't fret none about the personal attacks you made on me and others that replied.
I forgive you John Roberts because I realize someone has got to love the fat ugly women....