Unusual, even for a Darne...

Posted by: Recoil Rob

Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 01:24 PM

Not sure what that coating is, looks copper colored but that may just be the photo...

Engraved Darne 16.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 03:11 PM

I just threw up in my mouth a little....


ďPlumedĒ rib? ďGrade 3Ē?

Buyer beware.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 03:28 PM

Looks like a Darne purty quail gun...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Looks like a Darne purty quail gun...


Think you better ponder some more.


Best,
Ted


__________________________________
Think about changing that Depend garment, too.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 04:06 PM

Might be a bOb Cash upgrade...
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 05:06 PM

That is pretty bizzare.

But speaking of Darne metal finishes, lately, I have seen several lower grade Darnes for sale with particularly vivid case colors on the actions. They appear to be cyanide colors. Is that typical of lesser Darnes?
Posted by: battle

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 06:23 PM

Gold plate...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
That is pretty bizzare.

But speaking of Darne metal finishes, lately, I have seen several lower grade Darnes for sale with particularly vivid case colors on the actions. They appear to be cyanide colors. Is that typical of lesser Darnes?


Post WWII, cyanide case colors on R10 Darnes. They soldiered on with XT steel until the Bruchet era. The higher grades no longer came with case colors because the steel was upgraded to XTC, for all intents, a French version of 4140 chromoly. The hardening is French grey on those, similar to color case hardening, but, the quench takes place in a solution of potassium prussiate, instead of water.
The barrels of magnum and higher grade guns are also XTC, which, is tough to blue.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/10/19 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: battle
Gold plate...


If Ted bought it he'd have to upgrade his toof to match it...
Posted by: 2-piper

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/11/19 05:38 AM

4140 = Chrome/Nickle, 4340 = Chrome/Nickle/Moly, often referred to as just Chrome/Moly. Both are normally through-hardened, not case hardened & the usual quench is oil. Drop the carbon content to 30 points as 4130/4330 & they become Water hardening.

I have no info on the French XTC at all, but I cut a pile of those others in my career & while I didn't personally do the heat treating of them I know how it was done.
Posted by: Run With The Fox

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/11/19 11:03 AM

No, not your "pal" Bob-maybe Johnny. Darne engraving and metal finish are to shotguns what Dolly Parton is to Dianne Von Furstenberg!! RWTF
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/11/19 05:02 PM

Fox,
Iím guessing you missed this, but, the engraving and metal finish displayed on the Darne in this post, were not done in France, and have nothing to do with the Darne company, or products of same.
Do try to pay attention.

Miller,
XT is a French tool steel that does allow for cyanide color case hardening. XTC is the chrome version of that steel. I seem to remember it was a through hardening tool steel, and did not allow for attractive colors in the cyanide process. The color produced on the exterior of XTC with the French grey process could be varied slightly depending on quench chemistry, and, was no more or less durable than normal case hardening colors.
Sometimes, customers asked that the grey be polished off. The guys used steel wool and gum erasers to do so. Otherwise, the parts got a coat of varnish, that does yellow with time.
I prefer the silver color left there, it is an attractive matte pewter color.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/11/19 08:25 PM

That is a nice one. I'm in the market for just the right one.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/11/19 08:45 PM

Best one Iíve seen of late:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101324387

The ad with no price, the mis information about where the gun came from originally (Steve Barnett never imported Darne guns, and it is clearly marked ďLoren Thomas LtdĒ, which, was Wes Gilpin) and the lack of photos of the flats all tend to point to a dealer who you might want to keep an eye on, or, just not deal with. That gun was built before Paul Bruchet had permission to use the Darne name, and to label the guns as R and V models. A Bruchet marked A is a V model, a Bruchet marked B is an R, and just as soon as he got permission to use the Darne name, Paul did.
It is engraved to R15 level, (rosace) and was engraved by Guy Ripamonte. Nice wood, no mention of extras, but, exceptionally well finished. I love a checkered ebony buttplate on a French gun.
It wonít be cheap. But, it might not sell for as much as Mr. dealer wants, and I donít care enough to find out what that amount might be.

Just right, or, just the right price?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101320253

Iíve had my eye on this one for a bit. It is not a Darne, but, a clone, with some nice features. It has a bunch of miles on it, but, Iíd expect it functions just fine. The push button safety will be easier for a right handled individual to deal with, and it is a straight stocked sub gauge. The short chambers and sling swivels give you some leverage with the price, but, they donít bother me a bit on a hunting gun. The trigger pulls have a well deserved reputation for being stout. I have beat the price of a Darne down on trigger pulls, and then just taken the gun apart and fixed it.
Iíd offer about $500 and see what happened. I donít need it. Maybe you do.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 08:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Just right, or, just the right price?



Just right, though I don't intend to overpay either.

Just right is 12 or 16 gauge, 2.75", choked IC/M, 6# or less, pistol or semi-pistolgrip, 26-28" barrels, with reasonable drops and LOP, and easy on the eyes. Intended for pheasant loads, not a grouse or quail gun.

It doesn't have to be a Darne, but they interest me, and they tend to run lighter than many others. Pistol-grip guns in those gauges, if English, seem to rarely be in the sub 6 pound range. There was someone here on the forum who sold a Darne on GB in the last few months. THAT gun would do, and I bid all I had at the time, but lost. I could and would bid considerably more now for that same gun.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 11:04 AM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
That is a nice one. I'm in the market for just the right one.


I can see you wanting a Darn'e....
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 12:44 PM

A 2 3/4" 12 weighing less than 6 lbs? Intended for pheasant loads?

Hey, did I ever tell you the story of my detached retina?

I've never measured bores on a Darne that made me uncomfortable with the notion of letting the chambers out to 2 3/4", from 65mm.
I could run standard, 2 3/4" loads happily in a Darne 12 or 16 at 65mm, the rest of my life, as well.

Most of what appears out there is junk, but, you already knew that. Take your time.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 01:09 PM

Indeed, recoil might be a bit stiff, but it's not like we shoot a lot when pheasant hunting. A bird per every couple of miles is about it, especially late in the season when I really want a light gun. Of course, one can always download for shooting clays a bit.

Logically however, I think a 16 is more likely than a 12, exp in a nonDarne.

Yes, there is lots of junk. Some is easy to spot some is not. Darnes being new to me are especially difficult that way. That's why I was asking about the vivid cyanide colors on some low end Darnes. They look suspiciously refinished, often where the wood meets the metal also.
Posted by: JohnfromUK

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Just right, or, just the right price?





It doesn't have to be a Darne, but they interest me, and they tend to run lighter than many others. Pistol-grip guns in those gauges, if English, seem to rarely be in the sub 6 pound range. There was someone here on the forum who sold a Darne on GB in the last few months. THAT gun would do, and I bid all I had at the time, but lost. I could and would bid considerably more now for that same gun.


English pistol grips are not very common - and when fitted are usually on 'heavy duty' style guns (such as pigeon guns), and often combined with a single trigger. Prince of Wales (virtually a half pistol) grip are more common on lighter guns, but most light guns have a straight stock and double triggers.

I have a Darne in 12 g - a whisker under 6 lbs - and it kicks like a mule even with a 3/4 oz load. I respect the engineering and enjoy the eccentricity, but to use, a light basic English boxlock (about 6 1/4 lbs) is a nicer and economical proposition,

As I'm sure you are aware - many light English guns are only 2 1/2" chambers, which may be a bit more hard to find in the USA (easy here in the UK).
Posted by: KY Jon

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 02:40 PM

2 1/2Ē shells are not that hard to to find here. Bit more pricey. But itís fairly easy to have ammo shipped to most locations. What is harder is knowing what pressure they are loaded to here. But most specialty loaders will share that information if you contact them. Most of us just reload which is very easy to do these days.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 04:22 PM

Light guns are more difficult to shoot well. Light guns loaded up with late season pheasant loads, more so. Iíve been involved in some late season pheasant hunting that was more like pass shooting ducks, but, honestly donít like that.
I havenít looked real hard lately, but, if I see a 12 or 16 that meets your spec, Iíll post it. I do not recall the gun you were bidding on. Sub 6 pounds is a bit of a tall order, even in a Darne. My 12 is 6 lbs, with itís sling.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 04:33 PM

John,
Yes, I agree, light and pistol grips are not often compatible, esp. with English guns. That's part of why the Darnes interest me. What is the geometry of the stock drop at heel and comb? Seems that many Darnes are pretty high combed, and that will beat up my face a bit.

6.25 would be acceptable. My current, lightest 12 is a 6.5# Merkel with a straight grip.

In a 16, that maybe more doable, but still your point is well taken

I'd not be indisposed towards an American gun. I don't have one actually. Most that I have seen are on the very low end of the quality scale and they seem to be often quite heavy.

I'm shopping, and I have the money at hand now that I did not before. But I am in no hurry. Looking for the right one.

KY Jon, I prefer the 2.75" chamber not so much to buy shells off the shelf, though that is a nice option, but because I often feel that I'm trying to get too much out of a small container and pushing limits. I have had a 2.5" 16 ga, but my experience with short cartridges is admittedly limited.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 06:07 PM

I cannot conceive any reason to use a 6 1/4 lb. or less shotgun with 1 1/4 oz. loads ............. even at pheasants........... even once per day. If I cannot carry a 7+ lb. gun long enough to to kill a pheasant I will gladly go to the truck.

Anyway, is 1 1/4 oz. load necessary to kill a wild pheasant? I seem to remember ChuckH doing a respectable job with a .410. Maximum in that bore is 3/4 oz., and he wasn't using that heavy a load, AIR.

SRH
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 06:19 PM

Stan,
Some people may need 1 1/4 oz. for late season pheasants, but I've done very well with 1 oz. RST 2 1/2" #5 shells for pheasants most of the season.
Karl
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 06:52 PM

I think some of you would be surprised to hunt wild birds with Gus and I here in Iowa. Bring your .410 if you wish. And if you want to carry a 7# .410 gun with 3/4 ounce loads, be my guest. At the end of the day, we can compare. I'm currently carrying a 7.25# gun with 30" barrels. It's fine, but I think a lighter gun will be nicer when it's 15 degrees, windy, and we are out in the cattails with snow. Maybe on snowshoes. It ain't georgia around here (I've hunted Georgia for 2 yrs so I can say that with some experience).

So, if you don't mind, I would like to try my hand at 6- gun instead of a 7+.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 07:08 PM

Let us know how that sub-6 lb. gun works out with 1 1//4 pheasant loads. And no, I don't mind at all. grin

SRH
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 07:16 PM

You have all the answers, don't you Stan? You know more about what I hunt than I do. What's new?
Posted by: buzz

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 08:17 PM

Iím not a pheasant hunter per se, more grouse and quail, but I went pheasant hunting a couple years ago in northern Oklahoma. We hunted drainage ditches, black mucky soil with cat tails. Rough is putting it mildly. A light gun is what I wanted and needed. 1 1/4 oz shells are going to kick out of a 6 lb gun, but pheasant limit is 2 or 3 birds. Whatís a guy going to shoot, 6-8 shells in a hunt?? A little recoil probably wonít be that big of a deal with only a few shots. Get what you want for your game Brent.
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 08:26 PM

buzz, never fear, I will. Last year I kept a loose record of the number of miles logged on foot or snowshoes per bird shot. I wish I remember what the final average was in birds per mile, but it was less than one. And it isn't easy stuff to walk at all.

Lots of kids grow up with Stevens, Savage, or H&R singleshots that weigh a lot less than 6# and they manage. Or at least we used to.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/12/19 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
You have all the answers, don't you Stan? You know more about what I hunt than I do. What's new?


Nope. But, I do know what a sub-6 lb. gun feels like with 1 1/4 loads, and it ain't pretty. But, you have at it, 'cause you're tired of totin' a heavier gun. I think you'll see for yourself that the pain ain't worth the gain.

SRH
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 07:05 AM

A 6 lb 12ga. with 1 & 1/4 oz loads might be a little much for hunting buck nAked in jOe'ja....

But then again some 1 & 1/4oz 12ga. shells don't kick as bad as some 1 oz. loads.

Just sAying.
Posted by: 2-piper

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 11:41 AM

I have a 16 gauge Halifax (License Darne) which is the R type. Its weight is 5 lb 14 oz. It is very comfortable to shoot with regular 1 oz loads. I handloaded some low-velocity loads using 1ľ oz of shot to about 1100 fps & it was not bad at all. I have shot a few 20 gauge 3" factory 1ľ magnum loads from a 6ľ lb gun. You knew the recoil was there but for the number of shells fired as stated for the purpose they would not be unduly Hurtful unless one is extremely sensitive to recoil. I likely would be now at 81 & going through Chemo, but for most of my life was not.

It is noted that in most cases 1 oz loads in the 16 are not "Hotted" up like the normally available 1 oz 12 gauge loads are today. Not many of the "Gas Guns" made in 16 gauge.
Posted by: JohnfromUK

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
John,
What is the geometry of the stock drop at heel and comb? Seems that many Darnes are pretty high combed, and that will beat up my face a bit.


My Darne is 1 and 7/16" at the comb and 2 and 3/16" at the heel. A point to note is that the breech is almost over the front trigger - whereas an English gun the breech is ahead of the trigger. This makes the gun seem shorter than it actually measures (the breech is nearer the eye), and I suspect increases upward muzzle flip - which adds to the impression of high recoil.
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 12:23 PM

No one (except Stan) says one has to load 1.25 oz loads in a 12 for pheasants. But certainly, they work well. I typically use either my own reloads of Bi or Pb shot with 1.25 oz or 1.125 oz loads if I'm buying over the counter, depending on what's available.

I shoot turkeys and geese with far heavier loads in a 6.5# gun. Is a half pound really going to matter for a few shots per weekend? With respect to recoil, of course not. With respect to carrying, maybe so. I cover 10-15 miles per weekend in the late season according to various phone apps that have tracking capabilities. A half pound less weight in my hands over those distances may be nice to experience. Well, I know it is, because I used to use a 6-# 16 gauge Evans, but I sold it.

Pheasant hunting is one of much walking, stomping, jumping and whatever else it takes to get through heavy cover and snow. It is not something that involves a lot of shooting. Most people, not named Stan anyway, have no problem with firing a few stout loads of whatever weight and charge in a light gun. Carrying a light gun is nicer than carrying a heavier gun. Never heard anyone say, "Gosh darn it, my gun is too light to carry." (but then there is Stan). And carrying is what we do 99.9% of the time when upland bird hunting, because this is hunting, not shooting.

Anyway, I'm looking for a light gun. 16 or 12 gauge. I'm going to be as patient as it takes because I can get by, no problem, with what I have, which is quite nice actually. Just looking for something different with a little jingle in my pocket at the moment.

If I said I like to hunt pheasants on days when the sun rises in the East, Stan would probably find some fault in that too.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
No one (except Stan) says one has to load 1.25 oz. loads in a 12 for pheasants.


Would you kindly show me where I said any such thing?

It's the weight of the gun, not the gauge. And the recoil is about much more than unpleasantness. It's about how quickly one can get the gun to bear accurately for the followup shot, be it to finish a wounded bird or kill a second.

You're evidently more.of a man than me, and a much better shot, if you can get a sub-6 lb. gun on the bird for the second shot with 1 1/4 oz. loads, as quickly as you can a 7 lb. gun.

I sincerely wish you the best with the endeavor. No ill will here.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 04:27 PM

Stanís advice is not bad. Recoil is a force to be reckoned with.

Iíve got a lot of time in hunting pheasants, a lot of time on snowshoes, and plenty of time (maybe too much) hunting birds on snowshoes. In that endeavor, I prefer a LONG light weight gun. I have a folding single shot hammerless, 30Ē barrel and 46 points of choke, that doubles as a balance pole when I am on snowshoes. Truth be told, Iíve never needed a second shot on snowshoes. I have enough trouble getting one shot off, and, if I do, maintaining balance on what is always a questionable footing. I have had times where a grouse erupted from a snow burrow, between the tips of my snowshoes. I have never gotten a shot off at one that did this.

A Darne could be a gun for that work. I guess if I hear of one that comes close to what you say you are looking for, Iíll give a heads up, here.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 09:00 PM

Thanks Ted,
I'm not a novice to recoil. Not by a very, very long shot.

I find 32" barrels too easy to plug in snow and difficult to negotiate with in tall grass which is 8-9 feet tall around here. I did this for a while with a 32" Evans, and it was fun, but not what I have in mind now.

I often get second shots on pheasants. They don't bust from under the snow quite like grouse -at least not often. My dog, Gus, and tracks in the snow provide ample warning. Again, usually.

If you see the right one, let me know. One just popped up tonight on GB -I think it is probably substantially overpriced ($4k), but it may be approximately what I want. Although weight is not listed. Pictures are poor.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 09:51 PM

If it is the gun with the full pistol grip, it is a restock in American black walnut, and worth nowhere near the asking price.

That was all I saw at 4K, and it has been there a while.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/13/19 10:16 PM

Yes, that's the one. The stock was totally wrong. Might be okay, but it's not right for sure. It looks like the rear of the fore end is oil soaked on each side. I'm curious what it weighs but at that price, I'm not interested.

Do Darnes ever have full pistol grips? I've not see one.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/14/19 05:12 AM

Never. Not unless they have been restocked, here.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/14/19 07:16 AM

Brent not sure why you'd entertain the thought of wanting one of those ill designed Fwench clunckers.

Ps...Notice how Stanley and Teddy have buddied up ?

Stan fArts...Ted runs in to get him a whiff.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/14/19 12:39 PM

Go pound on your parrot vise....'till you break it.


Again.




Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 08:26 AM


Have you totally lost it Ted ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 09:45 AM

Not even close, clown boy.

Iíll bet you never have even shot a Darne, never owned one, likely never have even seen one, outside of a picture, but, here you are, running your mouth about them.

I think you are lost.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 09:51 AM

I felt a Darne one time that was enough for me....

Felt kinda like one of them Mossburgz.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I felt a Darne one time that was enough for me....

Felt kinda like one of them Mossburgz.


Only you could make that jump. But, per usual, you prove my point.

Never owned one. Never had one apart. Never used one.

But, still running your yap like you have done it all.

Just a mouth, with a keyboard.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 11:34 AM

Brent,
This one might fit your needs:


https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=100942529

Couple things I noticed. Weight, or, lack there of, fits your needs. The seller has the gun listed as a 2 1/2Ē chamber gun, but, it was clearly proofed at 70mm or, 2 3/4Ē. Considering the barrels have a swamped rib, and, an under rib, which mounts the forward swivel, a 5 pound 14 1/2 oz weight is remarkable. It is a modern 1909 patent R, same gun that is built today, and the safety can be relocated to the other side of the breech block, something you canít do on a V gun, or, an 1894 patent R model, most of the clones fall into that category. Nice wood, Iím not in love with pistolet stocks, but, some guys prefer them. A 12, at that weight, that still has an original, but, shrunken buttplate, is a rare find. I would have Geoffrey put checkered ebony on, using the original, engraved screws, spendy, but so worth it. It is an R13 grade, and you get the styled stock mounting, and obturator discs, although it doesnít have a horn or ebony tip on the front, that wouldnít bother me one way or another. It has swivels installed, a plus to my way of thinking. Iíve carried an old dog out of the woods more than once, and an old person, one time. Good chance the LOP might be a little short for clays work in a T shirt, you will forget all about that once you are wearing a parka, and/or layers of Filson. The chokes listed on the gun are tighter than you wanted, but, Iíd run some felt wad English loads through the gun to see what I had before I messed with opening them. The bores of that gun were polished lengthwise, and those chokes are likely 6-9 beautiful inches in length, and wonít be improved.
James Wayne is one of those dealers that I question if he ever actually sells a gun, and this one has been listed a long time. I donít know if he will negotiate on price, and all that I can tell you for sure on the price he has listed is, you wonít be able to resell the gun for that.

As you laid it out, this one is about the best Iíve seen.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/16/19 08:59 PM

Ted,
Indeed, that is the best I've seen since the one that was sold by a forum member a few months ago on GB. It would have been the perfect gun for today which was a bit more than 9km of marching in medium-tall grass for no shots fired. Nice walk, except for yet another skunk incident.

I can live with those chokes easily for now, and might only open the right side if I did do anything. I definitely would shoot it a bit and pattern it before I did anything. Edited to say that it appears that the choke designation has been restamped over something that I can't quite make out. Doesn't really look like it is a 70 on top of a 65, but it is definitely restamped

The metal looks like it has something on it. Dried oil perhaps. Hard to say. But not an issue. Looks like it will clean. Very nice wood-metal fit which often seems to be an issue with these for some reason. The buttstock appears to straddle a graft line perhaps. But it is attractive enough for me.

What are those sunken ribs like for shooting? The drop at the heel is not great, but I think it is doable. Maybe the sunken rib accommodates for some of that height.

Why would the buttplate be shrunken like that? Sure is odd. I would definitely do something to replace it, depending on the LOP. I will not be too worried about t-shirting for clays in the summer. Though I'll probably do it once or twice. Heavy jackets and vests will be the rule, when it goes into action.

Your comment about the reversible trigger is interesting. Does it take replacement parts or can the mechanism just be reversed somehow? And how does the safety work? Sliding horizontally or does it pivot downward? I might like it as it is. I sometimes bump my tang safety on my Greener FP40. That is not a good thing at all, so I am constantly double checking my safety's position.

I agree that it could not resell for that sort of money. While it is in my comfort zone dollar wise, it lacks the engraving and wood figure that I would expect at that price point. I will think about what I would give for it, and then probably make an offer. That is definitely in the ballpark of what I've been looking for.

Thanks for the link. I don't know how I missed seeing this before.
Brent
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 01:45 AM

Brent,
I have seen stampings that look sloppy in the past. That is, often enough, because proof house workers are not craftsman, actually they are perfunctory government employees. Most Darne guns built since WWII are 70mm chamber guns, and more then one of them was marked 65. It happens.
Measure them. Iíd wager they are 70. If not, send it back, or, deal with it. It is not a big deal to make that gun work, at either chamber length. It received French triple proof when it was new, the exact, same proof anything with a 3Ē chamber received after 1964. You arenít going to hurt it.
The original buttplates that are marked Darne, like that one, are a bizarre organic plastic that involves petroleum and horse hooves, among God knows what other chemistry. They shrink, over time. All of them. There are ureathane replacements available, stateside, that duplicate the look without the color styrations in the originals, that wonít shrink. If you are that guy, go that route. I was thinking that gun was mid 1950s, buttplates on Darne guns are a maintenance item when they get that old.
I told you what I would do. Recoil pad is another option.
The metal has the remnants of the varnish that was applied to protect the French grey hardening. It strips right off in a 5 minute bath of lacquer thinner. Iíve stripped some, recoated some after stripping, and actually shot my R10 with Brownellís baking lacquer. All depends on what you want, and the simplest option is just leaving it alone. It effects very little.
I love a swamped rib. The sight picture is just the bead floating out there in space, no rib to view. That said, not everybody loves them, and I honestly think a raised rib works better for most guys on any clays course. But, I think the swamped rib is the cats meow in cover, after birds. Iíve never shot a grouse on a clays course. You get to draw your own conclusions.
The trigger is not reversible. The safety, is. It is a simple matter, usually, and requires no spare parts, just a guy like Geoffrey or JJ, or, me. There can be some complications, but, if you know what you are doing they just slow you down, and add a bit to the bill. The safety, over on the left, is on safe when pointed down, and is flicked forward (it rotates)to take it off safe. There is a spring that keeps some tension on it. You can use the lever as a safety also. More talk about that if you get closer. The safety is a pain in the ass. The guys who quit using Darne guns do so over the safety. The guys who keep using a Darne, adapt, because they want to shoot a Darne. You will figure out which one of those guys you are. Guys who are left handed, (me, Dustin) wonder what all the fuss is about.

You have my sympathy on the skunk thing. My Mother owned an Irish Setter show dog that would hunt, and he found, fought, was sprayed by, and killed every skunk he met in his 10 years on earth, maybe two dozen. Every time he got his head wet, his entire life, I faintly smelled skunk. He found a lot of birds, also.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: 2-piper

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 08:32 AM

I detested the safety on my Halifax (ala Darne). An article appeared in the Rifleman some years ago on how to switch it to the other side so I did the needed conversion. While the safety was inconvenient to operate with the thumb I "Personally" found it even more so to operate with the trigger finger, so turned it back around. I eventually made an entirely new safety for it with the lever set at a different angle which is better, but still not ideal.
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:25 PM

Well, another 9.5 km today with no birds in the bag. But at least no skunks either. It was a relatively easy hike, so my 7.25# Greener with 30" barrels was fine.

While walking I thought about that safety and I don't think it will be a hardship as it is, unless it is really stiff or something like that. I also thought about what I'm willing to pay and how to approach it. Tomorrow morning, I'll make an offer on the GI gun.

Maybe I'll be a Darne hunter before the end of the season. I don't think the birds will much care, but I'm pretty sure I would like it when the snow is deep in the tall grass and cattails.
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:29 PM

In the FWIW department, this queer old Darne that started this thread just sold for over $4100. I am not sad that I missed out on this one. Not sad at all.

https://auctions.thegunrunner.com/lots/v...engraved-france
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:34 PM

Brent...I like French guns...and speak the language. But just in case...something from the peanut gallery... there are alternatives. My 1898 Reilly hammer gun 2 1/2" chambered 12 gauge weighs 6 lbs 1 oz. It doesn't kick like a mule and is wonderfully balanced. It's not a Darne though.



Ted doesn't have a lot of faith in this chart but....here it is again. 5X422 would be dated about 1967 I believe - and as such should have 70mm chambers:


Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:41 PM

That's a beautiful gun, Argo. How long are those barrels? It's not really what I'm looking for, but I do like it. Is it a maple stock with that fiddle?

I am definitely interested in other guns that meet the criteria, but I don't see many and most of those I do find are Darnes. In the 16 gauge category there are a few more, but still, not something that grows on trees. Probably a reason for that, but so be it.

The Darne is just interesting to me, although a bit modern. When did the Darne action style first appear?
Posted by: buzz

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:49 PM

Brent, Not a double, but a Benelli 12 ga ultralight with 26Ē barrels and at 6 lbs would be serious medicine for pheasants and no problem shooting boomers. Iíve got one and it is a really good gun. Doesnít jam and easy to carry. Not sexy, but utilitarian. About $1,500 bucks. Just saying.....
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:52 PM

Ted will respond on the Darne...my feeling was that the first Darne appeared about 1894. We tracked Darnes serial numbers up to the change-over in Saint Etienne from cm to mm for measuring chambers in 1912 (i.e. 6.5 to 65) and pretty well confirmed parts of the chart. Ted will affirm that there are always confounding exceptions.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=485374

The E.M Reilly with 30" Damascus barrels is my first double and my favorite.. The stock is French walnut. Reilly's are still a bargain in my opinion.
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 09:56 PM

Buzz, there is exactly zero chance I'll ever hunt with an autoloader. I'm afraid someone would see me. I bet it is a great gun, but guns have to do more than kill birds to interest me. Unfortunately. It's hard on my pocket book.
Posted by: buzz

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 10:14 PM

Yeah, I know what you mean. Thereís a place for beater guns though, like in a duck boat where thereís lots of mud, the dog gets muddy paws on everything including the gun, etc., etc. I donít take fancy guns grouse hunting because itís rough if you really beat the bush, constantly banging up against aspen trees, tripping on deadfall and then falling, et. al. ....and the older I get, the rougher the guns take it mad Soon and due to aging, I will be forced to hunt just trails, then I probably can take the good ones. But......the hunting just wonít be as good.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/17/19 11:15 PM

The first Darne guns were not sliding breech guns, but, around 1877 Regis Darne started working on perfecting the sliding breech Darne. Those early guns turn up, here and there, but, I wouldnít be in a hurry to make an old one a daily user.
I have had my real old guns experience, and, moved on.

Brent, once I saw that you made use of a Greener, with safety to the left, I quit worrying about the Darne safety working out for you. A Charlin has a safety that is difficult to move, sprung like a light truck, and I no longer chase those. Again, the lever on a Charlin makes a dandy safety, but, Iím content with my Darnes.

Iím glad you missed out on Liberaceís Darne. I get queezy looking at it.

I wish you the best of luck. I canít say I know anyone who has actually completed a gun deal with James Wayne, but, I know a few people who have tried, and failed. If you end up with it, let us know.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/18/19 08:01 AM

Ted,
My Greener has a tang safety, not the left side switch. But I think I can make the left side safety work okay.

I would like to see the Liberace Darne in person, but I wouldn't pay real money for it.

Presumably Mr. Wayne sells guns. We shall see. I won't feel bad if I don't get it.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/18/19 04:24 PM

Brent,
My bad, I missed tang with Greener.

I have no evidence James Wayne sells guns. The same guns that caught my eye last year, and the year before, and the year before that are all still sitting there.

He isnít the only one.

Good luck.

Best,
Tec
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/18/19 06:32 PM

Well, this one may be sitting there for a long time too. I couldn't figure out how long the listing in GI has been there, but regardless, he has an offer in his inbox. I am not optimistic, but I'm not going to cry over this one if I don't get it either.
Posted by: keith

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/18/19 09:22 PM

I kind of suspected that BrentD and Jagermeister were one and the same person. And so begins the never-ending quest for the perfect Darne...

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 07:05 AM

I often wonder if Ted Sniffle'Bean being he's a certified cOon rapids trade skool cum lawde graduate that he might be the nutty liberal professor in drAg,
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I often wonder if Ted Sniffle'Bean being he's a certified cOon rapids trade skool cum lawde graduate that he might be the nutty liberal professor in drAg,



You already pointed out for us you know nothing about a Darne gun.

Stick to something you know-Chinese vises, maybe.


Best,
Ted

___________________________________
Second thought, scratch that. Let's run with
Depends diapers being what you know.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 03:52 PM

What part of "I don't own a Chinese vise" do you not understand Tedward ?
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 03:56 PM

Well, James Wayne will be keeping this Darne gun on the rack a bit longer (very bad pun intended). The owner of the gun was consulted, and is often the case with consignment guns, he has a fixed dollar amount he wants. He won't get it from me however. That's okay. I'd like a bit higher grade gun anyway, maybe around the same price. It's out there somewhere.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
What part of "I don't own a Chinese vise" do you not understand Tedward ?


You linked to Wilburt vise when you wanted everyone to have a crummy vise just like yours.

Wilburt=China.

The Chinese at least know how to put proper holes in the base for bolts.

Your new base is Chinese.

Best,
Ted

_____________________________________
Will never be a Wilton.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Unusual, even for a Darne... - 11/19/19 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: BrentD
Well, James Wayne will be keeping this Darne gun on the rack a bit longer (very bad pun intended). The owner of the gun was consulted, and is often the case with consignment guns, he has a fixed dollar amount he wants. He won't get it from me however. That's okay. I'd like a bit higher grade gun anyway, maybe around the same price. It's out there somewhere.


Best of luck. That gun has been there a while.

Best,
Ted