https://www.sauer.de/en/meisterwerk-shotgun/

does anyone here have one of these?

or are they only a myth?

Don"t they now belong to the Blaser group?

I know someone who has one.....I�ve seen it.

is it similar to the one depicted in the link above?

Nope. IIRC a boxlock in the vein of a Lindner Daly Diamond Quality model 375 with a ton of gold inlays. I believe it�s a gun from the 1920�s.

Can you get one without the gold inlays?

They make it look god awful.

I think for the money they cost they would be happy to make one without the inlays.

They should offer two models CB. God Awful and a field grade. The term less is more would go well with that double.

I believe Gordy & Sons has one for sale for around 64K

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I think the gun is a thing of beauty.
Pete

I'm more put off by the silver finish, case colors for me. The inlays would look OK on a CC background. At 64K I won't be troubled!

I'd be happy to have it just the way it is. That is one of the more handsome germanic guns that I've ever seen. Its lines seem far different than a run of the mill Sauer. I like it, just not $64k worth, but that says more about my wallet than the gun.

I have a ca 1901 Sauer/V L & d Knock About that appears to have the same basic action. If so this s a back action lock, which it appears to be in the picture. The sear is mounted vertically on the plate & hinges in the middle. The sear notch on the hammer is on the outer periphery of the hammer giving the best possible purchase, ie farthest possible from the axle. Overall an extremely good design in my opinion.

The Knock About is of course nowhere near this Fancy.

Just for you Chief!

https://www.sauer.de/en/shotgun-magma/

I can take gold on blue in small doses, gold on coin, aah, no thanks.

And does anyone actually use cocking indicators?

Miller, sorry to hear of your health issues and I wish you all the best. Have enjoyed your posts here over the years I've been around. Hope to continue to enjoy them for some time.

I have an early Sauer sidelock as well, made on a similar action so it likely is very close to yours although mine is labeled as a Sauer. Remarkably svelte design. It's a 12 gauge and down around 6 1/4 pounds with 29 1/2" barrels. Honestly it carries like a 16.

It's a project gun so it will be a while before all is done on it but with new wood, and fresh finishes on the action and the Damascus, it won't be a $65000 gun but CJO tells me it will be likely as well made. LOL

BTW, It is CJO who has the Sauer Model 29 Meisterwerk. It is quite something. Even if gold isn't one's "thing".

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/therustickshell/WORKPICTURES043.jpg

Here�s mine. Miller is right, the lock internals are just about perfect. Notice mine has an intercepting sear. The gun is a 12 gauge from the 1890�s and the barrels use the shoe lump method of joining which is a miracle of engineering in itself. Oh, the case colors are original, fresh out of an ultrasonic cleaning.



The US patent drawings for Sauer�s shoe lump:

Well e very best example can be seen here:http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/archive-fruhauf-hendrik/
There is also a very big difference in a meisterstuck and meisterarbeid.
Cheers, Marc.

Nice looking gun Joe. Mine also has the shoe lump. It does not have the intercepting sear, the sear is vertical rather than sloped as yours & has a Doll's head rather than the cross bolt. Mine is also a project gun, missing the entire forend. It has a leather-covered cheekpiece which has a split, looks to be cork beneath it with the comb hollowed out to hold the cork.

Yes! the case colors are much better. I think something was lost in the translation, Magma vs. Magna perhaps? Still the 64K question remains.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/hxM9qjC[/img] - Imgbox is down & I am having a little difficulty with this new fangled Imgur......


https://imgur.com/a/wQ0ZxR7


https://imgur.com/a/8yEIstA


https://imgur.com/a/IEdpZjP Marks are well worn like a re-do??


A Sauer Modell Nr. 29(Maybe??) Meisterwerk just sold on GunsInternational & it had my initial on the triggerguard bow. I guess I should have been a little faster??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The stock wood is fantastic on that gun beautiful German gun

Here’s a nice one that sold within hours of posting yesterday:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...1911-spectacular---.cfm?gun_id=102017115

I was sorely tempted, but I am limiting myself to guns I will actually hunt with anymore. Too nice for “rough” shooting, at least for me……..
Best Regards
JBP

Do you know what that one sold for, J.B.?

My question exactly Stan.

This is the same one of which I was referring. MC had tipped me off to it......


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

It has all the hallmarks of being a German inland Modell Nr. 29 Pigeon gun in 16 bore??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I had my hands on the one that Raimey and JB posted above. Spectacular gun, but a lot less than the 64K post on the one discussed earlier in this topic. Mark Beasland had several Sauers and I was shopping, but I went another direction. I do have a soft spot for Sauers since a fairly plain between the Wars Sauer 16 was my first classic sxs. Before I knew better, I had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4" on that one. Used it on pheasants with 1 1/8 oz Remington Express loads. Other than a broken link between top lever and Greener crossbolt, that gun survived all those heavy loads without any issues.

Interesting. Do you think it indeed was a Pigeon gun?


>>Chokes may be opened to your choice at time of sale for $50 per barrel .<<

This sentence, coupled with the term >>chamber<< always makes me cringe.......

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Gents, I bought the aforementioned 16 ga Sauer; supposed to pick it up today at my FFL. I don’t know what grade it is because it is not an export gun, but made for the German market, based on no ‘Made in Prussia’ marking on water table. I have a orig. S, D, & G catalog from 1907, and it matches up to a grade 60, without the gold( thank goodness). Interestingly, the catalog only lists 26” and 28” bbls. available on 16 ga. export models, but this one has 29 5/8” bbls. with concave rib and 6 lb. 1 oz. weight; most definitely not a pigeon gun, but a game gun. Hopefully, I can post some pics later, and maybe someone can tell me exactly what model it may be. Sandlapper

Hum, with those long 75cm tubes and other additions, it would sound like a Pigeon gun but I think they were in 12 bore only???

So, that would make a Modell Nr. 18.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, Thanks for the ID of grade. Do you know where I might obtain a catalog or reprint of Sauer’s offerings available in Germany when this gun was built(1911)? Obviously, there were different models available in Germany then as opposed to their export models ( Grade 45,60,etc.) in the 1907 catalog, they mention that they are prepared to make doubles up to $1000 U.S. I assume that would be a bar action sidelock model. Thanks, Sandlapper

I hate the image is so blurry.


Actually the S,D&G / Sauer $1000(4200 R.Marks) was an Anson & Deeley Body action.

Eine Minte für 4.200 Mk. Ansicht von rechts.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Very close to yours but with Gold inlay.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The toplever on the Daly / Sauer $1000 / 4200 R.Marks was skeleton.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

There is a Reprint of a Sauer catalogue on offer, but in Germany..:

Sauer & Sohn - Reprint

W.heil, Wolfgang

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/schuss-und-waffe-1907-1908-pdf/33350

Go here and in the left search glass / window type in 4200 & press enter. There should be 5 hits & 2 of them will be the S,D&G / Sauer $1000 / 4200 R. Marks.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

81 cm tubes too I think?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>Die Läufe tragen an der Mündung eine ca. 8 mm Eichenlaub - Reliefgravierung. <<

And that adornment on the muzzle of the tube is referred to above.....


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I would say, it's a Meisterwerk Model XVIII (18)

No Pigeon gun, then it would have the pigeon on the rail extension, not the cave man....

The masterpiece also had dollshead with greener, like the mod 35 double rifles....


W.heil,
Wolfgang

And: The pigeon shotguns were only available in 12 G....

W-heil,
Wolfgang

If you have a copy of DGJ Summerf 2004, there are some very good photos of high grade Prussian Sauers in an article by Jeff Stephens. I had a 16 that was either a 40 or a 45. I copied the article in b&w, so the photos don't show all that well.

Indeed I have several copies of 2004 & 2005 as somewhere in there lies the serial number sequence guesses.

Raimey
rse

That's also one of Stephens' articles.

Fellows, Thank you all for the information on this old Sauer. Fedex emailed and said it would be tomorrow on delivery, so I’ll have to wait. I would like to post some pictures with an iPhone of the gun if someone would give me a crash course on how to do so. Sandlapper

I forgot to mention that the Sauer has chopper lump 3-Ring Krupp barrels and a blind square crossbolt as found on W. & C. Scott guns from the same period (1911).

The grades and prices remind me of the old Parker catalog I once saw.
All my Parker Repros are entry level and all the higher grades sell for the price of a nice home.
But they all handle and shoot the same.

That is the Westley Richards & Greener combo I believe.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

If anyone wants to call up the GI ad, the # is 102017115. Pretty good pictures.

Hello Sanlapper, I’m a bit late to the party but wanted to say I just picked up a superb early Mod 17 in 16 bore, pretty much the exact same configuration as yours (obviously sans the engraving or chopper lump barrels).
It has 29 1/2 “ barrels of their best steel and the action is scalloped just like yours….I also have a Mod 29 Meisterarbeit in 12 bore.
These are some of my favourites….all phenomenal pieces, pm me if you need any additional info, also Jim Cates “ Sauer” book is a great source of information.

All best

CJ

CJ, Thanks for the information. When I have the Sauer in my hot little hands, I will reach out to you for your input. Just looking at all the details, it appears to be a Model XVIII sans the gold inlays, with maybe a little more scroll and fewer animals, on barrel wedges and floorplate than most of them. A little more English flavor than most. How do the the 16’s rank in production, as opposed to 12’s & 20’s, in your experience? Thanks, Sandlapper

Regarding the high grade Prussian Sauers, Stephens wrote in his DGJ article that where the Grade 40s were concerned, 12s were difficult to find but that 16s and 20s were "almost impossible". He said that he knew of just two 16s and three 20s. Given that I owned a 16ga Grade 40 and that I bought it from a Cabela's Gun Library, I've always thought that there may have been more of them out there than he thought. But he was actively looking for them while I was lucky enough to stumble across the one I bought at Cabela's.

Raimey, I noticed in some older Sauer threads, you mentioned Mr. Cates supplied production information on specific S/N Sauers. Does he have or have access to the factory production records, and if so, how might I contact him, please? Thanks, Sandlapper

Yes, I would have thought that 16 gauge models would be at least as popular as 12’s, given the Continental penchant for 16 bore guns. Maybe the export 16’s and 20’s are rarer than the inland German models. Thanks, Sandlapper

Well,looks like someone might be parting with their collection……or it’s a wild coincidence a 16 and a 20 within a couple of weeks

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...th-fine-gold-inlays.cfm?gun_id=102017227

Cate gives that Sauer Nr. 165,646 was made in 1914. I can dig up his contact email but I think you would be better off to contact Suhl master engraver & historian Henrik Frühaf:

http://gravuren-fruehauf.de/

He either has some copies or has full access to the Sauer records that exist in the Old Suhl Jail.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Wolfgang is always kind enough to feed the beast & my thirst for additional info & I forgot to post this link that is associated with Dietrich Apel:

https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibli...iltered=true&query=Meisterwerk+Sauer

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

And since Franz Schilling was the talented mechanic that applied the adornment to the above example, he could very well be the same hand as on yours. Henrik can make a stab @ that too.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

And times were on the cusp of becoming most difficult immediately after the Bump in the Road by WWI. So how is it that all these fantastic Sauer examples were coming out then?

Has anyone actual seen or held the S,D&G / Sauer $1000 / 4200 R. Marks Modell?? And by Drew's Money Calculus that would be near $30,000 today??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Too, if this thread needs to be in the German Section, I can use the one that has bubbled to the surface there?

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=617550#Post617550

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

https://imgur.com/a/0TqUCFT

https://imgur.com/a/iPOH1i9

Oooooooh.... I just noticed there is one of our Beloved Pigeons on this example......


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I was thinking the same thing. Although Josh has the one you linked to and a couple others were at Marks Born Again Bird Guns, IIRC. Whatever, suddenly their is a plethora (relative) of Sauer MW guns available.

God only knows what has been “squirrelled” away over the years….you and I are guilty of that as well
I hope when the time comes our wife’s don’t sell them for what we said we paid for them😂

Fellows , thank you for all of your input. I will definitely contact the individuals named and let everyone know what I find out. Sandlapper

I emailed Mr. Fruhauf this morning about the gun with particulars. Hopefully, he can tell me something about it. Thanks, Sandlapper

I meant to ask; any idea what the Model 18 sold for in Germany in 1914?

Picked up the Sauer today; after checking barrels out, MWT is .024/.024, bore diameter is .676”/.676”, which for a 16/1 proved gun is still barely in proof. Walls ahead of chambers are 0.091/.095, and walls@9” are .031/.032, so I think it will be safe. If anything, it may look better in person than pictures. All metal is very clean; it was not neglected. Chokes are .012/.028, so IC/IM. Will get Gunter Pfrommer to strip & clean, clean up some screw slots, and I’ll take it to SD for pheasants in November. The gun isn’t whippy with the longer tubes, and handles like a dream. Anybody who thinks only sidelocks can be best quality guns hasn’t picked up a gun like this one. If anyone can tell me how to post pics off an iPhone, I’ll do it. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Starting price for the Sauer Mod. 18 was from 1000 Reichsmark per Hendrik

Serbus,

Raimey
rse