Many of you remember Diggory Haddoke (aka smallbore). I ran across his most recent blog post which contains some interesting revelations on the state of the British gun market. I particularly enjoyed the advice Of how to justify the purchase of a brand new Purdey, Shoot it for 10 years, consign it back to Purdeys, And pocket £2000. I think I’ll try this one with my wife!

Vintage Guns blog 2019

I'd insist on more than 2000 pounds for my wife.

Wonder if new prices will go up 113% again over the next decade? From 66K pounds to 141,600 pounds. I just can’t see much of a market for 250,000 + pound doubles. As noted in the article there seems to be an increasing flow of quality guns hitting the market. I think the dumping of well maintained guns will moderate prices as our generation ceases hunting and decides to sell now while prices are good.

I suspect like here, a few collections are being broken up as collectors age or pass on. Follow on generations seem to have little interest is our archaic interest and are happy to sell for whatever cash they can get. Sad really as some really outstanding collections are being broken up. In my case I have given each of my kids a dozen or so guns already and don’t expect them to want more than one or two more of what I have now after I’m dead. So what’s left will be sold off for what the market will bear. As I will ge dead it won’t matter to me anymore.

How many mint Purdeys do you have left? I am 73 years old but I am still interested in mint Purdeys at closeout prices.

Eightbore I can get you one for 141,600 pounds. There is one dealer who has factory mint guns in everything he sells. I like your taste in Brownings. I like the single double O/U, sadly most have been converted into straight double trigger guns by now.

I’ve never been that in love with Purdey. Now a nice Grant side lever or round action Scottish double might be more interesting. I bid on a 16 skeleton frame, round action at Holts about a year ago. Dropped out at when it hit $20K with the auction house vig. It ended up going for 20K pounds plus Vat and vig. Nearly 30K£ total. One of three made. I probably would have sold every other double I had if I owned it.

I wonder what the value of a Purdey would be if it didn’t have the Purdey name on it? How well would it stand on the craftsmanship invested in it? I suspect most potential buyers have no idea how to judge a guns quality but buy a name only.

Diggory is great at creating demand for British guns. He revived the British boxlock 10 years ago with his two books. I’m surprised there are any boxlock guns remaining in GB after George Lander bought them all. Has he taken a position with Purdeys now?

A Kentucky gent using a Sicilian term for "interest charged" Vigorish- or Vig-- a loan shark will charge a "heavy vig" usually 40% and up-- But what do auction houses charge as a "buyer's premium"-- over and above what % of the "hammer down price"? Just wondering, I have never bought or sold guns through an auction house--RWTF

Morphy (James Julia) 20%
Rock Island 15%
English auction houses from 20% to 24%

RWTF, did it bother you to call it a vig? Sorry. Holt's charges 25% up to the first 100K pounds and then 20% above that. I for certain will never each the 20% reduced rate. VAT is payable at the applicable rate and is listed in the listing as to %. But exporting usually removes that but I don't know how much longer that may apply. Taxes seem to be ever increasing all over the World.

I grew up around people who lent money to others that charged 10% or more, a week. South Jersey and Philly people. Does not sound like much but it all adds up quickly. And you paid your debts to them. Period. People who 50 years later were willing a able to answer a few questions for me, because they had been friends back when I was a little boy and they respected my father. We never borrowed money from them but they did look after our trucks and drivers when they went to the Philly vegetable market and made sure they got unloaded and returned unharmed. That cost 200/week in the 60's.

The auction price is only a very small part of buying a gun at auction like Holt's. It pays to have the gun looked at in advance if possible. I often do not anymore. After paying for a dozens reports at 50-75 pounds each, for guns I did not win, I changed my strategy. I'll pay to have a gun looked at after I win and see what it needs. Shipping to get this done cost 40 pounds. It is a bit riskier but after not winning a number of items I figured if I only paid for it on guns I won, even a minor missed defect might cost less than endless reports for guns I never seemed to win. So if it need 500 pounds of work that was less than the ten plus reports I paid for on guns I never won. So guns under a thousand dollars I bid blind and those over that I pay for the report if I am worried. Repairs over there are much easier to arrange and cost a lot less than over here.

So the first cost is the bid price. Second is the Buyer premium which is 25%. VAT goes away for now. The export cartage which is a few hundred pounds, import fees is several hundred dollars, import duties for non antiques is to be paid, then shipping to your FFl and then his transfer fees. So that 1,000 bargain will end up costing you nearer $1,600-2,000 by the time you are done. Bunching them in batches does help a bit.

Not at all- whenever Mae and I are in FL--Venice-- we go out to eat frequently at area Italian restaurants-- My favorite is Benny's Ba-Da-Bing- on the Tamimiami (sic) Trail, the main drag going from Nakomis down to Ft. Meyers-and through the center of Venice and the Circus Bridge-- Benny and his family migrated down from Little Italy-- and I feel at home there- lotsa fotos of a former USMC Commandant on the walls- and Gino- the manager (and Benny's eldest son) and I are goombahs-- Now that I see you are from Philly and "Joisey"- I got it- Just didn't think of any major Italian area in KY--Love the culture--and the food-- So, goombah, no apology needed.. Holt's-- a Limey op.?? Wow-- I buy a Purdey hammergun, and pay an additional 25%, plus VAT (69?)-- and insured shipping- Mama Mia-- Not my style--

Most but not all of my 12 gauge L.C. Smiths I bought from Brad B- over the past 20 years-- Now-a-Days- I'm out of the market, but still like to stay up with current pricing-- RWTF

No VAT on guns being exported from the UK. You have to look at the whole picture. A client/friend had been looking for a nice sidelock for sometime and was not happy with any of the offers on the US retail market. He spent quite a bit of time looking and had a fair amount of frustration along the way. At the last Sept. Holt's auction I noticed what looked to be a high condition, cased Alex. Martin sidelock and the estimate was quite low. Diggory inspected the gun and a bid was placed toward the high end of the Estimate. My client/friend won the auction for less than his bid and when all was said and done he is now the proud owner of a superb British sidelock for under 5K, far less than US retail. There are deals over seas but one must be a shrewd shopper and be able to adapt to the ever changing market.

Steve

My friend just bought an "As New" Purdey 20 bore, two sets of barrels, made in the 90's for 45K at the Southern.
It is a fantastic gun and I felt it was a deal.

Assuming nothing wrong, that is spectacular depreciation!

I think he is missing a main point. Very, very few people can afford a $200,000 shotgun. I don’t care how wonderful it is, unless I win the lottery, I will never be able to purchase a new Purdey, Holland, Boss. However, I am thrilled the market is depressed for fine used doubles. While I will never be able to afford a new Holland, I can afford to buy a used one, especially if I buy at auction in the US. Even with the buyer’s premium, there are excellent deals to be had if one looks hard enough and has cash on hand. Why should I care about the growing gap between a new and used Boss? I don’t. If anything, I hope it widens and makes more used fine doubles available at the lowest price possible.