Just curious, I see some neat pinfire sxs hammer guns pop up for sale fairly often, and I've passed on some gorgeous ones, simply because of the ammo issue, and most of them are shot out and have cyl/cyl chokes. For those that have gone to the trouble of making or buying pinfire ammo, did you enjoy the whole experience? Was it effective? Or was it not really worth the trouble?

If you don't already enjoy making small batches of relatively close-fitting assemblies for old and non-standard systems, I'd say this isn't for you.

Can be fiddly but nice to get an old gun shooting again. I have about 3 dozen solid turned brass cases that should last forever. One tip is to remove the pin after firing as soon as possible as it is a devil to get out as it gets crudded up. I also use resized plastic centre fire cases with an insert into the old cap hole and a pin inserted through a drilled out hole at 90% to the rim. It works but case has to be thrown away afterwards after recovering the inset. Even if you don't intend to use them if you find a nice one then buy it; they aren't making any more! Lagopus…..

A nice representative pinfire is on my list of wants, but nice ones are few and far between here.

There is a member here, Steve Nash, who makes pinfires the focus of his collecting. He has an incredible collection of guns. Don't know how often he checks in but you might direct your question to him. He likely knows as much about pinfires as anyone.

I stumbled onto some of Steve Nash's writings abut pin-fires and early history of break action guns in UK. Darned good...here's a sample.
https://www.internetgunclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97

A friend of mine, who posts here from time to time, has one and it looks like a lot of fun to me. The main benefit seems to be the sense of accomplishment that comes from the exercise.
Mike

Steve has posted here on several occasions concerning his pinfire collection. My own PF collection consists of the Grand Total of 1, a W&C Scott which I put up some black & white photos of recently on one of Steve's posts.

This was another British made pinfire which was made for export as it is marked on the top rib For Benj D Kennedy Louisville Kentucky.

Steve has come to our SxS shoot the last couple years and brought 6-8 Li fires each time. A tiny portion of his collection. He a great guy and it’s been great having him join us. I would dare to say he knows as much about the early development of the break action SxS as anyone. We are talking authoritative book kind of level of knowledge.

Thanks for the kind words, my friends. Getting ready for winter has kept me busy and away from the keyboard these past days.

The pinfire system was a very clever idea, which was not in any way lessened by the better and more successful centre-fire system which replaced it. The pinfire was in use for several decades in France before appearing on the British market in the late 1850s and early 1860s, where despite competing simultaneously with the early centre-fire, it reigned supreme for roughly a decade. Produced by the 'best' makers and unrecognized craftsmen in the back alleys of the Birmingham gun quarter, for the sportsman the gun of choice was the pinfire.

Until it wasn't.

For the most part the British sporting pinfire was a largely hand-made gun, with steam-powered machinery and machine-made damascus tubes only starting to appear in the waning years. One of the reasons the pinfire is not highly appreciated today is that it is easy to compare it with its descendants. Tall hammers and prominent levers can't compete with the sleek, balanced hammerless game gun - though many a graceful design feature of the perfected Edwardian double gun made its start in the pinfire, such as top- and side-levers.

I prefer to appreciate the quality of their construction, and their ingenuity. As the OP said, there are some gorgeous ones that appear on the market from time to time.

While I have gone the route of loading reusable brass cases in the past, it is a tricky business to get the pressures just right, and I was never completely satisfied. Even pinfires that have not been 'shot out' have likely seen more shells than I can realistically imagine, and 'obsolete' guns are never carefully looked after. 160 or more years of inattentive storage is not a good starting point for testing gun barrels, and I have chosen to retire all of my pinfires from active shooting. Should someone start manufacturing consistent-quality black-powder pinfire shells I might reconsider, but I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon.

Are they worth the trouble? For shooting I would definitely look elsewhere, but for sheer enjoyment of the Victorian gunmaker's art, there is no finer gun to own.

Wow. That is an incredibily beautiful gun. Thank you Steve for sharing that with us, and for the advice. I have a hard enough time fiddling with 2.5" center fire shells for my Lefevers, so I think I'll take your advice.

Mark;
you may have looked at them when they ere up recently, but if not here is a link to the thread on my W&C Scott & Son pinfire;
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=556721#Post556721

Wow. What a rare find! 40 years and you still haven't shot it? Curiosity would get the best of me. Just curious, anyone know why are the majority of pinfires are cylinder choked?

Mark;
I can't say for certain, but I think the reason most re cylinder is just a matter of their time frame. As has been pointed out the pin-fire system was relatively short-lived & most were made before choke boring was fully developed & in general use.

According to Mr Crawford mine was likely built in 1863-65 & it is late for a pin-fire.

Mark, all early pinfires are cylynder-bored because they pre-date the invention of choke-boring, which was first patented around 1866 if I’m not mistaken. By the early 1870s choke-boring was widely used, but by then pinfires were obsolete, at least in Britain. You are more likely to find later Continental pinfires with choke-boring. Mind, the clever Victorians found other ways to extend the range of long shots, like wire cages around the pellets in the cartridge... and whether pre-choke barrels were truly cylynder-bored throughout their length is an interesting subject for study!

In the past Pinfire guns here where classed as obsolete but now my County Police are starting to strongly suggest that they need to be entered on your Licence because cartages are now being made and retailed and France was mentioned. A distributer here in Brit land was also mentioned but now no longer stock them because of the high cost. So the constabulary have come up with this gem if you shoot the gun it will have to be entered on your Licence but if you do not intend to shoot the gun it can be kept as a curio and kept under lock and key. The gun in the picture was built by Samuel Ebrall of Shrewsbury. I was lucky when I came across the gun it had a lot of the reloading tools with it.

Any cased pinfire is a cause for celebration, better still if it comes with loading tools!

Steve, I don't know whether you saw this New Zealand pin-fire Reilly that I dated to April 1858. Really interesting...and of course the question I asked there is also interesting - i.e. when did Birmingham start to manufacture center-break pin-fires.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=36

Argo44, thanks for reminding me. That New Zealand gun is a real beauty, and like all 1850s British pinfires, a rare treasure. I've just rambled at length about these early designs in your Reilly thread, so I won't repeat it here!

The original Lefaucheux double-bite fastening system partially raises the barrels when the forward underlever opens fully. This assisted opening would have helped speed up loading and unloading. In the New Zealand Reilly I'm guessing it has the Lang-designed rising stud on the action bar near the face, which moves when the forward underlever is rotated. While a feature of the early single-bite forward-underlever (and some single-bite rearward-underlever) guns, this mechanism was never patented by Lang and it was widely copied.

You might take a look at the latest Double Gun Journal. There's an article about an absolutely stunning pinfire toward the end of the magazine. Just looked at the photos so far (I always go through the entire issue looking at pictures before reading the articles), so I can't tell you much more about it.

Thanks for the heads-up. Bar-in-wood pinfires are stunning, and it is nice to see an article discussing one.

I have focussed my research on the British pinfire game gun to appreciate them and the technology they advanced. To come back to the original point of this thread, just because a gun can’t or shouldn’t be shot, it shouldn’t be dismissed as having no value, or to be of no interest. They are no longer hunting tools, true, but they are artifacts from a bygone age. They are still wonderful to hold and admire. That is reason enough to own one. It is a shame there is so little available information on them, something I hope to improve in the near future.