The degradation of Drew's post about picture posting into a political free for all is the last straw for me. You can check out the donor's lists and see that I have contributed every year for at least 10 years. No More.

Dave is making a profit on this forum. At least he could moderate to the extent that informative posts aren't constantly turned into political BS by the same half dozen malcontents.

If you are a regular donor please join with me in a boycott until he addresses the issue.

I'm curious Bob. Who exactly are you referring to when you say the "same half dozen malcontents" and what would you propose Dave do that "addresses the issue"?

You are calling for a boycott. Please be specific about the action that boycott is designed to instigate.

Are you by chance related to Sara Lefever?

I don't wish to name any individuals as I know where that will end up.
Lets just say that if you take a post off topic with some personal or political diatribe against a poster you are warned the first time, banned for some arbitrary period the second time, and permanently banned the third time.
Now I will hear about how I want to ban freedom of speech. No, you can say whatever you want. However, I am not going to pay to hear it.

Dr. bOb...I just made a donation for all the whiners.

Boycotts are sometimes necessary but this isn't the case here. All that's required is a simple declaration from Dave that politics and degrading comment is not permissible. It works on other forums I attend. "Keep it clean" isn't enough where mean and dirty reigns.

I made a suggestion to Dave a few months ago that could fix the problem by allowing the thread readers to rate comments and essentially lock certain posters out of specific threads for going off topic. But he said it wasnt feasible due to either forum technology limitations, or development costs.

I understand Dave's reluctance to interject himself into a 1st Amendment debate. And I think he thought he was helping the situation by shelving "Misfires." But all it really did was move the personal politics into every other thread.

To me this isnt about free speech...it's about relevance, and staying ON THREAD TOPIC or having the self control to NOT needlessly interject other stuff.

This forum has degraded from its intended purpose, and the user base -- and Dave -- have a right to yank the microphone away from anyone who is repeatedly incapable of STAYING ON TOPIC.

If someone is rude I think one has the right to defend themselves, but if people STAY ON TOPIC it's much less likely that it will get rude.

Otherwise, what's the point? It's no longer about doubleguns...

NDG

Are you by chance related to Sara Lefever? [/quote]

Yes, but please do not blame her as she had no choice in the matter.

Non-moderated forums are not for everyone...Geo

I just sent money to Dave.

And BTW...how do you know if he’s making a profit off of this website???? You go through his books? Talk to his accountant? Know something we don’t?

You don’t like it here, hit the bricks and quit free loading and being a [censored]. . You always have that option. Posting on a forum, asking for a boycott of donations to the forum owner, that should have you scrubs permanently banned.

If Keith accepted donations, I’d happily donate to him as well.... just to keep calling out the posers and fags. It’d be worth every penny.

You and your fellow communistic liberal brothers are the cause of every problem on every thread.

Get rid of the Muslim loving liberal/communist here and there will be no problems.

I am with you, DrBob.

Not a dime until he cleans this place up.

Yes, but please do not blame her as she had no choice in the matter. [/quote]

Oh no worries, she is great, I love reading stories she posts on the Parker forum!

There are some things that might be better kept to oneself. If you have an issue with Mr. Weber’s site, and no longer wish to contribute, either financially or with informative posts, then don’t. Nobody else cares what your opinion is in those regards, so, spare us.
Exactly like the guys who announce they are leaving, and post it for all to see. Truly, who cares?
If there is a spot on the web that has a better assortment of engineers, machinests, dealers, gunsmiths, competitive shooters, metallurgists, historians,
collectors, and hunters, all with a little or a lot of expertise on double guns from all over he world, I haven’t found it, and if I ever do, I’ll still spend time and add anything I can to the discussion, here.
Feel free to move on.

Best,
Ted

What he said.

Seems to be three or four people that cause a stir, yeah you focus on one individual, but if you ban him, someone else will take up the mantle. Seems like the ones who cause the most problems here are the ones complaining about the problems or at least are the ones called out for their hypocrisy.. funny how that works out. To be quite honest why on earth would you start a post stating you are going to start boycotting the board.... don't get me wrong but I think there isn't anybody here that is going to be like "ah crap Dr Bob is no longer donating, what are we going to do now?" It would make more sense if you just stopped and left. And if your donations really meant anything financially to Dave I'm sure he would contact you. What if we do the opposite, if someone complains three times they get banned and so forth!

there are two malcontents here who constantly launch off topic personal attacks...they are keith, aka keet, an Ole jOe...

if we all vow to just ignore them, hopefully that will result in more peace and focus here...

dont feed the trolls...

and, please do continue to fund and participate in this fine doublegun forum...

Assumptions aside, if you get everything you might want, then would it be okay to allow off topic posts that call for choosing sides?

I appreciate that you air this one out though. There seems to be plenty indication that the pm route must get hammered mercilessly.

It seems to me that the vast majority of those who complain about Keith & Joe are those whom they have told the truth about. I recall a statement from an old Doris Day movie, don't recall for certain which one, " There are things which Hurt Worse than the Truth, we just haven't figured out what they are yet".

What you said, Ted, is this forum is the best because its members comprise the best of the crafts and professions of our fraternity, and those who can't accommodate the weakening trash-talk and political trolling should move along.

Applying your notion to any valued organization, institution or country would leave them rotting from the head down, and first to leave would be those members we laud for their commitment and generous contributions.

You and your fellow communistic liberal brothers are the cause of every problem on every thread.

Get rid of the Muslim loving liberal/communist here and there will be no problems.

[/quote]
Case in point.
I find this forum to be the best place on the internet for doublegun related discussions due to the wide variety of participants with specialized knowledge. However, the constant interjection of personal insults into threads such as Drew's detract from the forum as a whole. I am talking about incivility from all sides of the political spectrum. I am not talking about censorship of civil political discourse in the appropriate thread, but hijacking a non-political thread. Name calling and personal attacks have no place in a discussion among gentlemen (and gentle ladies).

As for being a freeloader, you will see my name on the "Friends" list every year since 2010. While checking to see when I first donated I noticed the friends list gets shorter every year. I do know very knowledgeable people who do not participate here for the very reason of being sick of being personally attacked. I suspect (but cannot prove) that the Friends list is getting shorter every year for the same reason.

Guys,

My problem is not with the substance or even the topic matter of the hijackers. Its the fact that what they contribute is OFF TOPIC.

So for instance, that 50+ page Judge Kavenaugh thread? Have at it! The very headline on the thread indicates the heated and political nature of what the OP wanted to discuss. So anyone who clicked on it shouldnt have been surprised or upset at where it went.

But a thread on posting forum pics? I expect that to be what it says.

See, its a thread-by-thread issue. It isnt that anyone should be stifled from talking about a given topic, or even saying something that attacks or offends. Its just...do that where it is expected. Start a 2A thread and fire away at anti's if you like. I might even join in!

But if then someone decides to start a thread with a question about Tobin's...THAT is NOT the thread to sideline into personal/political stuff that is OFF TOPIC.

NDG

nudge: you hit the nail on the head...it aint the subject of off topic posts that is the problem...what is the problem, is the very existence of off topic posts...perhaps it would be helpful, if every time we see an off topic post, we hit the notify link and deluge the moderator with complaint messages, that simply state "off topic post". "please delete"...

Please, just label a topic, whatever that may be, doubleguns or political and stay on the stated topic. Let us choose what we want to read.

The extraneous crap that goes on here devalues the product to the point that I'm not paying for it. Simple capitalism at work. I also despise someone that advertises one thing and the actually sells another. Dave is doing exactly that.

Not a nickel from me.

cback had an interesting observation about his recent upland swing through the Dakota's, wouldn't you say? It had something or another to do with the approach taken by one side of the aisle while he was stuck driving around and having to listen to whatever cobble up reception drug in the door?

When it comes to slowing rot between the ears, wouldn't a nugget to consider be that civility might be taken with a grain of salt?

And there you go... it is people like you who are the secondary problem here. The ones who find the likes of him to be “entertaining” or “funny”. It is neither. And if you feel that way, you guys deserve eachother.


Bob,

Thank you for speaking up on this subject. I am sure it will not result in any reform or any kind. But it is the least you can do. Save you money and put it back in the gun fund.

You guys gotta be kidding! There are somewhere around 80 contributors on the list. If they each contributed 50 bucks which I doubt we are talking about 4 grand. Subtract the expenses of running this board and it is obvious to me that Dave is providing this forum as a hobby, not a large stream of cash. There is no advertising either that I have noticed so give me a break and grow up. He is not going to spend all his spare time moderating against some immature babble mouths.

Stick to the topic as best you can and stop changing it. If you want to rant about politics then start a thread about that. Don't twist a topic into politics or sports. Make this board unpleasant enough and you will see Dave give up and walk away and close the board and you will have to go to Shooting Sportsman or some other place that does have a moderator.

There are about five people here who change the topic to sports and politics and disappoint the original poster who really wants info about his topic. Be more considerate of the original poster.

It is not Joe. He just interjects a caustic remark here and there and I am happy to see that. It keeps it lively.

I don't come here as much as I used to because interesting topics degrade to political arguments or just plain arguments. I posted this observation a few days ago. I truly miss "Misfires" I rarely go there and could enjoy a thread on a doublegun/shooting without wading through six pages of cr-p to see if the topic survived.

Count me as one disappointed member.

so, how cum den, a sucky second rate team like da red socks keep on winnin da world serious?...watts wrong wid da yanks? every body no, dat da new york yankees are the best team in da hole history o bais ball...

jes kiddin guys...don git yo nickers in ah not...

DrBob,
I don’t know you but I’m sure you’re passionate about double guns like most of us.
I will say, saying you’re leaving the forum or telling us that you no longer support the forum, you’re only trying to draw attention to yourself. Telling everyone just starts a whole new heated debate and further name calling.

The ignore option, if you actually need this option, you don’t have thick enough skin to actually not post further degrading remarks, maybe you oughta just stay away till you grow thicker skin.

I have a suggestion for Mr Ed, King Brown, and any other posters who don’t appreciate the 2nd Ammendment that our wise forefathers put in our great Constitution, start another forum site for people who share your liberal views.

Every blames Keith, I do not know Keith personally, but I do know he’s posted some knowledgeable information, way more than you Mr Ed! In my opinion, you’re only here to stir up trouble, please prove me wrong?

Stan

uh stan, your assumption that i do not appreciate and support the second amendment is incorrect...

but, conflict does arise here when it comes to the interpretation of the literal meaning of the intent of the founding fathers...

and some here cannot tolerate views that are not exactly the same as their own...and heaven forbid that we have a discussion of differing views regarding gun ownership rights and responsibilities in our 21st century society...

if you wish to discuss this subject further, pm me or start a new thread, so others can participate...after all we do not want to trash this thread by going off on a non topic tangent regarding gun ownership rights, do we?

Thanks for the respectful response Ed,
Stan

Why was Misfires abandoned? It did seem to soak up most of the bile that now hijacks so many threads and I would welcome its return.

Case closed...

a return of misfires could be helpful...

but, respect for and tolerance for the views of others would be more helpful... and all that is really required to achieve that here is self discipline and perhaps some limited moderation from time to time...

i mean, arent we all supposed to be mature, responsible doublegun owners and enthusiast? it is shameful that we as a group cannot conduct ourselves like gentlemen in a common cause...

Stan, You have met me and you are right, I am passionate about double guns. Its ironic that the post that made up my mind to try to do something about the frequent hijacking of topics was Walt Snyder stating that he was through with this forum after Drew Hause's thread about posting photos was hijacked. We cannot afford to lose expertise like his just because some refuse to be civil and respect others rights to have a discussion without being interrupted.

Others have complained to no avail. Dave did take down the Misfires, which I think was a mistake. Everybody should have a right to express their opinions, and even call each other names if that is your want. But not in the middle of somebody else's discussion on an unrelated topic.

The number of financial supporters is dwindling. There were 133 contributors in 2010, 103 last year, and 84 so far this year. When I ask about this forum in conversations at the various shows and meets I attend the subject of interrupted threads and personal attacks always rears its head. Lets not let this forum die simply because a small minority spoiled it for all.

I wonder just how many of those of you who swear not to send Dave another penny will continue to use this forum for free. I'll bet I know the answer, pretty close.

If you aren't willing to help support it, why not just stay off it?

SRH

What............. abandoned your boycott already?

SRH

I didn't say I was boycotting the forum, just financial contributions until something is done about the constant interruption /hijacking of threads.
The site info says there are 13,502 members on this forum. I guess I won't be the only one scooting for free as I see some of my critics do.

He put Mike in the insane asylum for crissakes.



Life on The Rez was fine until the FAGs wrecked it.

Alabama at LSU. Should be good. And it’s Hockey Night in Canada.


_____________________________
Old white folks is crazy.

I guess I misunderstood, Bob. You said........



Evidently you meant a boycott of the donations, but not of the usage of the site. If you're comfortable with a that, fine. I'd rather "pay as I go".

But, if you seriously think Dave is "profiting" off this forum, I think you may need to reconsider.

SRH

I've had the Communist/liberal/Muslim lover stuff tossed at me, which is a real knee slapper. If I were to report that to the REAL liberals (although I don't think they were card-carrying Party members) with whom I worked at a couple universities, I'd be guilty of homicide because they'd die laughing.

Then there's always the hypocrisy issue of the "Muslim lover" comment. Where I grew up and went to Sunday school, we learned that we're supposed to love our neighbors. I guess "neighbor" now means only those that go to the same church and have the same political views as the individuals tossing around such crap.

I've been hunting with two guys for over 40 years. They're both (shock!) DEMOCRATS! But guess what? They're solid supporters of the 2nd Amendment. One of them is retired military (as I am). The other one also served . . . as a helicopter door gunner in Vietnam.

Funny how some of those who sling that crap never got around to swearing an oath to protect the Constitution, much less signing up to serve their country. Hypocrites.

But I've chosen to exercise the ignore option and no longer have to listen to the hypocritical yapping.

Since you're fond of throwing around the word, is it hypocritical to sell some folks here that the recipients of your buddies votes are pro 2nd., let alone protect the Constitution?

Instead of giving job resumes, retirement status and hunting prowess, why not 'discuss' the results of the fruits of their vote?

I assume DrBob read my reply to anti-gun Ed in the thread where Walt complained and announced his departure. But I'll repeat it here...

I wonder where Walt was during the literally thousands of times that King made wildly off-topic political posts? Why didn't he get all huffy and leave then? The same could be asked about all manner of off-topic threads and thread diversions that occur on a regular basis here. Since Walt has posted hundreds of pics of high grade Ithaca doubles, it's safe to assume he wasn't concerned with learning picture posting. But most of these emotional departures don't last anyway. Otherwise, B. Dudley would have remained gone after his hissy-fit farewell.

My recent thread asking guys to contact their Senators to confirm Judge Kavanaugh was not intended to become a political discussion, and I specifically requested that it shouldn't. But a few of our Liberals felt the need to denigrate a pro-2nd amendment nominee, and that thread went over 50 pages and generated more views and more interest than anything in recent memory except maybe Greg's annual Favorite Guns and Game Pictures thread. 16,664 views so far... that number is exceeded only by B. Dudley's tears. So much for the false sour grapes arguments from BrentD, B. Dudley, and a few others that claim political discussions drive people away. These guys should be working for CNN making up Fake News.

Maybe DrBob is really just upset that site traffic is way down on his new Lefever forum website. Ever since he took over the reins, after hackers were able to lock out the former administrators, the new forum has had much less traffic. Now there's a formula for failure that he apparently wishes to duplicate here. Since he "knows" that Dave is making a financial profit here, maybe he should disclose the finances of the Lefever Arms Collectors Association, and tell the members exactly what they are getting for their annual dues. It wasn't much... not even the right of members to nominate officers. The chincy newsletter was largely pictures of DrBob standing behind Lefever tables or shooting a shotgun at various shoots or shows. In my opinion, it was a big waste of money, and there is more good information on Lefever guns right here. Some former members have emailed or PM'd me to tell me why they dropped out of the LACA since it came under DrBobs leadership. Some complained about his apparent disinterest in informational articles they submitted to the newsletter that certainly would have been more useful than pics of DrBob and friends shooting a shotgun or standing behind a table. For someone so passionate about doubles, I sure am not impressed with his knowledge, or his off topic calls for censorship here.

I'll bet that if I became a thin-skinned whiner, and announced my departure because I was sick of Ed and King's anti-gun trolling, or hockey scores, or DNA testing threads, etc., he wouldn't be at all concerned about dwindling membership or interest. Just another hypocritical phony picking favorites like some school-girl popularity club. We know BrentD's real agenda is silencing anyone who disagrees with his belief in anti-lead ammunition junk science, and anyone who realizes he isn't near as intelligent as he thinks he is. It would be interesting to know DrBob's real agenda.

Good morning fellow double gun enthusiasts,
After a good nights rest, I just wanted to clarify a few things, I read Walt’s post on the picture thread. I did not take that as meaning he’s done with the forum. I really hope that we we will still see Walt frequent the forum. His knowledge is irreplaceable on Ithaca shot guns and the pictures of the rare Ithaca shotguns are always enjoyed.
Starting a thread announcing that you’re done with the forum is what I feel draws attention only to yourself and is unnecessary.
I’ve probably said too much, and will shut up now.
I enjoy reading posts about the double guns I enjoy, not so much the bickering and name calling.
I refuse to use the ignore option,
Good Day guys,
Stan

What a shock! A post about one man's suggestion about what to do about the board turning into a endless list of peeing contest is turning into a peeing contest.

The way I foresee a boycott of donations to the site is this..................... donations dry up to the point that Dave is falling far short of meeting his needs (not that I think this will happen). He looks and sees that those who have boycotted are still using the site as a freebie. He finally becomes disgusted and closes it down. This isn't economic sanctions we're talking about here. There is no basic life sustaining need for anyone to have access to a doublegun forum. It is a privilege we are afforded by Dave, and if we appreciate the effort enough we support him with donations, and deal with the trolls as best we can. If we can't, then quietly move on without fanfare.

"When" it closes down, will those who boycotted the donations in protest of Dave's lack of intervention be happy? Will they feel fulfilled?

I just don't see this as the best means to accomplish the end result desired. In my opinion, it would be a huge loss for this site to go away. It would require great will power to do what is needed to eliminate most of the trolling. That is, do not respond, ever, for any reason, to a troll. Ignoring them will eventually cause them to disappear as it takes away the one thing they desire................attention. Personally, I can live with it the way it is. I'd like for it to be different, but I'd like to be 21 again, too. Somethings just ain't happening.



SRH

Even without moderation, this forum had been the most civil forum I had been on until politics and personal bickering came along.

I've been a moderator on a much larger forum for trucks for many years. I let the members have a lot of rope and don't like to intervene. Sometimes, when I get a complaint or see a thread going off the rails or it's getting personally offensive, I just contribute a post on the thread. My presence in the thread is usually enough to straighten things out. If not, I post a reminder of the rules. If it has gone too far already, the member gets the appropriate penalty which is detailed in the published forum rules.

Forums generally use long-time stable members for moderators. It's all volunteer work. Often it's a group of members that moderate, which makes it a voting type of disciplinary action system. I'm all for such a system here. The time for moderation is overdue IMO.

Craig, the problem comes in pigeonholing people by their votes. I don't hunt doves, but a lot of Iowans do now--and it took us a long time to get a season. One of my teammates on the Governor's Pheasant Hunt several years back had been leading that effort for a long time. He was a Democrat. He also voted in favor of changing the state's concealed carry law from "may issue" to "shall issue"--which means that county sheriffs can no longer reject an application just because they think the applicant doesn't need CC. Would I have voted for him if I'd lived in his district? You bet!

We come from a lot of different places. I don't pretend to know the local situation in every state. Much less in every Congressional district. Much less in every state legislative district. So I would suggest to you that it's really difficult to know "the fruits of their vote" . . . and one whole heckuva lot easier to say "Well, if someone voted for a guy with a D after his name, he must not be in favor of protecting the Constitution. And in particular not the 2nd Amendment."

And by the way, Craig . . . Iowa's precinct caucuses give those who attend the opportunity to suggest planks for the party's state platform. At my Republican caucus several years ago, I stood up and offered the motion to support a change from "may issue" to "shall issue" in Iowa. That motion passed, unanimously. And after the next session of the state legislature, that change was made. So . . . just like taking the oath to protect the Constitution and signing on the dotted line to serve my country, I'm a guy who believes in action. Not just words. And especially not just words on a BB where we're mostly preaching to the choir. What we say here won't protect the Constitution and won't make for more 2A friendly gun laws. So I'm proud to say I've walked the walk, not just talked the talk . . . to a bunch of other gun people.

Well done Larry and well said.

While I don't live in the US, I think this is the same in both countries....most of us are not single issue voters. While I happen to think gun rights are the canary in the coal mine for personal freedoms and rights, they are not the only thing I think about when I go to the polls.

I also happen to believe in free speech. I don't mean theoretically, I mean in practice. As such, I'm not interested in behaving in a way that shuts down discussion or debate. In practice, that's hard, especially in person, because I have to battle my own instincts and allow others "air" time. However, I remain convinced that the best way to counter stupid ideas is to air them thoroughly and in public.

I'd agree with cback, well said Larry.

Do you mind if I constructively expand on your thoughts? Personally, I have never pretended to have gotten some ideal policy or results from any candidate that I've ever voted for, but it's never been lost on me that I'm not a one issue or emotional voter. We can all come up with anecdotal examples, but the truth is, as I know it, that Democrats support party leadership, lockstep. Yes, I know there is an occasional opposing vote, but only after a Senator or Representative is released by leadership to position themselves for reelection.

I can't for a moment make any claim to understand local and state politics, but I do have a strong suspicion of where future national policy makers come from. I know there's always bickering, but generally pc gets the word out, then don't we see true colors when a little resistance shows up?

Now the truth comes out....Dr.bOb you should be ashamed of yourself.

If I was a moderator I'd have no problem'O throwing you off this site.

I vote to ban BrentD

Only moderation that is overdue is removal of a few muslim loving communistic liberal people...that truth be known are anti-gun.

Amen....

Excuse me buddy bOb...anyone that would start a thread like this should be shown the door.

Stan, I couldn't disagree with you more. Furthermore, your approach hasn't and isn't working.

Stan could care less if your highness disagrees with him. Is your example of it working the old shootingsportman bbs??? Haha. That place is a ghost town. It was really good back in the day...before the nutty moderators got ahold of it. How about upland journal? A bunch of back patting, poacher defending (roysetters debacle), goof balls.
Like I said earlier....each and every one of you’s who publicly states (to get pats on the back and fake support) that they’re leaving and publicly states that they no longer support the board financially and are actively encouraging others to do so all the while continuously using the board for their benefit (learning things, asking questions, buying items, pimping their books, etc, should be banned for life.

Sorry you feel that way LeFusil. Looks like nothing will change. Expect the current degradation of conditions to continue.

alabama 29, lsu nuttin...roll tide roll...

On the assumption that it's me you're disagreeing with, and not Stanley Hoover, I must say I find that bit of "news" highly encouraging.

SRH

So just exactly when was this more genteel time when there was no politics or personal bickering?

Here's a political Thread from over 11 years ago where King was posting his anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric and his continued denial of the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=38521&page=1

Here's a 2007 personal attack thread:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24964#Post24964

Here's a 2008 thread accusing a long time member of cheating him out of money on a gun deal that turned sour:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=38521&page=1

Here's an old thread that resulted in one of Ed Good's suspensions as a result of his threats. This thread contains even more links to several other threads with his trolling and disruptive behavior:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348207&page=1

There's plenty more politics, personal bickering, and incivility where that came from.

Maybe the bad memories of the bad old days just fade with time... or maybe some people think they can get away with Fake News if they simply keep repeating a falsehood often enough. If only they could silence people like me who take the time to prove them wrong and expose their bullshit...

The real question is why B. Dudley, BrentD, and a few other thin-skinned whiners don't leave and start their own forum where they can rule and dictate and moderate to their hearts content. It should be wildly successful, according to them. Are they afraid it would fall on its' face???

Amen...pass the plate.

I’m sending a check to Dave tomorrow. It’s been awhile since I have donated and frankly, I feel a bit guilty utilizing his forum and not donating enough. Thanks Dave for having this forum for all to use. I’ve learned a lot about guns here and I’ve even been convinced here to alter some of my political views. For example, I once thought a proof house in the USA would be a good idea only for safety reasons for altered guns (e.g., backbored guns). What a terrible idea that was.....more government control of anything, but especially guns, is just a horrible idea and a vessel for only more gun control. Thanks for setting me straight here, guys. It also opened my eyes showing me that not all political discussions here are bad and that it is worthwhile to listen to other’s opinions I don’t necessarily agree with. I do see, however, it is best if we stay civil having these discussions, and for the most part they are civil discussions, but not always.

it was interesting to review some of the highly edited versions of old threads posted here...in addition to creative editing, noticed that much conflict here results from off topic personal attacks launched by fictitious members here...who, because of their apparent animinity, appear to believe they have license to post anything they want here with impunity and without fear of reprisal...

so, one of the ways to reduce or even eliminate off topic personal attacks here, would be the threat of being exposed...all members would be registered here with their full personal id... and that would be with the understanding that at the request of another member or his legal representative, that the moderator would release said personal id info, at his discretion, and at the full peril of the perp...

hopefully, just the mere possibility of exposure would act as a deterrent.. which would then result in a decrease in off topic personal attacks and an increase in forum peace and harmony...

Sorry to hear that, Stan.

I'll remember that though. I mistook you for a better man.

Hate to tell you Brent, but condescending statements such as this are exactly what causes deterioration and demise around here.

Yeah, I don't know Ed. Easy to figure out who I am. I don't really hide. You threatened me with legal action a few years ago in a PM, and then got enraged when I exposed that fact to the board by quoting your PM.

While I disagree with a lot of your politics and your gunsmithing views, it's that kind of bullshit resorting to threats that confirmed my view of you. I also note neither myself nor my solicitor has ever been contacted by your legal representative. All hat, no horse.

this thread is about the degrading of this fine forum, due to off topic posts...not about our opinions of each other...however, the act of one member here making public the content of a private message from another member here, is a shameful betrayal of trust...

as i recall, there are others here who also take pride in their lack of character...

I'd say the moral of that story was don't threaten people Ed.

I'd say that the shameful act was trying to intimidate me privately with a bogus threat of a lawsuit.

I'd say bogus threats of lawsuits because you know who I am or could easily find out degrades this fine board.

But that's just me and my bad character. What do I know?

what you do not seem to know is that this thread is about off topic posts and not about our opinions of each other...

i would pm you, to perhap discuss the value of psychological coercive intimidation vs direct allocation of legal resources, but you have just reminded us here that you cannot be trusted...

Condescenscion does not become you, Brent. I hope you can learn to live with the disappointment. I've disappointed lots of people in my life.

I don't disrespect you because we disagree often. I've just come to expect it here lately.

I wish you well, SRH

Actually Ed, you are dead wrong. This thread is not about off topic posts. It's about the rancorous and uncivil behavior of a small group of posters that the OP wishes Dave would censor or ban. That seems to fall squarely into the topic of "opinions of each other....".

You suggested in the post I responded to that our identities should be available should one of us be offended and should we want to threaten legal action. I think that's offensive and cowardly and merely threatening legal action should be a banning offense. See....I'm right on topic.

refuse to feed the troll...

You screwed up Ed, you forgot who the troll is.

Did it ever cross your mind that the lower you go and the more you post, the more ignorant you show us that you are???

nope, aint gonna do hit...aint feedin da trolls no mo...

wow, i went hunting and came back... look at what i missed...i like and appreciate this forum for the helpful advice nice guys provide, and I try to reciprocate.

Whatever you say, buzz. I took Stan's remarks as VERY condescending. But I understand you are pitching for the home team.

I've come to expect much less of you suddenly, Stan. Apparently, you feel the need to be rather arrogant as well.

Like I said, I figured you for a bigger, better man than that, but so be it.

Interesting. The number one decorum advocate does it by manhood policing. I suppose that could work.

You and Dr.Bob should go play in the middle of the interstate in down town Atlanta.

Don't take it personal, Brent. It's likely just my distaste for freeloaders in general showing through.

SRH

Ah Ed, you must be thinking about our little PM exchange that I shared with the guys here. You PM' d me to ask who I really was. I convinced you that I was King Brown posting under another name, and that I was creating turmoil and dissention in order to prompt Dave into eliminating the Misfires forum. I told you that's why it was necessary for me to continue calling you an idiot.

You thought that was a great idea, proving your inclination to troll and disrupt this forum. Naturally, you felt it was unfair for me to show everyone what a creepy sick ass you really are.

I saved most of that PM exchange in case you'd like me to show everyone just how insincere you are about civility here. Your only interest is in yourself, and the dislike you have for seeing your trolling and anti-gun attitudes exposed.

BrentD isn't much better than you, wanting very much to stifle mention of his anti-lead ammo bias, and his attempts here, along with DrBob, to encourage financial harm to this forum. You both act like spoiled children too. Two of a kind really. You two should check to see if you have the same stupid DNA.

And they both need to hit the road.

yo no feedo los trollatos...

El burro sabe mas que tu, Ed.

Best,
Ted

Unreal, its the same people over and over and over, half the major players on this board have called them out time and time again and yet they remain oblivious! Its wild that these are functioning people in society, maybe thats why they vote the big D, so they can keep the insane asylums closed and are free to run amuck! Now Ed gets it, he knows whats going on, Keith called him out with the PM post above!

est el burro el trollato, tambien?

No. Don ed es el idioto.

Best,
Ted

Another thread on a subject that has come up over the years. This is like going to a party and having conversations with a variety of people. The ones I enjoy and are mature I continue to interact with. The rude self important ones get ignored.
While I have met and hunted with Dr. Bob and understand/share his disgust with the attacks that are frequent on this board I also see this board as an incredible opportunity to read, interact and learn about a subject of which I am passionate. Dave is generous beyond measure. Imagine a world without his wonderful journal which has been a beacon for double gun lovers. His only error is in the assumption that people using this board place double guns as their first love. I will contribute tonight as I value this a great deal.

How sweet...

did Dr.bOb make you pay for gas and lunch ?

On my favorite forum, impolite posts are just removed and if continued, the impolite poster is removed.

This works well and leaves a group of enjoyable folk to share topics of common interest without being offended by the "bad breath" of a few.

If only life was such a bed of roses...

And just who would you put in charge of controlling free speech ?

Whiner bOb ?

I tend to wonder why it's considered polite to keep resurrecting things that we're claiming to be turds in the punchbowl. Maybe, most of us just comment on the things that we like the best, because it's so difficult to just start a thread about enjoyable stuff.

Kinda funny how the turds just keep floating to the top....

Who decides or what criteria is used to decide what is impolite?

If it's politely said but patently false, is that removed? If it's politely said but of a political nature, is that removed?

canvasback asks some great questions.

Talk is cheap. I'd like to see if site traffic and participation increased or decreased on the Lefever Forum since DrBob took over that forum and instituted his management vision.

I think we already know the answer to that one. And the Lefever forum was never a contentious place, largely because they didn't have any anti-2nd Amendment or anti-lead ammunition trolls who were continually stirring shit.

Or we can choose, like Dr. Bob has done, to simply refuse to drink from a contaminated punch bowl.

I've got news for you. DrBob was logged in to this "contaminated punch bowl" yesterday at around 2:30 PM.

I was hoping he'd have a financial report to show the members of the Lefever Arms Collectors Assn. what they are getting for their money. Or at least he might have told us how the servers are crashing from too much traffic on the Lefever Forum ever since he took over running that website. Instead, he dropped his load of crap here, and hopes he inspired people like you to boycott this site without really leaving.

I think we tend to comment on things that we just want to comment on. I think it would have been simpler to take other paths. Eleven pages?, it would appear much easier to get an old double back on face. Knowing the format, maybe the thread was started in anticipation of responses.

There's a post on the LAC forum from a disgruntled double gun shop guy not Dr.Bob, asking if any one knows who keith is.

I do not post or participate on the Lefever forum cherry bomb. I am not registered, and have no plans to register. Can you enlighten us and tell us why the "disgruntled double gun shop guy" is disgruntled with such a perfect forum?

It wasn’t about hockey, was it?


__________________________
For builder.
https://youtu.be/2Ca-y3osFkU

Watch out its a rouse to get the traffic up!

Because keith took him to task for his posts here on double gun shop, and he wants to know who k is cuz k seems to know lefever guns and some one there may know k's identity.

I'm trying hard to decipher your reply cherry bomb, but it doesn't make much sense. It sounded as if the disgruntled guy was disgruntled with the Lefever forum.

Who wants to know who I am, and why would it matter whether or not I know anything at all about Lefever guns? (I do know quite a bit about them. Enough to know that the Lefever Forum or Lefever Arms Collectors Assn. has nothing to offer me while under DrBob's tutelage) I took DrBob to task because he had no right or reason to publicly go after Dave for the way he chooses to manage his website... especially when his own Lefever forum doesn't seem to be doing so well under his management style, by all accounts. For one thing, this entire Thread falls under the heading of OFF-TOPIC NON-DOUBLE-GUN Threads that, according to the hypocritical whiners and complainers, has absolutely no business here.

I also took B. Dudley to task, and BrendD as well, because they are both whiners and crybabies who are once again throwing a tantrum because they can't convince Dave to run his forum the way they want to run it. I also asked why those three, and a few others, don't just start their own forum using their own vision for what this place should be:

You've probably figured this out Keith but CB, not me, is trying to say that someone from here, who is pissed at you, has gone to the Lefever site, thinking you may be a member there because of your interest in Lefever guns, hoping to find someone who knows who you are so they can ascertain your true identity.

I'd be quaking in my boots, twas I you. Bwahahahaha!

Yes James, I think that's what cherry bomb was trying to say, in a strangely round-about way. I held my tongue for years with my opinions about both the Lefever Forum and the Lefever Arms Collectors Assn., until DrBob felt it was his civic duty to come here and undermine Dave's forum with this entirely Off-Topic thread. As I said, I have no use for either the Forum or LACA. I don't try to tell Dave how to run his show either. He has informed all parties on numerous occasions that this is his sandbox. He has a lot more patience than me, but I do take the time to point out verifiable facts to counter some of the Fake News we get here. RARiddell points out a possible ruse, but there are lots of ruses here, courtesy of the F.A.G.'s and FUDD's who wish to stifle any view they disagree with. Contrary to what these whiners constantly try to tell us, there were personal attack, off-topic, and political threads here years ago. I provided links to a number of them as proof, and we heard crickets chirping again. And contrary to what the whiners try to tell us, gun politics threads generate a great deal of interest here, as they should, since Liberal Left Democrats are a much greater threat to our guns than rust or oil soaked stocks.

I pointed that out again when I cited my recent Judge Brett Kavanaugh thread. It has now actually exceeded the number of views generated by Greg's very popular 2018 Guns and Game Pictures Thread, even though it is now far down the subjects list. And it went on as long as it did because of the participation and input of some of the whiners who complain that politics has no place here. You can't make this shit up... and there is a view counter to confirm it:

Judge Brett Kavanaugh-- Less OT than many Threads

Quaking in my boots, indeed!

yawn...

If you're sleepy, go to bed.

BTW, Ed, have you made any donations lately to Dave for the upkeep and administration of this forum, or are you in the "boycott" too?

SRH

uh stan...not sleepy...jes bored wid keet's incessant pontificating...

an did you make a contribution here recently,,,or are you free loadin like udders here?

Look that up for yourself. I'm not going to make it easy for you.

SRH

look it up...what a great idea...perhaps you should have done that yourself, instead of instigating this little bit of nonsense...

Here's a few things for you to look up Ed.

Pledge Drive to Permanently Ban Ed Good

Pledge Drive to Ban ed good For Good. Part Deux

Anti-Gun Posts by Ed Good

Do you still hold the all-time record for getting suspended from this and other forums Ed? Maybe you should try signing up for DrBob's forum and see how welcome a well known Troll like you would be there. You won't have to worry about me doing any pontificating because I don't go there. But I can't help wondering where DrBob, BrentD, and the other hypocritical whiners were when you and King were breaking the rules Dave imposed when he started his "Preserve the 2nd Amendment Thread: Informational" which was pinned to a place of honor at the top of the subjects list until you and King kept disrupting it?:

Preserve the 2nd Amendment thread - Informational

See Ed... you really aren't totally worthless when you do so much to help me make my case.

no feedo los trolletoes...

.I'm man enough to apologise when I'm wrong. Did not catch your full name as being Edmund.

My mistake. I apologise.

SRH

stan: why not just vow to refrain from off topic posts and personal attacks...

if we could all do just that, then this forum would be a much better place...

Tell you what, ed. I'll make you a deal. You stop trying to sound like a illiterate when you type your posts and I'll stay on topic.

Deal?

SRH

stan: you evah read uncle remus...

he mah inspiration, long wid cassius clay...an pa kettle...

an thinkin bout hit, you don need me to hep ya stay on topic an control yo self in order to refrain from dem personal attacks...

you can do hit awl by yo self...ifen you is de man you say you is...

I give up. Ed thinks he is Uncle Remus.

I'm not a man easily discouraged, but I just give up........

SRH

A second rate third rate Uncle Remus. ed, iffen has two f’s you idjit.


____________________________
That cassius clay is ok but I prefer play doh my own self.

Guys,
haven't we been down this road often enough with Ed? If we don't engage in any conversations or respond to his illiterate and childish posts, we take his fun away.
Enough said,
Stanley

Qui non existit in vita mea

SRH

More like Uncle Anus.

Why doesn't this thread just disappear?...Geo

Because Uncle Anus and his brother hemorrhoids keep dropping a fresh turds in the punch bowl....

imagine watt cassicus clay coudda acomplished, iffen, say he was born a white guy in sum place like, say coneckteecut...

ah mean he coulda gone to jale, an awl dat...

White guy in Connecticut? Probably would have been a dentist. Or even worse, a lawyer.


____________________________

Not golfing today?

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/24779...le-s-What-.html

Not today; not ever...Geo

I just sent a donation to Dave and I couldn't care less if he is getting "rich" on our donations to this site (which of course I do not believe). I still enjoy it and get something from it almost every time I log in. Just this morning as a matter of fact with the choke chart posted by Boats!! Thanks Dave.

For Geo...


___________________________
https://youtu.be/T5qalNX5G94

Yup, that about sums it up...Geo

You know exactly why this thread doesn't just disappear Geo. It doesn't disappear because the Fake Ass Gentlemen (F.A.G.'s) and Thread Police who claim to be so deeply offended by Off-Topic threads actually support the type of censorship that DrBob, BrentD, B. Dudley, and others wish to have here.

If it were any other way, they would have been engaged in a concerted, behind the scenes effort to engage in enough complaints to Dave that the thread would be locked or deleted entirely. But you've been around here long enough to know all about the school-girl games that are played here, haven't you?

To Stanley Hoover... what encourages Ed is the handful of guys who actually think that they can change him by treating him with respect and dignity, and by responding to his stupid fake questions. He is an anti-gun troll, and needs to be treated like an anti-gun troll... period. Stan and canvasback are correct to call him out on it, and his own idiotic words are his worst enemy.

no feedo el trollodondo...

"Ignore this user" is a wonderful thing

It is little more than an estrogen patch for crybabies. Most of them can't avoid peeking, and then they get all butt-hurt and complain even more.

Amen brotha...pass the plate.

Agree. If everyone used it, the bozos that are doing nothing other than looking for an argument would go somewhere else where they can find an audience. They're the screaming little kids that need attention.

Looks like Chuckie needs his patch

I guess we're through here. It's 6:57 PM and the last post was 6:12 AM. The last and only point I will make is that a poster who pretends to be illiterate in his posting language probably is, illiterate, that is. In my experience, he probably sells bad guns also.

These guys are cyber bullies that censor our members by badgering them. They have defacto become the moderators of this forum. They have years of hounding others and contributing zip. They need to be gone.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

Is the DoubleGun BBS worth saving?
What's the plan?

Truth.

Worth saving? I think so, but if it won't clean up, then it won't get my money and may go away. Too bad.

My plan is to not support Dave's failure to provide the service he advertises. He sells a product that does not measure up to his claims. I am not buying any more.

If he improves his product to the point that it meets his advertised claims, then I'll become a paying customer again.

Simple.

Capitalism in action.

Capitalism in action...as you continue to freeload?? You’ve got a lot of nerve BrentD.

You freeloading prick. STFU and send Dave some coin you pompous blowhard.

You are just one of the problems, Le Fuse

You sound like a [censored] on welfare. I’m the problem? I pay my way sucka.

Pay Dave.

There has been improvement of late. There seems an effort to to minimize breast-beating.

No, you are the sucker. You pay for a service that is not delivered.

If Dave doesn't want me "freeloading" he is free to toss me off. If he really doesn't like freeloading in general, he can take the entire board private and make it by paid subscription only. That is his decision. Not yours.

I choose not to pay for services that are not rendered. Plain an simple.

And you simply contribute to the problem.

Don't let the door hit you in the arse...


And take the senile socialist King fish brown with you.

Ah joey, I'm not going anywhere. Don't ya love it?

Dave’s free to “toss you off”? You’d like that wouldn’t you? Fag.

The problem here BrentD is that you continue to use a board that you refuse to donate to and actively encourage others to follow your lead. The actively encouraging others to basically bankrupt a board that you continue to use....That’s wrong. If you don’t like it, leave. Just leave. STFU and leave. You offer absolutely nothing here. Nothing at all. Zero gun knowledge. You obviously NEED this board more than the board needs your freeloading ass. Just hit the bricks. Beat it. Be gone with you. And quit asking Dave to toss you off. It’s inappropriate.

One more socialist idiOt doesn't bother me none....

I simply do not care what you think and I don't take orders from you. I don't know if you quite grasp that yet, but ponder it a bit and you will figure it out.

Liberals are only concerned with their own vision...

Go kick rocks BrentD. Nobody wants an outspoken blabber mouth freeloader that no one likes stinking up the place and encouraging people to bankrupt the board. Asta.

Not your call, sorry. Just the market doing its thing, we both will have to sit back and see what happens. Probably nothing.

Live with it.

He's a liberal professor...that truth be known shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm.

BrentD, you’re absolutely right. It’s not my call. I just assumed that anyone with a hint of self esteem and a shred of decency would voluntarily leave a group, discussion, gathering, etc. when they realized that they don’t have anything to offer other than encouraging people to bankrupt a discussion board. Hmm.

What’s the matter Joe? Did that goat you fu@k nightly finally get smart and eat some pine cones? Is that what made you feel uncomfortable this morning?

Somebody throw up some hockey scores. Quick.

Team M lost last night. Ha Ha.


__________________________
How ‘bout them Sabres, eh?

idiot

Courtesy of lonesome...Geo

https://www.google.com/search?q=alabama+...me&ie=UTF-8

roll tide roll...

I need to visit more often.

This thread is a hoot. This forum (and others) were wild and crazy in the early days. (1990's)

The current impolite discussions are mild compared to then. When this board allowed anonymous posting it made the current whining seem like nothing.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

So BrentD makes this idiotic announcement saying he doesn't take orders from LeFusil... yet he is all butt-hurt and angry because Dave won't take orders from him. This is exactly how you would expect a spoiled child to act.

BrentD's mentality (or lack thereof) shines like a supernova in this post.

Now for some more amusement, consider this paradox... nca225 makes a post like this, and King Brown, Gladys Kravitz, B. Dudley, BrentD, DrBob, and all of the other Fake Ass Gentlemen (F.A.G.'s) are as silent as a Church mouse.



Amazing! If I had posted this, they would all be PM'ing, e-mailing, and calling each other and organizing behind the scenes to whine, b!tch, and complain to Dave to have me banned forever for rude and vulgar behavior. They would be pontificating about the eternal importance of posting under our full names, even though doing so would place our families at risk from thieves and crack-heads looking to steal guns. They would also be urging you to stop supporting this website financially. But what do you all hear??? Crickets... a soft breeze... nothing... not a damn thing. Why? Because nca225 is one of their fellow libtards, so he/she is excused.

This is hardly the first time we have seen their selective outrage. It should tell us something about them, and their veracity and honesty.

If hypocrites could fly, this would be an International Airport. But they honestly think they have some moral superiority. You can learn a lot about double guns here. But you can learn more about people if you just pay close attention to what they do, rather than what they say.