Hi all,

I am a lurker on the site, but now I have a question for which I would like some opinions. I have a pretty nice English SLE in 12ga. It weighs just under 6.5 lbs and is choked IC and Modified with DT and straight hand stock. Recently I have been thinking about acquiring a 20ga sxs with which to hunt quail. The question is do I really need the 20 or should I just shoot the 12 with 7/8 or 1 oz loads? What will I get from the 20 that I don't get from the 12?

Thanks,

Tex

A snobbish sense of superiority and elitism over others for possessing a small bore?...if that's your thing. Otherwise that sounds like a very nice 12GA. Stick with it.

A gun that is maybe about one pound lighter.

or not. A lot of 20's are in the 6.5lbs range.

20 gauge shells require less room in your hunting vest. You can shoot in both 12 and 20 gauge vintager events.
Biggest advantage is the excuse to purchase another gun!

Whether or not it makes a difference to where you hunt, some privately owned land won't permit 12 gauges for quail. If you are considering a gun from the UK, a 16 ga. BLNE made between the wars will usually run under 6 lbs. and the cost will be lower than a 20 ga. in the same condition and maker. An Ithaca SKB 100 in 20 ga. weighs just under 6 lbs. depending on barrel length and wood density and in very good condition will be about $1K. Gil

Consider a 2" chamber 5.5lbs 12 bore. The perfect upland gun.

I have a couple for sale here, if interested and Dave gets a cut.

Hello Texsss

Welcome on your first posting

I would say use what you have and consider Win AA Xtra Light ammo

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/winchester-aa-x-tra-light-target-load-shotshells

What fun, what fun !

BUT who am I to say not to get another gun "Just because"



Pictures please of your current beauty

Mike

Skeetx is right-on here. If your Brit SLE fits you well, then what you have is as close to perfection as most shotguns ever get IMHO. That being said, however, is one gun truly ever enough? As has been mentioned here earlier, sub-gauge guns are mandated for some hunting situations (mostly quail, mostly private) and perhaps by your own physical limitations. They are very-much indeed all the usual adjectives you hear (cute, light, quick, pretty, etc.) but they do not kill anywhere nearly as effectively as the venerable 12 gauge. I shoot a 16 on upland birds because it strikes an excellent balance for me in the weight/handling/lethality equation but... I know that there are 12s out there that would solve that equation equally well for me (and perhaps even slightly better?) if I devoted the time and resources to find them. It all boils down to time and resources.

Why are quail limited to 20 gauges only? Do they kill them too dead? Too far? Is the landowner trying to limit effective range with a no-12 rule?

Here is the 12ga. Lessor know provincial maker, but a nice gun.

Brent, there's a notion, correct or not, that has been a topic of discussion that on a coveyrise, birds can be fringed and wounded with a 12 more than with a lighter load. ( I understand light 12 ga. loads. I handload them for a 12) The reason has been debated here and it ultimately boils down to "because the landowner said so." 16 gauges are permitted in these places. I heard of a fairly recent incident between acquaintances that resulted in a shouting match because a guest ignored the stated condition in the letter of invitation that no 12 gauges be used and the guest persisted in bring his 12 and argued with the landowner. It didn't go over well with the landowner and he wasn't persuaded. His land; his rules. Gil

Viva la 16!

Thanks Gil.

Texsss: Very nice gun. And...cased even!

ah man can neva hav too many gons, dogs an pick up trucks...

I have also encountered this nonsense in our great state of Texas. Of course it is nonsense! I think the intent was to prevent dude’s from bringing their 12’s and using 1 1/4 oz of #9’s or whatever. And on that point I agree. It would be so much nicer if the landowner said something like “maximum of 1 oz shot and nothing smaller than #8 shot (my rules).” But that’s too complicated for most folks so they restrict the gauge. One extremely large ranch in South Texas allowed me to use my 12 gauge Parker when I convinced them the payload and lethality in mine was the same as their 20’s.

One of the best guns hit ability wise I ever used on quail & woodcock was a 12 gauge with 28" Damascus barrels which I loaded with 1 oz of #8 shot @ about 1150 fps velocity. This gun weighed 6lb 14oz & was bored .010" choke (¼ choke) in both barrels.

Well, I absolutely hate loosing crippled birds. Seems to me it would be better to kill a bird cleanly with 1 1/4 ounce of shot than to cripple one with 7/8 or 1 ounce. Not that 7/8 can't do the job and I have never used 1 1/4 myself.
But I have never quail hunted in those high falutin circles and I know that is the tradition in some places.

Some of these old plantations in SW Georgia are hidebound in tradition. A friend hunts an expensive wild bird plantation that accepts paying guess for a few hunts a year. Rather than wear blaze orange for safety, they wear white jackets similar to what waiters used to wear in restaurants. Mule drawn wagons, hunters on horseback, only shoot coveyrises, no singles. Gil

And a sidelock to boot! Very nice gun!

Well gents, thanks for all the good info. Where I hunt it is pen raised birds and 12’s are OK. So there goes my excuse for a new gun. I would love to try one of those classic quail hunts for wild birds but darn are they pricey!

Plantation rules disallowing 12ga are nothing but vanity. There's a pretty good book by Tom Wolf called "A Man In Full". It revolves partly around the financial woes of an Atlanta businessman with a south Ga plantation he calls "Turp'ntine". Allows only .410 shotguns, but the author's ignorance is given away by continually referring to the guns shooting buckshot. Made me so mad I annotated my copy to correct...Geo

I have a distinct privilege of being allowed to hunt with the owner of a plantation that early releases quail, in August of each year. On the first hunt I am invited on I use one of my .410s. Though the birds will fly very well, they're not truly wild yet, but with the little gun I will miss more than my share.

Later in the season, when we go, I will go to the 20 bore with 7/8 oz. shot. No more is needed on any quail, wild or released, with the proper choke.

It's not 12 bores that shoot birddogs, IMO, it's dummies who shoot too low, whate'er the gauge.

As has been said by others, you honor your host's rules. Or .... "when in Rome ..........you shoot Roman candles".

SRH

Stan, along with dummies it is the use of spreader wads. I would not allow them to be used when I had bird dogs. I have seen several dogs victims of those wads spreading pellets, flyers feet away from where they were intended to be.

Coming late to this party

question is do I really need the 20 or should I just shoot the 12 with 7/8 or 1 oz loads?

Need? No you do not need to.

What will I get from the 20 that I don't get from the 12?

Overall weight of the gun, that said if you are used to the current gun, leave things be and shoot lighter loads

You get an excuse to shop for and buy another gun. That's good enough for me, but I have two 20s. I'm fresh out of 16s however.

Well since your talking about a 16, you should fix that post haste!

Robert Ruark "The Brave Quail"

The gauge of the gun is an index to the ability of the man to prove his manhood...If it is a 12-gauge, he is so-so. If it is a 16, he is pretty good. If it’s a 20-gauge, he is excellent, and if it a .410 he is bragging.

You will rarely find a dedicated quail shot who is not a pretty nice guy. He has to be a nice guy, because he is performing for the benefit of his dogs, himself, and his companions, and all are expert in the detection of fraudulent behavior in the field.
(Unfortunately, I've know a few who showed their true selves in the field; selves they could hide in the boardroom or on the golf course.)

BTW: The Old Man's Boy's new gun was a 16g Sauer
https://books.google.com/books?id=J2rlrdSc1cYC&pg=PA140&lpg

https://biggamelogic.com/ruarks-guns/

Guest should be banned for bad manners, never mind using a 12 gauge.

Maybe the twelve gauge fellow had a 2 1/2” and the 20 gauge guy had a 2 3/4” and didn’t want to get shown up by the fellow with a smaller (chamber).


________________________
Aerosmith wrote a song about a similar situation.