I’m interested in what you guys think of this one:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101301224

Looks like only the floor plate was re-blued? Nice hunting gun priced right in my mind.

Seems like it wasn't long ago those kinds of Model 21s were under a grand. A friend got such a gun in 16-gauge at one of the Vintage Cups at Pintail Pointe for $900.

Good deal, hell the barrels are worth 2 grand.


Im looking for an early Canoe Paddle double trigger 16.
Think he wants to sell?

why are 21's so pricy when compared to parker or fox gun? is it the winchester brand? kinda like colt vs smith?

I looked at this early M21- DT-Ext- on our return trip from Gettysburg PA, Mae and I stopped in at the Cabela's Dundee shop- and of course, I went right to the gun library- I looked over this older M21- lotsa honest field wear- scratches on forearm, buttstock, blueing wear- but in spite of the Bass-Ackwards Blow Shop trigger lock policy, I could open the action and check the bores- looked good, also removed the forearm, and just as on my 12 M21 with 28" barrels, the chokes were marked on the barrel flats- right barrel-front trigger- cyl. (no choke) left barrel-rear trigger- mod, choke- maybe a good quail and woodcock gun, if you like carrying a 7 lb. gun through the grouse coverts-

I also was able to go over a late (I-H) M1 Garand- SA code on the barrel- a re-manufactured armory Garand- bore was fine, no P for proof mark on the pg-- and no inspectors cartouche- stock looked like new, except for rear handguard- asking $16OO-- humm? RWTF

Might just be the photo, but I’d ask about the pitch. Something looks funky about the angle of the butt pad. Offer them $2500 and I’ll bet it’s yours.

Dang it bOb that's about what you wuz asking for your re'-painted model 37.

Pitch looks about 1 1/2" negative pitch. In other words, the muzzle contacts the wall before the top of the action.

I think you'd win that bet "in a walk"-- Not worth 3k-IMO. I had a gent at our area pheasant club offer me $3K for my Dad's M21- mfg. aprox 1940- also a 28" barrel, but with single selective trigger, auto ejectors- field grade. Dad bought it used for $85.00 in 1948- first owner traded it back to dealer for a 16 gauge M21-- It is choked imp. cyl. and mod.--splinter forearm, pg buttstock- red solid factory pad. Just for the "Hay of it"- I meaured the dims and pitch- 14&1/4" LOP, 1&1/2" DAC, 2&1/4" DAC,
zero cast- 1&1/4" downpitch from muzzle to door jamb measurement.

I still have it, have shot it steadily since 1980- great pheasant gun -- upland hunting. A bit too openly choked for our club's Tower shoots- I have never moved the trigger selector button in the trigger blade from "right hand barrel first"..

To those gents who spotted the "unusual down pitch"-- "Nice eye, gents- indeed. I mounted it and swung through right to left "pretend birds" towards the ceiling line whilst in the Library- never noticed that excessive pitch issue- possibly because I had NO plans to buy it. RWF

Can you "deal" with the sales department at Cabelas? I know that over the last couple of years my lower offers have been accepted by various well know gun traders. Soft markets, but Cabelas may not care!

it dont hurt to ask...so long as you do it nicely and respectfully...

and generally, in retail, stock needs to be moved or it becomes stale...also, if an item is on the shelf too long, its very presence in the store can be considered by upper management as an error in acquiring the item to begin with...

make a reasonable offer weekly...eventually it will get sold to you or someone else...

I wonder what my M21 16 bore made in 1935 with factory IC/IM chokes is worth?

Double triggers?
Splinter forend?
How's it stocked?

FWIW Jim, as I do NOT own any 16 gauge shotguns-- I surmise that in the pre-WW2 mfg. era (better wood, finish, etc. ) it might bring good $ in today's "iffy" gun market.

Have you checked the current Fijestad's Blue Book for possible price range, depending on, of course, condition.

Personally, even though my M21 is the only double in my modest array to have a SST- It would be hard for me to justify paying more for an early mfg. M21 with DT. Just my 2 cents worth-- RWTF

My 16 has single trigger, ejectors & 28" barrel. Is a 16 worth more than a 20? I have a 20 too. I was thinking maybe I don't need both?
Jim

If you ask Bob Cash... He might be willing to give you $1200.00 because it has wear and because 16 gauge guns are not popular.

Then when Bob sells it in a few months, it will be advertised as a very desirable small bore all original ultra-rare variation for the low low price of $3900.00... plus shipping and handling.

Seller beware....

Sorry Jim.
If you'd like to pm me I'd be happy to help you ascertain value.

Hey Lying Nazi Douchebag vilhelm,
Your ignorance of the Model 21 market is laughable and your unhealthy obsession with me is creeping me out.

Originally Posted By: keith
Jim, the old German gunsmith who lived a couple miles from my Dad once showed me some vierlings and drillings that were engraved and inlaid like this. I used to frequent his gun shop and was looking at the used gun rack one day, and he came over and said in broken English, "These guns... all junk! You want see some nice guns, I show you nice guns." He took me into his house which was attached to the shop, and it was stuffed with guns of all kinds. Many were extremely ornate, heavily engraved, and inlaid with gold, silver, and ivory.

He explained to me that he was trained as an armorer for the German Army during WWII, and that part of his his job was to destroy guns that the Nazi's confiscated from towns and villages they conquered during the Blitzkrieg. They would issue a decree to the residents that they had 24 hours to turn in their guns, and if they were caught with guns after that, they were executed.

He told me he was supposed to remove the stocks from the guns, burn the wood, and put the breech section of the barreled action in a press, and crush it so it could not be recaptured and reused. The scrap was sent to steel mills to be converted to new steel for Nazi weapons. He said, "Oh, I crush a lot of very nice guns, but really nice ones, I keep and stash when I can. Then after the war, I come to United States, and my brother smuggle them over here to me." I have no idea how they accomplished this, but he didn't just have a lot of guns. He literally had tonnage. Not all of it was as nice as your photo, but I saw stuff that rivaled anything I saw in the NRA Museum, Harold's Club Casino gun collection in Reno, or anything else I've seen.

The last time I saw these guns was in 1991 during the first Gulf War. I went to his new house he built after he retired to see if he had some Mauser parts I needed. His wife remembered me and invited me in because he wasn't feeling well. The new house was also stuffed with guns... thousands of them, in every room. Many were getting that dry rust patina that comes from neglect. It would have taken a year just to clean them all. He and his wife were cheering for Saddam Hussein as CNN reported that Iraq was firing Scud missiles into Israel. They called them "Stud Missiles" in their broken English, and saying they hoped Saddam killed all of the Jews. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi, I guess.

Like you said Lying Nazi Douchebag vilhelm,
once a Nazi, always a Nazi.

I guess it's pretty obvious just who is obsessed here Crying Bob. Maybe you would like to tell us how a visit to an ex-German WWII Armorer who emigrated to the United States after the war and became a U.S. citizen and a gunsmith makes me a Nazi?

You seem kinda stuck on repeating that post, but you intentionally leave out a lot of details that just don't fit the narrative that you and nca225 wish to create out of thin air.

And why don't you PM Jim to tell him how you were so obsessed with me that you decided to endanger my family by engaging in internet doxxing. The only thing that made you reconsider that spineless behavior was when I told you that if you continued, I might have to post your personal information and address so that Southern California gangbangers and crack-heads could come to look at your Model 21 collection.

You went ape-shit and said that I was threatening your family. But you felt perfectly justified in doing the same thing to me.

I admit to not knowing the Model 21 market and valuations near as much as my Syracuse Lefevers. But I also know your penchant for buying low and selling high. I would never trust you for a fair appraisal of a Model 21 or any other gun. I wouldn't be surprised if you peeled more than a few widows out of their dead husband's guns for a fraction of market value. Just my opinion, based solely upon the sleazy low-life behavior you exhibit here.

By the way, I did warn you that your cowardly doxxing would not turn out as you envisioned. You must have thought that you operate in a vacuum, and things like that wouldn't come back to bite you in the ass a hundred times over. But you (and Stevie and BrentD) were stupid enough to do it, and stupid enough to do it on behalf of another worm who was afraid to do it himself.

bOb has proven time and again he is a spoiled mOe'ron.

Sorry Bob Cash

Just my observations.

We've drifted a way from the original theme of this thread, folks.

I don't know Bob Cash- heck, I never knew Johnny- even though I play a Martin guitar, as he did-- But if he is a dealer, who likes to buy, sell and trade M21's and he complies with our host's rules,then let him be. All successful dealers work on the solid theory- "you make your money on the buy-in, not the eventual sale"- .That's the way the market works.

When Jim C. asked about a possible value of a 16 ga. M21, I tried to answer "blindly" as it, of course, would be easier if I had his gun in hand. The final decision is up to him. The best 2 dealers on M21's, again, IMO- were the lates: Don Criswell of Yorba Linda (beautiful garden) CA, and my good friend Bill Jaqua of Findlay, OH..

I will offer a SWAG here, to whether the Dundee GL will "deal and dicker" on that M21--I think they will, if they have had that gun in their inventory for more than 90 days. RWTF

Sorry Fox



...and

If you shop the isles at a plundering Nazi gunsmith's shop, looking for parts that you can use for your own benefit, knowing full well where and from whom these guns were stolen,
then you're a Nazi sympathizing scumbag.

...and

If while shopping the isles at your favorite plundering Nazi gunsmith shop and you sit idly by while your Nazi pal Hans and his Frau Frida cheer the bombing of innocent civilians,
then you're even a bigger piece of sh!t.

Sod off vilhelm!

Whiney baby bOb

Well Run With the Fox, it looks like Lying Crying Bob didn't take your advice to heart. That's OK, because I had no intention of ever being nice to a spineless piece of shit like him. Being the liar he is, he would have you believe that I was buying Nazi plunder. It wouldn't fit his false narrative to tell the truth... that I sometimes went to the shop owned by a German gunsmith who became an American citizen after serving in the German Army during WWII. Of course, I never bought a single thing that he stole from the Nazis.

And when I visited him at his home some years later after he had retired, to buy a bolt stop spring for a Siamese Mauser, he and his wife were cheering for Saddam Hussein. Apparently, they were anti-semitic... much like Bob's Libtard California pal Dr.Wanker. And he didn't have the part I needed, so I didn't buy anything. Lying Crying Bob knows that, but he would rather continue to lie, because that's what he does.

And when you do your spell-checker critique of Bob's false post, don't forget that this brainless lying idiot spelled the word "aisle" wrong twice. His buying low and selling high would be one thing if he was a licensed FFL dealer. But he'd better be careful that his equally spineless pal Stevie doesn't turn him in for being an unlicensed firearms dealer with an obvious profit motive.

Am I always on your mind Bill? Hope the weather is equally beautiful in Pulaski as it is here in Ward. Take care,
Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7f189Z0v0Y

So there you have it Foxy. Lying Crying Bob needs to resort to deception to make his point. Do you think you or Jim could trust a guy like that when buying or selling a Model 21 or anything else?

And then, predictably.... his little coward friend, Stevie the Fairy Gunsmith, also known as the Official State Fruit of Colorado, comes swooping in to help out his boyfriend Lying Crying Bob. I hope Stevie's other boyfriend Shortshells doesn't get jealous. Stevie follows every post I make... and says that I can't stop thinking of him. Hmmmmmm. So tell me... if he is as swamped with business as he claims, how can he possibly spend hour after hour here acting like a foolish fairy, when customers are waiting to get their guns back?

No damn wonder he needs to do his continuous free advertising and self promotion of his businesses here. Do you think he pays Dave Weber $12.00 for each job he gets as a result of his advertising?

LYING kieth (Billie), tell us once again what a man frAnk is.




Wonderful he is able to keep you satisfied. That is important in every relationship.

You two been tearing it up at the Cloud 9 lately?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJZRZlmMe4


Do I hear banjos? You do remind me of Ned Beatty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNMjZpSbnU

Get Realistic!!!

How many Thousands of gun which the NAZI's stole from their lawful owners were brought to the US by returning GIs. I have one such my self, maybe two. One I bought in a gun shop & have absolutely no idea how it came to this country. The other one I bought from a gentleman who was a Master Machinist while I was serving my apprenticeship. He had a gun shop on the side. He acquired it from the ex-GI who brought it back. He fired it at a rabbit while hunting in the snow & thinks he must have got snow in the barrel because a chunk blew out of the right side of the right shot barrel (it is a drilling). How much would you oh "Ethical" one think it would cost me to try an run down the original owner & give them back a BUSTED GUN. Do you reckon they would reimburse me? I have not the foggiest idea if there are any living descendants of the original owner. IF they were Jews they may have all gone the way of the GAS CHAMBER.

These guns were "Spoils of War" & "To the Victor Go the Spoils. Get Real

The gentleman from whom Keith purchased the parts, stated he was under Orders by the Nazi Regime to "DESTROY" them. IIt is likely he risked his very life to save some of them.

Glad you brought up that QUOTE about jOe for about the one hundredth time Stevie. Like your boyfriend Bob, you need to use deception to create your false narrative. Why don't you QUOTE the entire post where you grabbed that line?

I made that comment to your other friend, the two-faced Canadian weasel Mustela frenata. I said that because he had emailed me asking me to slow rust blue some barrels for him using the formula and technique that Doug Woodin PA24 graciously gave to me.

But when I tried to respond by PM, I learned he had me on IGNORE. And it was because of that sort of two-faced behavior that I made the comment about his enemy jOe. jOe obviously has more integrity.

Note this too Stevie.... even though your buddy the two-faced Canadian weasel obviously no longer wanted to read anything I posted... He still wanted ME to rust blue his barrels.

HE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO RUST BLUE HIS BARRELS STEVIE.. HE WANTED THEM DONE WELL, SO HE ASKED ME!

Don't feel bad. Bob and BrentD and Shortshells still love you.