I don't think I can be any plainer with the subject line.


Upon my return from Yorkshire, Saturday last, I faced a new hurdle at CBP (Customs, Border Patrol) in Chicago O'Hare airport.

After a 20+hr set of flights, at 3:00AM GST, I was asked by CBP to prove the shotguns I was returning with were mine.
It was 10PM on a Saturday, CST.

I pulled out my visitors permit from the UK, and was told that wasn't good enough.

They needed a document showing the serial numbers that I exported, to be matched with the shotguns I was importing.
Furthermore, that it needed to be stamped by CBP on the outbound, and presented by me to CBP on the inbound.


Anyone here ever heard such nonsense before?

That's a completely new regulatory overstep as near as I can tell.

By pure chance, I had the purchase receipt still in the case.

Still, that was a new one to me.

Form 4457 .....just one of the many Federal forms out there. Yeah, I have always filled them out while traveling with firearms.
Steve

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/323/~/traveling-outside-of-the-u.s.---temporarily-taking-a-firearm%2C-rifle%2C-gun%2C


The only issue I ever had was one of my guns had the same serial# as a gun in the stolen firearms database. A quick check showed my gun to be a rifle and the stolen gun was a pistol. Took maybe 10 minutes to determine that and I was on my way.

Well Grey Man, karma can be a real b!tch!

I mean, aren't you one of those gun guys who regularly supports and votes for the Liberal Left Democrat anti-gunners, who work relentlessly to make life miserable for law abiding gun owners?

... Another definition of insanity. When will you learn from your mistakes?

Been around for over a decade or two, for sure. Nothing new about it. They may not always check it however. Used to have to do that for more than just firearms too.

What SKB said. I have a nice .45 stuck in Kenya because I didn't know about Form 4457 when I brought it from the US. Had no trouble (at the US end) bringing back a shotgun I brought in later for which I had the form. It's just a matter of presenting the guns to Customs outbound and having them stamp the form.

Wonderful, it appears I have been the unintended beneficiary of governmental efficiency and professionalism.

Now I must take it upon myself to get the staff at the other two airports I frequent to start doing their jobs as well as their counterparts in Chicago.

Hats off to the CBP professionals in Chicago.

CZ, I posted in the game/gun thread last week about a similar experience I had on a Canadian trip last week.

Form 4457 has been around for years and is intended to be a helpful tool for travelers. The Customs website says its one way of proving prior ownership of an item which might otherwise be duty due. It is specifically stated NOT to be mandatory. Problem for me is the nearest customs office is a couple hundred miles from where I live, and I've always been in too much of a hurry to check the guns at customs while traveling.

On my way out of Houston to Calgary,AB customs agents pulled me off the plane after boarding and advised me I had three GUNS in my pelican case. I said yes I did, mine and two of my traveling companions. I had the receipt for the purchase of my Miroku, along with a prior Canadian registration and P.A.L. but my buddy had nothing on his.

At first they were adamant that the form 4457 was required so they could REGISTER guns leaving the Country. I politely disputed this citing their own website. Short story is they relented and issued 4457s to both of us for our guns and now we have them. Good thing!

Because on our flight home we went to Chicago. US customs from Calgary to Chicago is in the Calgary airport. The agent there demanded our "required" form 4457s. We proudly presented our brand new "papers" and were graciously allowed to return to our home country with our damn shotguns. I'm still mad...Geo

Deep State at work no doubt!

YOu should know that you can get 4457s anytime before your trip and once you have one, it's good for life. So, if the Customs Office is a long ways away, but you know you will be taking one of 3 possible shotguns overseas in 6 mo, then get call ahead, make an appointment and get it done. Then choose the actual gun that will go the night before you leave, if you wish.

If you havea 4457 from 10 yrs ago, it's still good.

I think I remember that you had this gun built for you. Any chance you could ask the gunmaker to draw up a receipt for you from his records? I bet you could get it back into the country if you did.

It's kind of funny.
I am so bland, and non-descript, that I've grown accustomed to no one ever even saying hello to me. Let alone asking for a form.
I had everything I needed to bring in 100lbs of Red Stag venison from the Stag I shot, along with it's antlers, but I overlooked the form for my shotguns.

Flying in and out of my two local airports has made me lazy I guess. They never ask for anything. And can't remember who I am, or when I was possibly last through, it would seem.

I'll fix that. Can't have gun smugglers going un-accosted.

I'll do up some 4457's and get everything stamped before I leave for Romania. Thanks Steve.

If you really cared you post some pictures of your Stag

I suppose. Give me a bit.

Good memory, Brent. I built the Paraordnance .45 myself and have the receipts for at least the receiver and slide, but I don't know if those would work in place of the 4457. I would like to bring it back when I finally give up my life in Kenya because it is wonderfully accurate. It's high cap magazines are, of course, now illegal in California, unless the Supreme Court starts overturning our idiotic gun laws.

I do have a .470 that Butch Searcy built for me but will eventually sell that to a friend when I hang up the dart gun for good.

LGF,
I can't except that grade for a perfect score. I was thinking a .45 double rifle, but it was your .470 that I was remembering.

Receipts for the receiver would work. THAT is the legal "gun" part.

Come to think of it, I did inquire about this from the ATF a few years ago and was told that to bring the pistol back without the 4457, I would need to get import permission (Form 6) from them.

Please don't bite off my head.
The country I live in has the firearm registered to the owners name.
There is proof of ownership.
Hey, I did not think it up.
O.M

LGF, if the receipt for the receiver is USA, then you aren't importing at all. I don't think they could stick that on you. I can think of another work around too, but the simplest would be to insist that it's "American By Birth".

4457s can also be useful in proving prior ownership after traveling with expensive watches, camera equipment, etc, basically anything with a serial number. Unlike guns, you do not need to prove prior ownership to bring these items back into the US, but may need 4457s to avoid paying import duty on them.

Be aware that some countries consider the 4457 to be your US issued permit to own the gun. They cannot wrap their heads around the fact that US citizens don't need permits to own a firearm.

US Customs considers the form 4457 good for life but South Africa requires that it be dated in the same calendar year as you are traveling.

It pays to carefully check the regulations before traveling. The firearm could be confiscated and you could spend some time in a foreign jail.

I think what got off with me so bad was the guy in the blue uniform telling me we had to get all these guns going out of the country registered...Geo

4457s are for use only by USA officials.

Not so. You cannot get a firearm into South Africa without one.

As I stated above, some countries consider it to be a US gun permit. It may be intended for just US Customs use but used by other governments as well.

That's exactly how Moroccan customs treated the 4457 when I arrived there with a shotgun (and a bunch of other baggage--2 year tour in the embassy) umpteen years ago. All they wanted was something official with a number on it. They asked for my permit, so I tried the customs form since we don't have long gun permits in the States. It worked.

And while the 4457 may be a permanent document, you'll need a new one if you take a different gun.

Larry, I think you can add guns to an existing 4457, though I haven't actually tried this. I just get another.

Brent, I don't think I ever went to Scotland twice with the same shotgun. But my suspicion would be that you can't add to a customs form. If you could, then couldn't you simply purchase a shotgun overseas, add it to your customs form, and bring it back with you--thus escaping both customs duty as well as the costs of importing it?

Point of the form is to show that a customs officer has seen and signed off on you having an item prior to leaving the country. So not subject to duty due coming home...Geo

Larry, he may initial a new entry or some other thing, I don't recall. But if you think about it, what's to prevent you from adding one anyway? Only the copy that is on record somewhere = which they never check at the airport.

It is not a very secure way of doing things, but it stops the casual tourist from "importing without taxation. When I was a kid, I think lots of people would go to Europe and buy cameras and so forth because there were no import taxes or fees on them. It was cheaper to buy a plane ticket to Germany, buy a new Nikon and a few lenses and come home with it than to buy it locally.

Camera gear ceased to be a big deal eventually. Perhaps because the import duties were eliminated (coming back strong now though).