Does anyone know what kind of locks were used on Stephen Grant's guns such as the one on GI below?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101162486

Here is a "T. Newton" with a very similar lock patttern:

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/newton-t/side-by-side/12-gauge/181002184434001

I don't recall seeing these locks anywhere except Grant's guns. Did he hold the patent on them or something? Or is it likely he made the Newton gun?

Those two links are the same, Dan.

Yeah, I just noticed and fixed.

The locks are Scott, the same as used in the Boss.
Marc.

Thanks!

While some Boss guns have similar locks on them:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101161865

Others don't:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101165081

Tony Barclay would know better, but I doubt Boss's locks were ever made by Scott (the Scott Premiers I've seen inside of had Stanton-marked locks, btw).

As for that Stephen Grant, I'm almost certain John Robertson and his shop of outworkers made those guns.

There are a lot of similarities between those Grants and the Boss shotguns produced right after Robertson took over the company.

OWD

In general, the pattern of lock pins tells one nothing much about the genetics of the gun. Virtually 100% of gun locks at this time (late C19th) were supplied complete but unfinished by the major lock makers in the Wolverhampton area: Chiltons, Brazier etc.
There are a few basic designs, mainly based around the type of interceptor sear used (if at all) and the pin patterns may look radically different from the outside but the mechanism plan inside are very similar.
What you are looking at are main spring peg (either bar or back action), Int. sear spring, Main sear spring, Int. sear axle, Main sear axle, Tumbler axle which gives 6 pins in fairly fixed positions. The balance are the bridle pins: 2, 3 or 4 and their positions can vary greatly with cost, quality and mutation over time
Absence of the int sear and its spring reduces pins by 2.
Also in locks that use the Robertson favoured 'Spear' int. sear there is often no external evidence of a pin as the int. sear was mounted on an internal boss and retained by a pin in a blind hole.
On some lower quality, cheaper locks, there is no main sear spring, the lower limb of a back action main spring performing this function.
And don't forget that some lock pin patterns are simply designed to confuse the unwary shotgun historian!

OWD, to my untrained eyes, those lock patterns actually look very similar with the pins in what I would describe as a "flying seagull" configuration (think how a small child draws a seagull flying in the distance - literally two arches converging in the middle).

Toby, thank you for that excellent and very detailed explanation. I think I have a much firmer grasp on the mechanics of the lock as a result. I guess the takeaway is that the only way to definitively know what the internal mechanism is would be to open it up!

Just for reference, what "provoked" the inquiry is I have been staring at a lot of locks (from the exterior perspective) lately on internet guns to see if you can ascertain some indicia of quality therefrom. I see this configuration frequently which I also have on my Leech SLE (pictured). The Grant/Boss pin patterns seems far more uncommon in comparison.

Nice looking gun!

OWD

Thanks, OWD! I actually emailed you about it.

Do not confuse the shape of the lock plate with the lock workings .