My son and I are are making the treck up to Fort Smith, Montana and the Crow Indian Reservation to fish the Bighorn. I had planned to pack a sidearm (for all the usual reasons) but wondered what the complications might be on the Rez. Anybody here familiar with the area?

Lloyd 3, I don't think you'll encounter any problems, but I have to wonder what all the usual reasons might be. Montana is not the frontier any more. Custer died a few miles from where you'll be but that was in 1876. Ask your guide.

I wouldn't know how things would be for your particular situation, but I'd go with the thought that everyone around will have a gun on themselves or in their vehicle. I haven't gone down to Ft. Smith, but I've actually done stop overs in Hardin. If it were my preference, I'd try to avoid late night hours off the beaten path, and I'd try to avoid big event dates such as pow wows. You folks will have a ton of fun.

Never know what you might stumble upon. Friend-O.


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Parts of the West still seem to be a bit wild. Nice to have the right tools along on a long trip. I know the Rez is dry and there won't likely be any late nights, still...

Any decent places to eat in Hardin?

The most important reason to pack a sidearm, is, because you want it there. Second most important reason, is because there is stuff that needs to be shot.

Mine is carried daily. The reservations are sovereign nations, and the rules for non band members are different here in MN. You will have to make an effort to find out the rules that tribe has in place, specific to non band members. Try to get it in writing from the law enforcement people in the particular reservation you are on, and do not assume a neighboring band has the same rules.

I avoid foreign countries as much as is humanly possible. I’m uninterested in learning or living by their laws. That includes Canada.

Good luck. Hope you are well, Lloyd.

Best,
Ted

Hi Ted! Hanging-in here. From my understanding, back in the 1980s ('81?) the Crow Nation took over that section of the river and stopped all activities by non-natives. The Feds, because of Yellowtail Dam (& Montana?) stepped in and carved out sections where the State fishing laws were the only ones that mattered. I'm not dead-set on having a weapon with me, but in the lonely places out here it's still good policy to have one available. It looks like I have some research to do.

I have been there many times.

You do know, that it’s the valley of the beautiful people. Right?
You’ll drive right past Orvis endorsed private compounds on the way to the three-mile landing launch.
It’s countercyclical to South America, so it’s not uncommon for Chileans and Argentinians to be fishing there because their seasons are closed where they live.

Fort Smith is a pretty small beat down town, from which I have a plethora of sordid memories. Just my kind of place.
It has a decent restaurant, primary industry there of course is a government check, or being a guide of some sort.

Met my first Flathead there.
Nymphing is the technique primarily used, but there are some guides that work the feeder creeks with dries.

Everything is about the flow.

Lloyd, I hope you'll post some photos and tell us about your trip.I'm thinking of going in Sept. It's been a while since I fished there, but I'd like to do it one more time.

Pictures would be good Lloyd, if you get the chance. Hey Bill, don't you have a good stretch of the Yellowstone that flows near your neck of the woods?

What "stuff" have you ran upon that "needs to be shot" ?

If yer scared just say yer scared.

Just saying

Lloyd: Ted's point about the sovereignty of the tribes is critical, and a major issue in AZ

Arizona has 21 Indian tribes, which hold about a quarter of the land in the state. The Navajo Nation makes it illegal to carry a deadly weapon including a gun.
The Tohono O’odham Nation prohibits the carry of a concealed weapon on a person or in a vehicle.

If traveling on a Federal or State highway, you are not technically on tribal land. Back roads are different.

I found a link to the Crow Reservation laws, but you'll have to navigate to Chapter 8; Weapons
https://narf.org/nill/codes/crow_montana/index.html

Don't take someone's word; do your homework before going.

The key word in concealed carry is 'concealed.'

I have no doubt, the only reason you are alive is because it is against the law to kill you.

The only things I am afraid of are needing my .357, and not having it, and anything that comes out of a liberals mouth.


Best,
Ted

Steve: some tribes prohibit simply possessing a firearm, in your vehicle, on tribal land. The casinos that ring Phoenix are all on tribal land, but an unloaded weapon in your car in the parking lot is considered in transit, as long as it stays in your car.

Sec. 6-130. Possession of Firearms or Explosive Weapons.
(e) Possession without a permit. Any person who shall possess within the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community any firearm or weapon for which a permit has not been issued shall be deemed guilty of an offense, unless such firearm or weapon is being transported through the community and is unloaded and not readily accessible.

The Navajo seem to go with the Federal safe-passage rule, which states that "persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container."

Found a site that stated San Carlos Apache, Tohono O'odham, and White Mountain Apache honor AZ concealed carry permits. I'd definitely confirm before doing so however.

Lloyd, If you seriously think you need to be armed in Montana in order to fish safely, stay where you are; hunker down. Keep your AR 15 at hand all the time. It doesn't make sense to pay big bucks to go somewhere you aren't comfortable. We get by on tourism, but we can manage without your particular contribution.

I'd never speak for Lloyd, but there was nothing about any needs. A little bit earlier in the thread you were welcoming. After you stew a bit this is appropriate? You go lecture your ranchers that they don't contribute.

Lloyd, the Liberal wacko rocky mtn bill might be more amenable to you toting a custom Mauser bolt action. As is typical of Liberals, if he doesn't approve of it, then it should be outlawed. Billy simply hates them AR-15's. It sounds like he doesn't approve of you having a handgun either.

But he's forgetting that the rate of aggravated assault in Montana is higher than the National average. The population density may be low out there in the boonies, but the population density was quite a bit lower back when Cain killed Abel. If you wish to protect yourself and your family from something that probably won't happen, that is none of Billy's damn business. So carry any legal firearm that you like and enjoy, and do all you can to keep Billy and other anti-gun Democrats from taking away your right to choose.

Join the NRA.... re-elect Donald Trump.... and never welcome anti-gunners and FUDD's into the fraternity of gun owners so they can stab us in the back.

Damn straight. And predatory animals. I’ve had to pepper spray both kinds of bears and I’m mindful of mountain lions. The overall risk of animal attack is extremely low but we, as sportsmen, engage in high risk activates like making gut piles and carrying fish and raw meat around. And we do these things often. I want a 460 Rowland.

The Big Horn valley is unlikely to have bears or lions. If you don't plan to get drunk at night and go on a ramapage, you won't need to be armed. Ask your guide.

What, Are you worried about being scalped?
It's a fishing trip for chrissakes.

Be more concerned about sun screen, and not leaving the Bolle's at the restaurant.

If you haven't figured out by now that it's a poor tourist town, populated by lifestyle choosers, you are missing what's what.

Leave the fire power home, and save yourself the grief.

Go and have Fun.

No one is after you.

I agree

But if by chance anyone asks you to call a coin flip, call heads.


__________________________
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Don’t stoke the paranoid’s,Chighur.
It’s a tourist town.

They’re going to ride from the lodge to the boat launch by the dam, float down the Yellowstone nymphing for rainbows and browns, and they’re going to take out at the 3 mile landing, where all the guys will be waiting with their float boat trailers.

There are no bears you’re more likely to run into an unconscious homeless person then you are any sort of predatory mammal.

I can’t guarantee, that a tourist who is carrying/brandishing a SideArm, for whatever his personal reasons are, that that might not affect the quality of their trip., Or the tenor of their interactions with the guides and locals.

I had no idea what I had started here. Jeeze! It's the Bighorn, actually, not the Yellowstone and we're planning on wade fishing (although a float trip isn't out of the question). I'm so used-to having something along on my various expeditions in Wyoming and Montana that it seemed quite normal to do so. The Rez is a very different animal, no question.

Sorry Lloyd,
Worrying about concealed or open carry on an Indian reservation is a very very minor detail in my life. I wouldn’t let it ruin a destination fishing trip with my son. I wouldn’t let it complicate a destination fishing trip with my son. I’m sorry if I said Yellowstone instead of Big Horn I should’ve said Yellowtail dam.

Lloyd, if you read any of the trout magazines, the trip you’re planning to take is carefully explained in a whole bunch of them there’s an article or two every year doing exactly what you’re about to do.

Because there are cattle ranches all along the river there, there is fencing from the Highwater mark all along the river, to keep the cattle from breaking down the river banks. I think there’s some law in Montana that says Everybody is allowed to wade the river outside the fencing.
There are signs all about it along the river.
I stayed at the Cottonwood camp, did the float, hunted Huns on the neighboring farms, hooked up with the guy from the Cottonwood camp, and shot geese in some pasture around there somewhere, and then hunted ducks down on the islands at the 3 mile landing.
No firearms issues.

Everybody in the whole town was nice and friendly. But, the people that support the tourists were poor. There was no grocery store, and people placed their order for a delivery once or twice a week, where they all picked up their stuff by the laundromat.
The people jetting into the Orvis endorsed lodges and what not, weren’t. That’s just life in the outdoors on a big river ie lifestyle choice.
It was definitely worth it being a homeless outdoor guy, camping with all of the other transients down by the river.
You’re going to have a great trip, don’t make it needlessly complicated.

If you’ve looked at this trip in any of the magazines, you know that it’s all about the flow. It’s beautiful open country.

There are many reasons people come from all over the world to fish there.

So, if there are no bears, and there are no war parties of Indians looking for scalps, there's no reason to carry?

Yeah, right.

SRH

I’m not for one second thinking to over worry about the wildlife, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to catch a glimpse of bear or mountain lion. The mountain lions definitely range down into the plains. Heck, a young grizzly was spotted just outside of Great Falls last summer. The critters will be around, but in an interesting way. Keep your eyes peeled for deer in the road, I’ve had the pleasure of hitting three MT white tails, but they’re probably like that here and there n CO.

The only thing I don’t quite understand is CZ’s consistent references to the riff raff that someone might run into. Anyway, absolutely enjoy the fishing.

Presuming, because I'm not sure after all that's been posted here, that Montana is not yet a gun free zone, and carry is permitted except for the reservation maybe, and the courthouse, I would not be deterred from carrying a firearm there if it is allowed by state law. I don't care about need. I'd just stay off the reservation and out of the courthouse..Geo

Look up Bob "Cookie' Krumm at Ft. Smith. I did several "cast and blast" trips with him back in the late 1980's-- The Bighorn had just been opened up to "White Man's sporting trips" and the area Indians, drunk and unemployed, resented all that $ coming in and they not getting any of it-

In Oct 1986- while floating the river for the ducks and pheasants on the many small islands (they pheasants flew over from the private ranch holdings and sought refuge on the islands. We saw many Indians up on the high ridges, watching us-- As we carried 12 gauge shotguns, we did not carry sidearms- either open carry or concealed. In July 1990 Mae and I took our daughters out West, and visited Yellowstone National Park- no problems, great fly fishing, and I felt no need to carry a sidearm.

Fast forward to today's world-- drugs, piss-headed drop outs looking to rip the honest world off- I would be carrying my Kimber Para-Carry .45 3.5" arrel "locked, cocked and ready to rock"-- Yellowstone has more dangers that bears and bisons- wander off the well traveled paths at your own risk- RWTF

Some of you guys poo-poo the need to carry when in various places in the west. There are valid reasons to carry everywhere you go. We camped in places in northern California and took walks around the perimeter of the large, well established RV park. Mounted on the fences were several signs about the mountain lions in the area. That got my attn.

When we camped at a new and barely established KOA in Monument Valley, we were very surprised to see dogs, many dogs, in groups, some singularly, invade the campground each night in search of hand outs. I saw great dane mix curs invade people's personal space around campfires. At one point I had pistol in hand...

Yep, I carry, usually concealed so that only the wife knows about it....

Mergus

Sad, but true. There are good reasons to have a firearm available. Unfortunately in today’s world we have to deal with a patch work of both reasonable to ludicrous rules.

Don’t carry often, but I am glad I can in Kansas.

Never occurred to me what the rules are for the reservations near me

Hello Lloyd: the last time I fished the Bighorn a sidearm would have been useful only to blast a few holes in the fish that wouldn't take my perfectly presented nymph (hour after hour). It is an SOB to fish unless you have perfect technique with size 24 micro-scuds. Tribal members are the least of your worries, as few of them really envy a #5 split bamboo rod or fresh waders (they tend to avoid water). Occasionally Dick Cheney will still float the river, usually with a body-double in the dory ahead of him. You might have your sidearm handy then if you want to defend him, or die under a light trigger from his lifetime secret service detail. Take 'yer pick.

Just got home today after my little trout safari to Montana and Wyoming. The Blackfoot Indian reservation looked about like what I expected (all reservations seem to have alot in common). The Bighorn River was beautiful but fairly unproductive. It was a little high but... should have been far-more productive. Not sure what has been going on there but I'll likely not bother to go back. Ended up in Wyoming on the Noth Platte which has it's own problems, but it was far-more productive. Better food (& drink) options there as well. Travelling with a 15-year old driver added it's own special charm (and a few challenges) but overall it was a good trip. We had fun and learned a few things.

Never needed a gun, also a good thing.

Glad you had a good trip.
Father/son time is hard to come by.


It's beautiful country.

The big res' of the West can be very eye opening.

Good for you with the adventure you had with your boy. Many more.

I hope you have a fun trip. A person never needs a handgun...until they need one very badly! For those of you who know when or where you need one, good for you. I have a spare in my truck, a set of jumper cables, and a sidearm. They are all tools to be used at unexpected times to solve problems. I hope none are needed.

Common sense right there. But, common sense is not all that common, and that explains why a few don’t understand being prepared, or, worse yet, want to inflict their lack of common sense upon you.

I will never understand the orgasmic thrill people get telling other people what they can and can’t do, while taking no responsibility for the outcome.

Hope you had a great trip, Lloyd. There was some weather in our stomping grounds this week, hope the birds did OK.

Best,
Ted

I'm guessing you had an "orgasmic thrill" when you typed that gibberish....

I felt more like taking a dump after I read it Teddy bOy.