Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=48&v=4UwlxYEYK1Y

JR

I guess a guy would be almost a pure hero if he were to harvest a mature turkey with a .410 with or without TSS, eh!!?? Think of the bragging rights on this forum.

No more so than someone who uses a 3-3.5" 12 ga. load with 1.75 to 2 oz. of lead shot.

So, it is effective. Why do you feel the need to shoot 3" shells when folks killed turkeys for generations with 2.75" field loads? Point is who cares, other than you, what people legally shoot turkeys with? More power to you for what you want to use. You've been on a one man mission complaining about TSS since someone (Kyle Smith) first marketed kits for ducks and geese. Hundreds of handloaders have used it since. Ammo and gun company manufacturers took notice of what amateurs were doing with it. Federal now sells it. Winchester loads it for Browning. Apex markets it. Stevens makes a .410 for it. Henry now touts it. As for idiots bragging about it making 80 yard kills, I don't like that either. However, Winchester's earliest advertisements on lead Longbeards, your ammo choice, implied effectiveness to 70 yards. I have yet to read an account where it has damaged barrels. Ten years ago or more it's effect on barrels was uncertain. Since the early concerns, I have yet to read reports of damaged barrels. Steel shot in its inception raised the same concerns. You are set in your ways and I understand that. There have been a lot of changes in turkey hunting over the decades since you and I started. Videos, pop-up blinds, decoys, specialty loads, specialty shotguns, red dots, the commercialization of turkey hunting--all changes in how people hunt them. Folks can pick and choose how they do it.
I like to do it without blinds, decoys, or belly crawling to turkey in a field with a fan. However, I'd rather carry a shotgun weighing 3 lbs. 4 oz or one weighing under 6 lbs., than one weighing closer to 8 lbs which I used to hunt with. Forty years ago, I carried a Mag 10--12.75 lbs. loaded. Folks complaining about changes and bucking the tide are nothing new. That's why this forum has membership. Doubleguns, SXS, who needs them other than the majority of those who post here?

Who you talking to GLS ?

We got us a whiner bOy eh Cuz....

Here's a free tip Cuz John Roberts

Before the rapture comes you are going to wish you had never got my posts deleted.

Amen.

You, Frank. Here's a free tip for you. I think Dave on his own deleted your posts. It was either Dave or someone else who stated on the forum that if someone requests that a thread be locked, he will do so. JR stated in his original Henry thread he wanted no further sniping from any source. I take him at his word that he didn't request your comments deleted or the thread locked. Nor did I request it be done. Remember the Ortega y Gasset thread you started around the Xmas season when you took off on a tear about me having you on ignore? The thread got yanked. I didn't ask that it be done. Either Dave did it on his own or someone else did. One of the respected elder statesmen on the board wrote a few months ago that you were a gentleman. I about fell off my stool when I read that comment. He must have had some off board personal dealings with you because it sure isn't apparent from your behavior here or the other boards that no longer welcome your presence. And when the rapture comes, dress for hot weather.

I sent Dave a PM about it...in the mean time keep whining about your ltitle manly pellet...

When y’all start talking aboot the fires in Hell I get spooked.

Especially considering my behavior here. Seeing how I’m fooked anyway

I may as well go ahead and have that leftover paczki.


____________________________
Taj Mahal
https://youtu.be/6FS1X0-MOtQ

Be careful your post may be raptured up...

Frank, you can hardly breathe without exhaling an insult or complaint. Yet you accuse others of whining. Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. Gil

So you did then exactly what you are complaining JR did to his thread. You had your own thread deleted. Classic case of hypocrisy.

Seems a lot of the threads I’m in get raptured up or locked.

What’s one more.


___________________________
Sonny Landreth
https://youtu.be/6-Dy_OMtlk4

I’m beginning to wonder if any of you guys know the real Frank Cox. In terms of all things turkey, Frank has won high level competitions with his box and trumpet calls, not only for his ability to make these calls, but to properly use them as well. In other words, making them sing such as a natural turkey would sing. His calls are coveted by turkey hunters far and wide. Competition is not everything, but it sets a bar. Frank Cox has surpassed that bar and that constitutes expertise in the realm of turkey hunting, imho. So, his opinion on everything turkey, and whether or not abrasive in style, should at least be considered. How many of the rest of you have made a coveted call that sold for as much as $2,000 at auction? That alone tells me a lot. Frank himself tries to keep his prices out of the stratosphere so that people of lesser means can obtain one of his calls. That tells me a lot about the man. Once his calls leave his possession is when we see the coveted calls going for huge money. So, there you are. When it comes to turkey hunting, I’m going to listen to an expert.

Thank you frank for this wonderful insight into yourself. None of this excuses your bloviating on this website however.

Anyone can make a turkey call that will call in a turkey. Even me. Many times over.

Only one question: what is a .410TSS?

Well BrentD, I’m not Frank Cox. My name is William McTurnan. I’m glad to hear you can make a turkey call. You can bend stocks too, rust blue barrels too, but does that make you an expert? Will a BrentD turkey call bring $2,000 at auction like a coveted Frank Cox call? Yeah right! One thing I’ve noticed here is that Frank never brags about his fame in the turkey hunting world.....and he IS an expert in that field. You, on the other hand brag about doing all sorts of things. You have so much brass you even try to convince a stocking expert on what oil to use (I think you said to use Canola oil) for hot stock bending, as opposed to using linseed oil. And, you strut around pounding your fist on the table trying to convince others to “Keep your donation in you pocket” as your tag line clearly states. I’ve never seen Frank stoop to a low level such as that, and I’ve never seen him brag about his high quality calls. You, on the other hand are bragging that you can even make calls. I suggest you enter your calls in a national competition and see how far you get. When you win, then perhaps someone will listen to your nonsense.

Tungsten Super Shot for use in a .410 shotgun

Thanks Buzz. I just remembered that Google is My Friend and discovered what the TSS round was just prior to seeing you answer. I gotta admit it sure sounds like something that is working. I would not have guessed it, but the tests by very folks I am reading about in various guns does not seem to lie! If these shells do this to turkeys I wonder how they would be for large upland game like pheasant? Anybody tried this yet? If not, what load is used by 410ers for upland game? BTW, if anybody thinks this should be a new thread I will move it.

The Federal .410 is just 1100 fps
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/fede...oz-1100fps.html

Apex has upland loads in 12g No. 9s (1550 fps!), 20g No. 9s & 3" .410 9.5s, and all out of stock Perry
We'll see what they have come fall.
https://apex-ammunition.myshopify.com/co...0-fps-10-rounds
https://apex-ammunition.myshopify.com/co...-qty-10-per-box
https://apex-ammunition.myshopify.com/co...z-9-5-box-of-10

Its a very hard pellet....here's the pellet weights.

A TSS 9's pellet weighs 1.2grs. and 9.5's TSS weighs 1gr.

They claim the #9 TSS is as effective as a #4 lead....

A lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains....a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains....both substantially more weight than the smaller TSS pellet.

Energy is figured by computing weight and velocity. There is no way a #9 TSS pellet weighing a third of a #4 lead can have more energy than a lead #4 shot moving at the same velocity.....fact is a lead #7 has more energy than a TSS #9 size shot moving at equal velocity.

The TSS bOys like to talk in ccs...

They will avoid talking about pellet weights at all cost.

Here a cc...there a cc...everywhere a cc...

ccs on the brAin.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammunition/whats-the-deal-with-tss-shotgun-shell

At 35 yards, the Remington Nitro load put 45 pellets in a 5-inch circle, with an estimated velocity of 800 fps; this translates to 204 foot pounds of energy (fpe) delivered to the target. The Federal HeavyWeight round hit the 5-inch circle with 103 pellets, at an estimated velocity of 750 fps, creating 155 foot pounds of energy smacking the target. The Remington lead No. 4s penetrated the Clear Ballistics gel approximately 6½ inches, and the Federal TSS tungsten shot penetrated 6 inches.

I found it interesting that the Federal No. 9 TSS shot embedded in a mostly uniform pattern, with the majority of the pellets having traveled the same depth in the ballistic gelatin. The Remington No. 4 lead pellets pierced the medium about 6½ inches — a few went deeper than that, and several traveled less. While I don’t have any real slow-motion video proof, this would indicate the TSS load is delivering the shot charge to the target in an even manner, with a short shot string.

Some would say this is an unimpressive showing for the TSS load because it produced slightly less foot pounds of energy and velocity to the target. You must, however, look at the number of pellets. While 45 pellets for the lead in a 5-inch circle is certainly not bad, 103 TSS pellets is twice as good. It should also be noted that a TSS-specific choke tube would produce a higher pellet count on the target. Double the number of pellets would certainly give more room for error when taking a bead on a turkey’s head.

Room for error only happens when a pattern increases in size....I find it comical that they claim TSS files farther because it's more dense.

My question is: If the TSS really is superior to old fashioned lead, is it really worth the much higher cost? The 12 b TSS shells I’ve seen are about $7/shell. I’m assuming the sub gauge shells are more. How much is a TSS for the .410? $10 or more per shell if bought as new? I’ve killed several turkeys with 12 ga 2 3/4” lead #4’s at yardage and it folded them up dead as dead can be. They cost about $.75 cent/shell. Why go to a $10/shot shell?? If I were a billionaire, I’d still know the value of a dollar. There’s plenty of light weight 12b shotguns out there. Why go to a .410???? Bragging rights, is that it? This push to kill turkeys with sub gauge guns makes almost no sense to me.

Buzz,
Dave Owens, a young man in his mid-30s from Acworth, Georgia, was the National Champion Turkey Caller in 2018. He is one of a handful that has killed turkeys in 49 states, mostly on public land, using a 20 gauge and handloaded TSS shot, size dependent on the law of the state he hunted. He doesn't use a guide and sleeps in his Tundra or rental SUV on his trips. He video documented all of his hunts, successful and unsuccessful, last year on YouTube in the Pinhoti Project. He is able to take three months off a year and hunt almost everyday, weather permitting. He prefers TSS #9.
No question Frank makes a fine call and knows how to use it. That doesn't make him nor Dave Owens the final arbiter of what gun or shot choice other experienced folks make. Several of us here in the Deep South have been around the block in the turkey hunting woods for close to a half century, some more, and we use what works for us. Frank's treatment of others overshadows his turkey call making skills. Scratch around and you'll see what others have experienced and say about that. There is no "magic" turkey call. Calling is just one tool in a turkey hunter's kit. It is also the most overrated. Good woodsmanship, and knowing where to sit and when to call and not call, frequency of calling (number of times, not Hz) and average calling ability, kill more turkeys than mediocre woodsmanship, poor set-up, and the Luciano Pavorotti of turkey calling doing the calling too much at the wrong time and too loud. The best caller, even Frank Cox, can't make a turkey come to where he doesn't want to go. As for not knowing Frank Cox, most here can only "know" him by what he writes and how he treats them and others here. "Abrasive" (your word) is an understatement. His propensity to insult crosses all topics and not just matters turkey. Frank can be polite, engaging, even knowledgeable, but then it's just a matter of time before he'll go off the rails into his insult mode of just being Frank with his Book of Grade School Insults. I'd be surprised to learn that he is allowed to participate on other boards.

I had the privilege of knowing the late Neil Cost who most recognize as the most influential and finest box call maker of all time, at least in the last 50 years. I spent time with him showing him around my home woods in 1993. The South Carolina legislature recognized his status as a callmaker and he received a Folk Art Heritage Award from the state. His style of box call has been copied by many of the top call makers today who openly credit his influence. I bought my first box from him in 1977 and bought over a dozen from him over the years for myself and hunting buddies. He made one for my son and wouldn't take a penny from me. Neil was a twice wounded and decorated army combat medic in WWII and Korea. He died in 2002. Neil mentored Steve Mann and Lamar Williams two box call makers whose calls are in high demand with waiting lists measured in years, not months. Neil openly shared his call making secrets in books and videos. His calls have sold for thousands of dollars. A posthumous book featuring photos of his calls and his story, Neil Cost Magic with Wood, sells on the collectors' market for $2500-3500 last time I looked on Amazon and Ebay. This is the Golden Age of turkey callmakers. There are many skilled and talented call makers today, equal to or better than Frank, that don't feel the need to insult or ridicule others in order to make them feel good about themselves or sell turkey calls.
If you haven't already gotten one of Frank's calls, you should. You'll be high on his list. Gil

Gil, I’m only a hack turkey hunter, I must admit. Rather, I’m a quail and Grouse hunter. I’ve harvested a few turkeys several years ago, but really I don’t care even if I go again. So, no need for a call or to be on Frank’s list. and I am on no such list. Thanks for the kudos, though. It is nice to know that if I needed a call, I’d be up on Frank’s list. Anyway, I would like to go turkey hunting some day with a dog to see how that’s done, but other than that, I have little interest. Still, I can’t understand the push for subgauge guns and the expensive TSS to harvest turkeys when much cheaper #4 lead shot and a light weight 12 gauge works just fine. Just my humble opinion. Thanks for listening and rendering your opinion.

GLS you sure you're not some old wash women in waiting....

.410 shells are the cheapest of the TSS shells out there. About $5 per shell. The cost of the raw material (and certainly greed) is why they cost so much. They do however perform and shoot tight patterns. Probably too tight for most folks.

I grew up shooting number 4 lead shells 2 3/4". Killed quite a few turkeys. Reality is killing a turkey really means hitting them in the head with the shot. That's why one of the bigger performing shells for a few years were Federal 3" shells loaded with number 7.5 Lead. Folks called them in close and then shot them in the head. The second shot most folks used was a number 4 lead, because if you missed them and they were running away, the number 4 would knock them down with a body shot.

I shot 4 lead for years until Hevi-shot came out. Then I shot 3 or 3.5" hevi-shot normally in size 5 or perhaps 6 and crushed them. However I was lugging a Benelli SBE with scope that was pushing 9 lbs (steadygrip model).

Shot my last turkey 4 years ago with that set up. My buddy had the exact same gun and he had switched to a 20 gauge using 3" 1 1/4 oz number 6 hevi-shot. He was killing turkeys just as dead as me and he had it dialed in where he was getting about 120 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards. He never lost a bird he shot.

After watching his success I switched to the same setup (20 gauge) with number 6 hevi-shot (the Remington Load). Finally a few years later and the number 7 hevi-shot came out that hit like lead 5's and I made the switch. Did the penetration test with 1/4" plywood and the lead 5's didn't penetrate and the 7 hevi-shot did. Turkey's head isn't harder then plywood so I made the switch.

I haven't gone to the TSS and don't believe I ever will. I don't believe I will shoot anything smaller then Hevi or Heavyweight 7's. Penetration and lots of pellets. What many folks don't know is the Federal's are 20 gauge's loaded with 1 1/2 oz of shot. Hell, that's a 2 3/4" mag turkey load (just like what I shot 25 year ago). The big difference IMO is these 20 gauge turkey's loads with the right choke almost shoot like a rifle. I have zero problem with putting 150 pellets of number 7's into that 10" circle at 40 yards and I'm carrying a gun that weighs about 6.5 lbs.

Not sure why anyone feels the need to carry a 12 gauge anymore, but some do. Some are shooting 3.5" 12 gauges with number 9 TSS and that is probably pushing about 900 pellets downrange. Just don't see the need. How dead does a turkey have to be.

Agree with the last poster about woodsmanship. I have killed a quite a few turkey's over the years. My calling is average, but you just need to be where they wanna go for the most part and you will do ok. Scouting is a big deal, followed by patience and yes a gun that will do the job when its time to drop the hammer.

PS. I saw where folks using the little .410 are getting 150 hits in a 10" circle at 40 yards when they are dialed in. That will indeed kill any turkey on the planet. I have no desire to go that route, but long as its ethical why not. Whatever floats your boat.

PS. If folks want to complain about anything in the turkey world, look up some video's on Reaping. Done with both a shotgun and a bow. Should be 100 percent outlawed IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFZA1wD2kU

Double PS. One of the 3 I took last year with my 20 gauge.

Just a comment from an unbiased reader .............. I don't see anyone on this forum "pushing" anybody else to use TSS or subguage guns for turkey hunting. What I see is people who favor 12 gauge guns and lead shot putting down those who want to use a lightweight gun and an alternate load that apparently kills well within 30 yards, and beyond. It's the big gun guys who appear to be defensive, not the .410 TSS users.

I've not seen a single one here, who badmouths the TSS loads, that has admitted to having tried them and determined they are inadequate.

SRH

I shot these today it was a little windy and I shot these targets standing off a shooting stick.

It's a lowly Remington Wingmaster Magnum. Pretty light weigh gun even an old wAsh women should be able to tote one of these...

It's a left hand gun with a 26" Remchoke barrel with a Patternmaster Code Black Goose tube about a .710 constriction....3" Winchester Longbeard 1&3/4 oz of #4 shot $19 for 10 shells....laser range 40, 30 and 20 yards...(left to right)...I know it's probably not enough pellets to suit you fAiry dust boys but plenty good enough to kill a bird as dumb as a turkey....and I shouldn't be picking a lot of dust sized pellets out of my meat.

I noticed the same thing. And all I've shot so far is lead.

but I'll shoot TSS or heavy shot this year just to irritate frank

Stan give us a break nothing you ever post is unbiased.

Buzz, if I were shooting a flat of turkey loads a season, cost would be a factor. However, a three bird limit in Georgia is 3 shells. Shell costs to a turkey hunter is way down the list in expense. I can load 39 13/16 or 36 7/8 oz. .410 shells or 20 1 5/8 oz. 20 ga. shells with two pounds of TSS. My last purchase delivered was $116 for two pounds.
Around here, there has been a shift from 12 gauge by many knowledgeable hunters because of TSS and other tungsten based loads. Many go to 20 gauge or smaller. If someone can carry and shoot a 20 gauge weighing 5.5 lbs or a .410 weighing 3 lbs., 4 oz. and it is just as effective as a 12 gauge weighing 8-9 lbs shooting our granddad's lead shells at 40 yards, the move to subgauge is more understandable. I stopped carrying my SBE over 9 seasons ago and traded it away and gave a young friend my 835. Gil

You want a trophy...pm me your address

I'll engrave it for you.

"Doublegun wAsh women of the year...and he knew Neil Cost who made box calls and hunted with pot calls".

Everyone I know who is still shooting lead is shooting Winchester LB. They are all using 20 gauges and using either Indian Creek, Pure Gold, Sumtoy or Jebs chokes. Some are using 5's and some are using 6's. They are getting amazing patterns at 40 yards.

Did you not see the title of the thread or watch the video Stan? The video guy states he likes the .410 and TSS for the ‘challenge’. Be real man. You and BrentD deserve one another, birds of the same feather.

Tut I'm not shooting a turkey choke...I could be but I don't see a need in it.

I stopped chasing the elusive "10" circle" several years back...how many pellets do you think it takes to kill a turkey ?

Tut I talk turkey with people all over the country most are scared to tell about their bad experiences with small shot on the internet for fear of ridicule and attack...no joke.

Frank, you are too funny. You remind me of my 4 year-old grandson when he gets cranky.

And you remind of the old wAsh women gossip.


yaba yaba yaba...

You're getting as dense a your mentOr, buzz. Nothing in the title of this thread, nor the video, pushes anybody else to use it. That is what I said. Both of them are commenting on what they like, not what you should use, bUzz. Talking about density .............

SRH

Another wAsh women looking for a trophy.

A 32" barreled heavy proofed 12 gauge for a big tuff pigeon and a pOp gun for a turkey....did someone say density.

Go figure.

This is too funny. He doesn't know the difference between shooting at a flying bird and one standing on the ground, stationary.

Crack another one, Coxey. You da' man.

Rotflmao...
JR

.....And, you always seem to enjoy twisting and manipulating words around to suit your needs, SRH. Of course it’s a push. You don’t think Henry wants to sell more of their single shot pop guns, or are they just making pop guns out of the goodness of their hearts for the general public that want to shoot a turkey with the .410? And, the ammunition companies........They don’t want to make any money either, eh? They are just producing these $10 apiece shells out of the goodness of their hearts for the sportsman who wants to pop a turkey with a little pea shooter utilizing TSS. Nah, there’s no push, neither Henry nor the ammo companies are marketing their wares, or are they?? The video was produced by “Henry TV”. The commentator was wearing a shirt with the word “Henry” embossed on the front of it. That’s marketing Stan, and if they are marketing and advertising, there’s a push, as simple and dense as that.

If you feel "pushed" by a guy in a video showing patterns and saying "I'm not trying get you guys to change your mind about whether or not you like a .410, or whether it is ethical for turkeys. I'll let you make your mind up after you see these targets"", or any company advertising their wares, you must be pretty insecure. I don't feel pushed at all ............ by the video, by anyone on this forum who wants to use TSS, or .410s, or anything else they favor, for heaven's sake. That's a simple, laid back advertising video. Pushed? Nah.

Have a great Friday, buzz. Try not to let that "pushy" advertising get to you so bad.

Best to you, SRH

“You must be pretty insecure”.....nah, I’m not insecure, Stan. I’m just realistic and read it as I see it. Oddly, you can’t see they are marketing and advertising their wares. I’m not going to say that you are, or call you insecure, Stan, like you name called me. I think in this case, naive would be a better description since it appears you don’t have an understanding of business or marketing, at least in this instance. BTW, when is your single shot arriving? .....since you took in all the hype...hook, line and sinker, I’m figuring you got one coming too, or have at least thought about it. ;-)

I'm pretty seriously thinking about getting one of the .410 lever actions Henry is making now. Not to hunt turkeys with. Just to screw around. I think it would be a hoot to shoot the wobble trap doubles at my club. The gun would have no real practical application for me. But since when does that matter? I handled one at my local Scheels. They're pretty nice.

Yup.

Arguments over turkey ammo are nothing new. Tom Kelly's 1973 classic, The Tenth Legion, acknowledges the squabbles and in order to avoid arguing when asked what he shot answered: "4's or 6's depending on what was on the hardware store shelf when I bought shells."
Here are three guns that I've used to hunt turkeys. The top, is an Ithaca NID 10 ga. 3.5" chambered made in 1939. It was a run of 877 shotguns mostly made in 10 ga. but with a few 12 ga. magnums as well. Previously shooting an Ithaca M37 chambered for 2.75" 12 ga. which was rechoked by Stan Baker, I bought the NID about 40 years ago from Thad Scott for $800-850. I later sold it to a friend and immediately regretted doing so and tried buying it back. He later relented and 5 years ago I traded him my SBE with a Trijicon reflex. The heaviest load I shot out of it was 2.5 oz. of #3 magnum shot (St. Louie Threes) handloaded as a spreader load which shot 55% in a 30" circle at 40 yards. The left barrel was 95% with large shot at the same distance. It weighs 11 lbs., 1 oz. unloaded. My buddy handloaded up to 3 oz. of #4's for turkeys. The 20 ga. is a Baikal MP18 weighing 5 lbs., 7 oz. rigged and I shoot 1 5/8 of TSS 9's out of it.
Frank's Favorite is the Yildiz .410 weighing 3 lbs., 4 oz. rigged. I shoot 9's or 9.5's out of it. 159 in the 10" circle at 40 yards on which the red dot is centered. Since having the .410 modified by Sumtoy in 2012, he's modified over 200 for folks throughout the country. I've had intervening 12 gauges and 20's since I first bought the 10 ga. but I haven't enjoyed any guns as much as the bottom 2 for the purpose intended. To each his own.

A couple of things I found interesting in the video was the energy delivered by the TSS 9's to cause the amount of wood splinters flying from the back of the wood pallet when they strike the target, and the Flite Control wad's rotation as it follows impact. Graphic proof of how hard the stuff hits.

I'm staying with the TSS 7's in my 20 ga. And I think Federal is really onto something with their Flite Control wads...
JR

Buzz you might as well be talking to a tree when the wAsh sistas show up.

Looks like you guys must have indeed found the better mouse trap.

Federal wishes...

The Flite Controls I shot tended to steer the load occasionally.

It's pretty funny watchin' you talk to yourself, frank.

Wasn't my kind of read...funny how in his old age he gave into da'coys.

I used to have one of the original Marlin 411 lever actions that were a stock holder promotion. Hitting anything flying with it was a challenge. I could have probably killed a turkey with it since they don't require much of a lead.

Gil, what have you done to Mark Larson's turkey painting on the Baikal; it was so alive looking a few years ago. Now it looks like you've been rubbing it down with dirt...Geo

All this talk of single shots. I'm loading up on them while the getting is good. My guess is that when they start picking up all our guns, the last thing legal is going to be single shots. The price will skyrocket...Geo

Such beAuty...

Check out a mans gun...

Smart guy!

I wouldn't mind having a nice single shot for that purpose. The only one I have is a junk Stevens or Savage that isn't even safe at any speed.

A good vintage gun would be pretty cool actually.

What are you doing with? Must have stolen it.

I have a thing for vintage singles. I have a couple sitting in the rack needing minor restoration. I hope to get to them this spring. I always end up selling them, but I keep buying them too.

SKB - start a thread for vintage singles and post a few pictures. I'd like to see them. I know there are nice ones out there, but I only see the cheapest most abused ones at gun shows or used gun racks (except for high-end trap guns that are not personally interesting).

No one wants to talk about pellet weights...

I knew Neil Cost and you are no Neil Cost.
Neil gave me a small slate, not in a pot, but more of a rounded triangle unmounted piece of slate that he anchored into a hip bone with the slate cupped in his hand. The striker was a corncob with the wingbone of a snow goose. It was a soft call. Most folks I know hunt with more than one type of call. Don't you?

I knew him too.

I've never been in any competition with his calls....it would be like comparing my Purdey to his Yildiz

jOe, It’s because they are on a quest for a better mouse trap. No need for specifics.

If a lighter shot pellet penetrates just as deep into the central nervous system in a turkey's neck, weight is irrelevant, if sufficiently heavy enough (and dense enough) to fully penetrate bone and nerve tissue with sufficient energy to throw the switch. Lead 6's, 7.5's kill turkeys just as dead as lead 2's or 4's and so does TSS shot in various sizes AND weights. Good news. Federal has discovered a material denser than depleted uranium or tungsten. Depleted Frankcranium (its normal state). Once Ballistic Engineers learn how to handle it without a serious drop in IQ, it'll be on the market. You better get more lost if that is possible.

Is that not enough pellets to satisfy your desires ?

That’s what Jag thought about his beanie baby collection. Last I heard he’s a greeter at Wally World in Gary, Indiana.

This thread is beginning to sound like the redneck version of 8 Mile.


___________________________
He don’t wanna battle, he’s shook
‘Cause ain’t no such things as half-way crooks. Eminem
https://youtu.be/nUEC2BrHm74

How can you be so sure my love....

Back when I worried about how many pellets were in 10 inch circle I shot turkeys with a mixed load of 4x5x7 hevi shot and saw lots of small shot between the hide and meat.

Kinda of a my shot is smaller than your shot version....

Here you go frank - your next turkey gun

[img]https://www.proxibid.com/Vintage-Marlin-Stock-Option-Lever-Action-410-ga/lotInformation/46676893[/img]

jOe, seriously, why do you care about what others are hunting with?

I'm perfectly prepared to accept you are a hell of a call maker and most likely a far better turkey hunter and caller than I will ever be. So I'm not calling into question your skill or resume. I simply wonder why this particular subject gets you so wound up. It's like Pavlov's dogs. Ring the bell of TSS and watch jOe come running.

I mean, maybe I'm missing something but it's like someone who hunts with setters being hell bent on telling everyone who hunts with pointers they are doing it wrong. (They are but that's another issue! Hahaha!)

I don't care...they care.

I shot the 4x5x7 Hevi shot loads for a few years. I thought performance wise they were bull...a pellet as small as a #7 cant be depended on to take up any slack when it comes to killing a bird as big and tuff as a turkey.

Just talk about facts and they attack.

Little pellets...little man syndrome.

Really? You don't care?

Why then did you respond to John's posted video the way you did? And why did you have Dave delete some of those very early posts in this thread? That's curious behavior from someone who claims not to care and calls others "whiners".

I started reading this thread at 4 am yesterday morning. So I've seen and read all the posts. Pavlov rang the bell and you came running. So instead of dodging my question, why not answer it truthfully. You too, Buzz. Why the need to crap on others for the way they legally hunt?

By the way Buzz, please note I have been respectful and straightforward with jOe here so far. I've dealt in facts and posed reasonable questions.

Edit to add: I note that you added to your post since I read it and quoted you. They didn't come running and attack you....you attacked them. You reject their reasoning out of hand with no first hand experience, by your own admission. They have all started with big guns and loads of lead and have opted for switching and given detailed explanations as to why.

What's the problem?

Sometimes I wonder if I ever left the seventh grade.

You did, but frank keeps dragging you and the rest of us back there.

CB: Frankly, I could care less what they hunt with. My only questions were why TSS when lead is so effective and cheap? , why use a .410, is it for bragging rights (I still think likely so, even if only to brag to one’s self, the exception being a young child or girl)?, and it does appear there is a push by the ammo and firearms companies to sell these products. I do know lead #4’s are extremely effective on turkey and seem sufficient. I really do believe all this new stuff is only a quest for a better or different mouse trap. But, no I don’t care what other people legally hunt with. Besides, if there was total agreement on these issues, then we would have nothing to discuss....no intercourse whatsoever, and how BORING would that be. Also, since I personally know jOe, I see him in a different light than many of you. Here, he is a misunderstood individual imho. I know him as a genuine and generous person. Many of you would too if you had the chance to meet in person. With that in mind, and as an expert with the turkey hunting, I believe his opinion on this issue matters.

Sometimes I wish I never left the seventh grade.


__________________________
Sugar, Sugar
https://youtu.be/arpidGq8SlA

frank, you haven't been paying attention, if you have to ask those questions. They have been answered many times.

And, of course, you see yourself in a different light. You just need to spend more time looking in the mirror. 'Cuz you ain't pretty. Not here, not anywhere on the internet that you set down and start posting.

And yes, you obviously care a lot about what other people hunt with. Your second and third sentences are questions to exactly that effect. You contradict yourself in a single paragraph.

And on the topic of self-contradictions, you are now claiming "as an expert with the turkey hunting, blah blah blah..." when you had just recently in this thread stated you were NOT an expert on turkeys, but only experty in quails and grouses. Please make up your mind. You are big on telling other people about their expertness. Please make up your mind on your own expertness. Then, let us all know once and for all.

Thank you for your time in this matter. It matters immensely.

[/sarcasm font off]

I’ve told you before, I’m not Frank. Frankly BrentD, I don’t give a hoot what a socialist college professor ever has to say. Your opinion is nothing. But, it’s obvious you are trolling here. Your tag line about keeping your donation in your pocket tells it all. Socialists believe in free entitlement for all, and that’s BrentD.

frank, you ain't foolin' no one.

You don't give a hoot about a lot of things - then suddenly you do and you get all worked up about it.

Classic frank behavior every time. You definitely give a hoot about what I have to say. I've started to notice every time. Just like this time.

Frank,
You don't seem to understand what I've written about lead Longbeard loads and your choice of them more than once. I have said they look great and more power to you using them. It's your choice. I don't want to shoot a 12 gauge when I can carry, shoot and kill birds with guns that are far lighter and simpler with TSS. It's my choice, not yours. I don't care if you kill turkeys with claw or ball peen hammers, letter openers, atlatl darts, Super Soakers or drop dead stares. Why do you care what guns and loads others shoot? I am familiar with the old Nitro Loads having an abundance of sub 9 sized pellets. I shot the same load in my SBE. I later switched over to the #7 Federal Heavyweights. The Nitro shot was barely heavier than lead, some tests showed it was less dense and lighter than lead. It isn't and wasn't the same as Tungsten Super Shot. No one is saying you have to shoot TSS. Shoot all the Winchester Longbeards you want. Why are you so worried about other folks' teeth? Worry about your own. We can revisit this same time next year. As always...

Buzz, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I hunt turkey somewhat haphazardly and this year it will be with a vintage Fox A grade 12 gauge, as it has for the last 10 years or so. Next year I hope to be able to use my restored Charles Daly 12 ga. So I will not be going the TSS/lightweight gun route. I can't imagine a day when I won't be using 2 3/4" lead loads out of a vintage 12 ga.

And you may have personally met jOe and I won't argue at all as to what that experience is like. I'm glad to hear it may be better than meeting him on line here. Because, if he is misunderstood, it is through no one's fault but his own. If he has a reputation for a certain kind of behavior and attitude, it comes as a result of 13,000 of his own posts on this forum alone.

Look at every thread on TSS that I can recall. The crap doesn't start with someone else disparaging jOe's choices. It starts with jOe disparaging everyone who uses TSS. And in this thread, when I ask him why, he says he doesn't....that he's the one who gets attacked. Yet the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. He calls others whiners and yet whines to Dave to have his own, incriminating posts deleted.

It would be so much more enjoyable to meet the genuine and generous person you have met.

Years ago, he led the campaign against decoys at the Alabama state level and last year or two ago showed up in a video with two guys standing on a road holding up a fan with birds running down the road to him which were shot. The Tenth Legion is still the best book written on not how to hunt turkeys, but why we do it. Alabama's answer to Jose Ortega y Gasset.

Brent I have spoken with people who have spoken to and worked on Buzz's guns. I have traded emails with him in the distant past. Buzz is a different person than jOe. Suggesting otherwise on here is simply another way to look silly.

Geo,
Mark did the painting on the bottom gun which is the Yildiz. It's just the light in the photo making you think its changed as the painting is as crisp as it was when I got it back from him. Here is my first Baikal 20 that I gave to Jerry when he retired a few years ago. I rattle can camo'd it and stenciled the turkeys on it. Mark didn't do this one. Can you tell? Jerry won't take love nor money for it and has killed a pile of turkeys with it replacing his Mag 10 and 3" Ithaca M37 12 as his main gun.

Different strokes for different folks...

Some people like cheap goofy looking crap...not eYe.

Canvasback if it's a 2&3/4" gun try some Winchester Roosters they have the same shot lock technology as the Longbeards. They come 15 to a box for about 25 bucks.

I'll give it a try jOe.

jOe has apparently never shot a turkey with TSS, so how could he possibly have an opinion that matters? And anyone can tell from his posts here that physics is not his strong suit. And it doesn't appear that anyone on this forum except you is paying any attention to him.

He once wounded a turkey with hevishot, but he can't grasp that TSS is not at all the same thing. Oh well, shoot whatever you want.

Here a cc, there a cc, everywhere a cc...

Cc has nothing to do with weight mr.Physics.

Let me check.

Hmm there's four people on this forum shooting fAiry dust sized TSS for turkeys...

Their add should read

"TSS the shot for dummies".

I asked for nothing.

Fact is I sent Dave a pm asking him if he deleted the threads.
He said he did because he thought I was getting pretty agressive with a bunch of the other kids.

I understood his point of view because eYe know the TSS bOys are very sensitive about their little shot'shiz...

If by CC you mean carbon copy, you are correct. If you mean cubic centimeters, you are wrong. g/cc (density) of the pellets was important in Miller's ballistic calculations in another thread throwing out the part of the equation that the shot in comparison were all spherical. I'm impressed that you can count to 4 something I held in doubt, but am not surprised you forgot about both pellet density ( weight divided by space occupied ) and the weight of the pellet (and velocity) having a bearing on ballistics and penetration into a mass. Miller opined that TSS 18 g/cc was 65% denser than lead. And that Mr. Wizard is physics...

So,...jOe...do you belong to the physics club?


__________________________
7th grade?
https://youtu.be/rnbDA4wKrg0
Principal Weber at :48

Not the Physic's club of Hillbilly idiOts

On average turkey hunters are the dumbest bunch of *** ** * ******* I've ever came across bar none.

As much as Miller wanted to agree with you that's not how I read what he said...

You obviously never played beer league hockey.


_________________________
Danault scores on Price... lol!
https://youtu.be/x3X8vJs3TJs

There are so many errors in your post I don't know why I'm bothering to reply, but just to set the record straight .......................

1 - You either can't read or you can't comprehend what you do. You said I can't see they are marketing and advertising their wares. In my previous post I had just said, "If you feel "pushed" by a guy in a video showing patterns and saying "I'm not trying get you guys to change your mind about whether or not you like a .410, or whether it is ethical for turkeys. I'll let you make your mind up after you see these targets"", or any company advertising their wares".

2 - You said "BTW, when is your single shot arriving? .....since you took in all the hype...hook, line and sinker, I’m figuring you got one coming too, or have at least thought about it. ;-)". Where the heck did that come from? Show me one post where I said or even insinuated that I use, or want to use, TSS for turkeys. I am not even a serious turkey hunter, which is borne out by my original statement that I was unbiased in this debate. I own two single shot shotguns, both Iver Johnson Special Trap guns, which are 12 ga. guns. Your assumption that I took in all the hype is a fabrication of a contorted way of thinking. Show me where you read anything I said that reasonably leads to that assumption. You're in a dream world, buzz. Your friendship with Frank has blinded you to the possibility that he can be wrong about something concerning turkeys. You've drunk the kOolaid, man.

SRH

I guess the devil made you type like me....seems yOu drank a little jOe kOolaid Stanley.

I'm betting Buzz just figured you might be getting one to hunt Toad'e frOgs with ?

Just saying

Given that you have to numbered in that bunch, you alone could being down the average intelligence quotient of a stadium full of Nobelists and National Academy members to the level of a hillbilly idiot. Well, actually you would bring it down far below that. FAR below.

Frank you are supposed to put on your "buzz" persona before you answer that post...

And that's the thanks I get for the 50 cent donation eye made I in your name...gezz

What say Stanley...

Aha, Yeah jOe. I can’t even respond to Stan and BrentD ‘s nonsensical drivel anymore. Like I said, they deserve one another. Birds of the same feather....

I knew you couldn't provide any evidence anyway, buzz. You just proved it by hiding behind your troll's skirts.

G'day.

Bible thumpers sure like to call people trolls...

frank/buzz, I'm the furthest thing from a bible thumper you have ever seen, and I'm calling you a troll.

No body was talking to you.

The trolls are the guys that don't turkey hunt like Stan that just posted on this thread to sing back up for one of their buds...that's the troll.

Whatever, Stan. Let’s see some more photos of you killing doves with your yildiz.410. That’s more amusing than this, and perhaps you can calm down. BrentD, however, he just doesent know when to stop. He likes to play Stan’s sitting duck.

Stan is trolling for evidence....

Sadly frank/buzz, you are the lucky recipient of my attentions anyway. You are a troll, here and every other forum on the internet you frequent. You leave a trail of threads like this one on ever forum you attend. And you are universally despised for it as well.

Like I said, poor old BrentD, the professor....”those who can, do....but, those who can’t, teach”.....he just likes to play Stan’s sitting duck.

BrentD the forum free loader I don't frequent other message boards and have not in years...but I do donate to support this one unlike you.

So wrong again Freddy...