I pulled into my driveway about an hour ago, maybe 1 1/2 hrs. after dark, and saw something large on the ground just above the terrace in my front yard. As I continued up the driveway and got nearer I saw it was a large bird, and it tried to fly with something in it's grasp. It couldn't, dropped it, and flew off into the night. I could see as it did that it was large owl, which I assume was a Great Horned Owl, as I have been hearing one near my house at night lately.
I saw that it left something on the ground when it flew off so I stopped my truck and walked around to see what it had killed. I was stunned when I picked up the headless body, and in the dim light from my yard lights, saw it was another raptor. At first I thought it was a big red-tailed hawk, and then noticed that it was headless. I looked on the ground and saw a big ball of feathers, which I picked up. To my utter surprise it was the head of another really big owl. I tossed body and head over in the back of my truck. I'll look more closely at it tomorrow morning, to determine what species of owl it is.
This Great Horned Owl had killed another big owl in my front yard, cut it's head off, and was about to have supper, I guess, when I drove in. Amazing what things I see out here in the sticks.
Anybody else ever seen a raptor kill another raptor for food? Or, maybe to eliminate the competition?
Gordon Gullion’s research showed that predator on predator feeding increased when prey populations plummeted. Which would seem to demonstrate just the opposite, they do prefer grouse and red squirrels when they are available, to eating each other.
Stan, I saw a great horned owl take a small house cat at twilight, a few dogs ago. The cat had a pink collar on, I always wondered if that made for an interesting pellet out of that bird.
Ted, I had an owl take a house cat off my front porch once, at night. We were inside watching Little House On The Prairie, and when it occurred it was such a ruckus I grabbed a pistol before looking out the front door. Nothing left but some yellow fur under the rocking chair. Never saw the cat again.
Plenty of prey species here. Grey squirrels by the score in my yard all day long.
OK, so, within two postings we have gone from they don’t think much about what they kill, just wanting to have dinner, to rather shrewd behavior of eliminating competition. I’m willing to believe that happens, but, would tend to believe it is a very, very rare thing. Most predators probably expect a meal at the end of the effort it takes to overcome a small prey animal, and a least a primitive notion that chances of success against another, equal predator are less. Stan’s owl would more than likely have begun consuming her kill (the big ones are females) had Stan not shown up. They may eliminate competition. But, except in a case like this one, I’d wager there is always a meal at the end of it. The calories it takes to pull that off are too precious to not replace.
Ted, lots of territorial species fight. Not always to the death. Wolves are a classic example of where it is quite common however. Lions as well. Even chimps. I don't know that GHOs do that, but it would not surprise me much.
In entirely different circumstances, about 50% of the death of juvenile prairie dogs in some species and populations is through cannibalism, though they are not always consumed, which brings about a lot of speculation as to the evolutionary cause of it. Most cases are of females killing the litters of other females in a coteri
From Wikipedia - the source of all "facts" Territoriality appears to place a limit on the number of breeding pairs in a given area. Individuals prevented from establishing a territory live a silent existence as "floaters". Radio-telemetry revealed that such floaters concentrate along boundaries of established territories. At Kluane in Yukon, incursions into neighboring territories were observed only twice—by females when neighboring female had died or emigrated, suggesting that territorial defense may be sex specific. At least four dead great horned owls in Kluane were apparently killed by others of their own species in territorial conflicts.[29] Owls killed by other horned owls are sometimes cannibalized, although the origin of the killing may have been territorial aggression.[65] Northern populations occasionally erupt south during times of food shortage,[66] but there is no annual migration even at the northern limits of the great horned owl's range.[29]
We have had a snow white owl on our property two winters back. Illegal immigrant from a special population somewhere in Canada that I have forgotten.
OK, so, within two postings we have gone from they don’t think much about what they kill, just wanting to have dinner, to rather shrewd behavior of eliminating competition.
Nice catch Ted... even if it seems a bit "ruthless" to catch Mr. Know-it-all, BrentD contradicting himself once again. But if you keep questioning why BrentD keeps putting his foot in his mouth, he will shoot you, the messenger, and make even more calls for people to boycott and not support this site.
And how about this moment of biological brilliance:
Originally Posted By: BrentD
In entirely different circumstances, about 50% of the death of juvenile prairie dogs in some species and populations is through cannibalism, though they are not always consumed, which brings about a lot of speculation as to the evolutionary cause of it.
Sorry BrentD, but if a member of some species kills a member of its' own species, but doesn't consume them, even partially, then it isn't cannibalism.
But none of this is surprising to me. I've noted in the past that BrentD (and his pal Larry) apparently accepts highly contradictory lethal blood lead levels in eagles in the junk scientific papers he clings to in support of lead ammunition bans. That's why I consider him to be an intellectual... and why I like the classic definition of an intellectual as being someone who is educated above and beyond his intelligence.
I'm fully content with the idea of raptors consuming rapters. Around my home, they are a pestilence in thick numbers. Guess how many ducks fly into your decoy spread when there are 3 bald eagles perched in a tree nearby. It can be very frustrating. They seem to be fearless too! I have had a red tail zip down and snatch a pheasant out of the grass 10 feet from me. Oh well...nothing much we can do I suppose.
I've seen various DNR reports commenting of finding headless dead turkeys, usually birds of the year. Theory is owl predation at night as the turkeys roost in the tree tops. Nothing else noted eaten but the heads. An acquaintance told me he went outside in our neighborhood to call in his tomcat and his presence surprised a Great Horned as it swooped down at his cat but missed it.
From experience with them over a lifetime of farming I can say this...........they are extremely strong fliers when carrying a prey animal, much stronger than the biggest red-tail hawk. I've seen a red-tail kill a rabbit in front of my corn combine, and it can barely get it off the ground enough to fly off from the combine. A big owl can take a full grown rabbit, or house cat, and fly off with it with ease, gaining altitude very quickly. Gonna be interesting later this morning to see if the dead one in my truck is a Great Horned, or some other specie.
I like having them around. I kinda like the wildness they represent. I wouldn't care if they killed every housecoat that prowls the hedgerows. But, we have to watch our little 6 lb. Yorkie carefully when he goes out. We almost always keep him on a leash. Too many things around here that would eat him.
Back in the late sixties and early 70's when I lived in New Jersey I used to hunt with friends at a place called Flatbrook, actually it was Big Flatbrook which was a nice trout stream, the surrounding fields were stocked with pheasants by the state. They used to stock them at twilight when you could not hunt. By shooting time the next day we would take the dogs and go after them, I remember more than once, the dog going on point and no bird would flush, the dog would go in and pick a pheasant up with no head. Some of the birds were still warm. I found out that owls would rather swallow the heads that any other part, more protein in them. Some one gave the Great Horned Owl a good name, Tiger of the Sky.
Yorkie, “it what’s for dinner”. That sounds like a real bad tv commercial. Poodle owners about ten mile from me have reported several dogs lost to coyotes. Seems the coyotes jump into the back yard, grab FeFe and are gone in a flash.
A friend has a game farm and he tells me Owls will kill his Pheasant in their covered flight pen. Seems they flush the birds and when the bird gets caught up in the netting, they then swoop down and bite the head off. He had several dead pheasant, without heads, found in the morning. He spent several nights watching the pen before he saw what caused it. It was a big owl. He did not say how he discouraged the owl. But over the years he’s had several repeats. Cost of doing business and if the bird is still a fresh kill he just dresses if out for use later.
That's why I consider him to be an intellectual... and why I like the classic definition of an intellectual as being someone who is educated above and beyond his intelligence.
I have read that great horned owls also hunt, kill, and eat wild turkey at night, knocking the turkey to the ground and killing it there. One writer even documented his killing of GHO to protect turkey so that he could hunt them. Maybe he preferred turkey to GHO ?
Killing a GHO is frown on in my state. If you have a problem with one you’d better call the Game Warden and go from there. Personally I’d just leave them alone and enjoy their call in the night.
Killing a GHO is frown on in my state. If you have a problem with one you’d better call the Game Warden and go from there. Personally I’d just leave them alone and enjoy their call in the night.
I think it might be a federal issue - raptors get special attention from the Feds. That said, to protect livestock, I doubt you will have much of an issue with the law.
I also doubt GHOs are significant predators on turkeys or other game birds at a population level.
keet, yeah yeah, now ah members bout bennie...ah shot his ass fur goin out at night an catchin an killin grouse on his own...little bastard would kill erm an jest eat da heads, an leave da rest o da bird on da ground...now mebbee bennie had ah thang wid da aints, but dont wanna no bout dat...ah hated to do hit, but cant abide wastin birds...no watt ah mean...an ah certainly did not take no pleasure in killin bennie...well mebbee jest ah little...ah mean, he was a ferice little bugger...when he was hot on the tail of ah grouse, his normally yaller eyes would glow like red hot coals at night...kinda reminded me of how ah shotgun receiver looks after hit was heated red hot wid da torch, no watt ah mean...
anyway, henry was bennies cuzin, from savannah, twist removed, an kin to da wilkes, don ja know...
So tell us how his name now got changed to Beto. And could you also tell us why you and BrentD seem to have so much in common? Just how much DNA do you and BrentD share, and how did that happen?
I don't think it is anything more than it's an easy place to start dismantling the victim, whether just to kill it or eat it. I don't think owls are special that way.
If they can swallow it whole, of course, then they skip the decapitation.
Weasels seem to do the same thing to mice. Head first. Then the rest. My dogs do it with rabbits. Always head first.
If the scene is left undisturbed the head eater whether feather or furred returns the next day to continue eating. Formula: C21H22N2O2 is an old doggers trick. O.M
Yeah I know that & that is why it is no longer available to Joe Citizen. Vengeance is mine saith The Lord. However, some have not the patience to wait. O.M
Theory is or has been that the brains are highly nutritious and also taste good to hawk and owls. Where prey numbers are high enough it is not uncommon for hawks to just eat the head, if you raise enough chickens with hawks around you most likely have seen that.
Mayo Clinic Rochester, Mn. has participated in a peregrine falcon breeding program since the mid 80's with a nesting pair on top of one the taller buildings. There are plenty of pigeons for them to pick from and they often eat just the heads in mid air after the kill and drop the rest on the sidewalks below. We have a team that goes around and picks up the dead pigeons every morning before patients show up. Apparently some are offended by headless bloodied pigeons in their path.
There are only something like 50 nesting pair of peregrine falcons in Mn. and most are in man made structures. The birds that are moved to the bluffs along the Mississippi river which is their nature habit usually don't make it through the first year. Great Horned Owls are the reason why. The peregrine is one of the few raptors that can give a GHO a run for the money. But the GHO pick them off at night sitting on the cliffs and the main reason their numbers are not climbing.
While fly fishing a couple of years ago stumbled across one of the few peregrine nesting pair in the wild here.
Have been checking on them for the last 2 years and so far still around.
I also shoot a lot of bald eagles. While I watch them pick off a coot once in awhile, and bless them they are welcome to all they can get LOL, they aren't the most "rapture" of raptures. Have watched dozens of them pick through fresh spread manure in a field. And old road kill is not beneath them. They also spend more time trying to steal food from other eagles then they do getting their own. They are certainly a different type of rapture than owls and hawks in my book.
Baldies are also the easiest to shoot. With the camera of course. Hawks are much harder and owls the most difficult of all. I like hooters the best personally.
Theory is or has been that the brains are highly nutritious and also taste good to hawk and owls. Where prey numbers are high enough it is not uncommon for hawks to just eat the head, if you raise enough chickens with hawks around you most likely have seen that.
Mayo Clinic Rochester, Mn. has participated in a peregrine falcon breeding program since the mid 80's with a nesting pair on top of one the taller buildings. There are plenty of pigeons for them to pick from and they often eat just the heads in mid air after the kill and drop the rest on the sidewalks below. We have a team that goes around and picks up the dead pigeons every morning before patients show up. Apparently some are offended by headless bloodied pigeons in their path.
There are only something like 50 nesting pair of peregrine falcons in Mn. and most are in man made structures. The birds that are moved to the bluffs along the Mississippi river which is their nature habit usually don't make it through the first year. Great Horned Owls are the reason why. The peregrine is one of the few raptors that can give a GHO a run for the money. But the GHO pick them off at night sitting on the cliffs and the main reason their numbers are not climbing.
While fly fishing a couple of years ago stumbled across one of the few peregrine nesting pair in the wild here.
Have been checking on them for the last 2 years and so far still around.
I also shoot a lot of bald eagles. While I watch them pick off a coot once in awhile, and bless them they are welcome to all they can get LOL, they aren't the most "rapture" of raptures. Have watched dozens of them pick through fresh spread manure in a field. And old road kill is not beneath them. They also spend more time trying to steal food from other eagles then they do getting their own. They are certainly a different type of rapture than owls and hawks in my book.
Baldies are also the easiest to shoot. With the camera of course. Hawks are much harder and owls the most difficult of all. I like hooters the best personally.
Great post, brother.
We have a Bald Eagle's nest that overlooks the dock at our summer place, it's about 15 feet high.....creates severe legal restrictions on where else we can build on the island. I'm glad they are around, I wish they'd move their nest to the next, unoccupied island but they aren't my favorite raptor.
Many years ago, a friend told me that, while at a campground in Alaska, he saw raptor, it might have been an owl, but I don't remember, grab a small dog on a leash and try to fly off with it. A tug-of-war followed between the raptor and the dog's owner holding the end of the leash. The raptor finally gave up, released the dog, and flew off. The dog fell to the ground and survived the attack.
We have a Bald Eagle's nest that overlooks the dock at our summer place, it's about 15 feet high.....creates severe legal restrictions on where else we can build on the island. I'm glad they are around, I wish they'd move their nest to the next, unoccupied island but they aren't my favorite raptor.
Ospreys and Owls!
Brother canvasback!
Well guess it should come as no surprise to either of us that the Osprey is my favorite and at the top of my list. Unfortunately they are even more rare than the Peregrine Falcon here. Doesn't stop me from looking each Spring though! 4 years ago on the Wi. side of the river did catch a pair in a nesting box more than a quarter mile from the bank.
My first bird picture was of a "fish hawk" back in the early 70's with a Polaroid camera. Osprey were still somewhat plentiful then.
This thread brings back memories of my summers growing up when we moved to the lake for the season. At his business, my dad raised birds as sort of a hobby and tourist attraction - ringnecks, goldens, silvers, wood ducks, chukars, bobwhite, pea fowl - various others. He thought he would stock our island for shooting come fall but none of the pheasants lasted more than a night. All were killed by mink and found headless in the morning. The guinea fowl had a reputation of guard dogs among bird flocks but likewise all were found first morning without their heads. I'm quite sure through the summers we would have known if there was an owl about and quite confident the carnage was by mink.
The smaller hawks, such as the sharp-shinned and Cooper's, are the most efficient daytime raptors I know of. They have made a comeback in my lifetime from basically zero, in the '50s through the 90s, to abundance now. I see them everyday on the farm, and driving the roads. They just seem to never miss a quail. I have been sitting in my truck watching wild bobs feeding in the edge of a field and seen a Cooper's hawk come from behind me, fly right over my truck, and nail one of the quail. I see them chasing frantic songbirds through the hedgerows and field edges often. They are not hawks of the open areas, but frequent woods and thickets.
As many red-tails as there are, if they were as efficient as the Cooper's there wouldn't be anything left for any of them to eat. Cooper's are just stone killers........ period.
But............... BrentD says he's seen them miss lots of times.
The smaller hawks, such as the sharp-shinned and Cooper's, are the most efficient daytime raptors I know of. They have made a comeback in my lifetime from basically zero, in the '50s through the 90s, to abundance now. I see them everyday on the farm, and driving the roads. They just seem to never miss a quail. I have been sitting in my truck watching wild bobs feeding in the edge of a field and seen a Cooper's hawk come from behind me, fly right over my truck, and nail one of the quail. I see them chasing frantic songbirds through the hedgerows and field edges often. They are not hawks of the open areas, but frequent woods and thickets.
As many red-tails as there are, if they were as efficient as the Cooper's there wouldn't be anything left for any of them to eat. Cooper's are just stone killers........ period.
But............... BrentD says he's seen them miss lots of times.
SRH
Agree with this also. Cooper and sharp shined are difficult to tell apart like many hawks but both are very common now. Sometimes I don't fill my feeders because it just becomes a Cooper and sharp shined feeder.
It sure seems to me that they seldom miss from what I have observed. Couple of years ago was filling the feeders on the deck and a sharp shinned tried to pick off a meal with me standing there. Think because I was standing there he got confused and did miss. He did however hit the sliding glass door instead, he hit it so hard thought he broke it at first. Broke his neck instead.
As mentioned earlier it is a Federal offense to kill or even be in possession of a dead hawk, owl or eagle in the US. So I called the DNR and asked what should I do with it and they said just throw it in the trash.
The B-2 Stealth Bomber of raptors is the Golden Eagle. They are used to hunt wolves in the 'Stans in Asia.
Gil, Not even close. The Harpy eagle females run 20-27 pounds, with short, highly loaded wings for hunting in jungle conditions. Falconry people have used the birds for sport, but, there is a real danger of domestic livestock and children falling prey to them.
It might be a good thing the Haast's Eagle is extinct. The princple prey were flightless Moas, also extinct, that ran around 500 pounds. The female Haast's would have run 31 to 36 pounds.
Some years ago (like 60) my parents attended an outdoor wedding reception. The bridesmaids were making over a small cottontail rabbit that had wandered close to the party. Out of nowhere a hawk swooped in and made that rabbit his lunch. Tore it all to pieces in front of the bridal party. Talk about the turd in the punch bowl! As the man said, the state of nature is nasty, brutish,and short.
I once watched a Cooper's hawk kill and eat a redbird (Cardinal) in my neighbors yard.
I've also seen a Swallow-tailed Kite pair chase a songbird all through my yard. They never got him. JR
Swallow Tail Kite.....being from Winnipeg one wouldn't expect to see one of those but about 8 years ago I was at my father's 4th floor (top floor) condo, overlooking a golf course. Was kind used to Canada's cutting the corner and flying by at eye level about 10 feet from the balcony. But this day I looked out and thought "what the hell is that???" Apparently a directionally confused swallow tail kite, about 1500 miles north of his northern range.
When it comes to Owl hoots, I'll take a Barred Owl any day over a GHO. In the Spring when I turkey hunt one little "who cooks for you" will often bring on the hallelujah chorus of Barred owl responses. GHOs on the other hand have just a quiet little silly hoo hoo hoo to add to the symphony...Geo
Many years ago while glassing for antelope from a high hill, I spotted a badger lugging a dead jack rabbit. Overhead, a golden eagle was scoping out the badger. The eagle swooped down repeatedly but couldn't get the badger to give up its dinner. The badger seemed quite willing to take on the eagle, and it eventually gave up and sailed away.
The reverse happens also. Years ago, my wife and I watched a single coyote take a Jack rabbit from 2 golden eagles. I'm not exactly sure why the eagles didn't simply fly off with it, but they lost.
There was a big coyote in the harvested peanut field behind my house this morning scavenging peanuts. I told him to go kill a deer to eat and leave my dove feed alone.
Coyotes are omnivores and will feed on persimmons, pears, and other fruits if available. Southern coyotes prefer boiled, not parched peanuts in contrast to their northern brethren. Gil
At one time, when I was just a kid, maybe 8-10 years old, there was a pheasant hatchery at the large Carlos Avery WMA just north of the twin cities. A great horned owl was in the habit of flying back and forth hooting at the contained pheasants, which, would panic them, and they would rush at the chicken wire, getting their heads stuck in the holes in it. The owl would land and just walk along tearing heads off pheasants, and consuming them. I’m not sure what ever happened to the hatchery, but, the remains of the pens are still there, near the headquarters. I clearly remember walking along with my Dad, seeing dead pheasants, and the explanation the game warden gave us for what had happened to them. Dad belonged to the generation that had no time for predators. Best, Ted
How much you figure you've wasted of your life looking at this kind of crap ?
How much time you figure you've wasted of your life spreading and stirring crap like your above comment? Next time something smells of crap, try washing your face and see if that helps. Hope you got a good price on your books as long as you didn't color in them. Goes without saying you couldn't have read them. Merry Christmas
[/quote]How much time you figure you've wasted of your life spreading and stirring crap like your above comment? Next time something smells of crap, try washing your face and see if that helps. Hope you got a good price on your books as long as you didn't color in them. Goes without saying you couldn't have read them. Merry Christmas [/quote]
Too funny! Here's a fun Christmas game: who wants to assign bbs usernames to Scut Farkus and Grover Dill? Merry Christmas grOver.
How much time you figure you've wasted of your life spreading and stirring crap like your above comment? Next time something smells of crap, try washing your face and see if that helps. Hope you got a good price on your books as long as you didn't color in them. Goes without saying you couldn't have read them. Merry Christmas [/quote]
Too funny! Here's a fun Christmas game: who wants to assign bbs usernames to Scut Farkus and Grover Dill? Merry Christmas grOver. [/quote]
Good old A Christmas Story. One of the all time best.
The writer and narrator of A Christmas Story, Jean Shepherd, was a great radio raconteur. He worked at various radio stations including WOR and WBAI in NYC. He had a great radio voice and had a nightly show wherein he'd do a monologue of everyday life, including his stint in the Army in the Signal Corps. I found two DVD's containing his programs at WOR from the late 1950s to early 1960s. At one time they were available for download on the net. Earbuds plugged into my small Sansa Fuse player with sleep timer set for 20 minutes of Shep are great medicine for insomnia. Gil
The writer and narrator of A Christmas Story, Jean Shepherd, was a great radio raconteur. He worked at various radio stations including WOR and WBAI in NYC. He had a great radio voice and had a nightly show wherein he'd do a monologue of everyday life, including his stint in the Army in the Signal Corps. I found two DVD's containing his programs at WOR from the late 1950s to early 1960s. At one time they were available for download on the net. Earbuds plugged into my small Sansa Fuse player with sleep timer set for 20 minutes of Shep are great medicine for insomnia. Gil
Gil, Darren McGavin who played the father was a good friend of my next door neighbours when I was growing up. Met him a few times. Best thing he ever did.
