My re-education in the world of shooting sports continues.

I have been slowly moving my shotgunning over to the right shoulder after about fifty years of shooting off the left. Had I but known about eye dominance, circa 1974 or so, I might have started down this path much sooner, as I have suffered with that the whole time as well.

I have been playing with different guns about the place, except, of course, the lefty specific models, to see what seems to be the easiest to perform with. My Son is a budding shotguner, and wants to shoot on his school league when he becomes qualified to do so, next year.

Thus far, the Richland 20 gauge with 28” tubes, Mod and Imp Mod chokes, pistol grip and ugly beavertail has been the gun that gives me hope on the trap field. I shot a 20 of 25 today, ho-hum in a previous time for me, quietly satisfying after three attempts at my local club. I have more guns to try, but, I want to run the SXS guns as hard as I can, as that is what I want to use afield.

Recoil has been more pronounced to me since the switch. My middle finger on my right hand gets bruised, probably need to think harder about my grip, and put the little cushion I have for a triggerguard, on the gun. I feel clumsy shooting this way, not natural, and a bit off. But, I am thankful I can still try to shoot, and for my Son’s company and his dramatic improvement in just a few weeks. He is shooting a 12 gauge pump, and can’t get enough time out there. He went from a 2 to 15 in about three rounds, I coach a little, simple things I can see him doing wrong, lifting his head at the shot, checking his swing, etc, but, I’ve mostly let him be.



A Mossberg day for both of us. Think I shot a 17 that day.

It could be worse. I look forward to the coming bird season, and count my blessings.

Best,
Ted

Well done Ted . I have the eye dominance thing going on and the thought of switching shoulders gives me nightmares.

James,
Trust me, it should. Maybe there are guys that can make it look easy.

But, that guy ain’t me.

Best,
Ted

That`s quite a challenge ,hope it works out for you!!!

Stay the course, it WILL get better. Forced to switch sides quite a while ago. Now it's second nature. Best of luck to you both!
Chief

If you can shoot with your boy, that's a good enough excuse to shoot from which ever side you want. My boy is a bit older, but still a college kid. Over the last two weeks I threw many hundreds of hand and cheapie spring thrower targets for him. Coach your boy up anyway, it really can work out surprisingly well. We also shot a bunch of pistol, he just left this morning to head back.

I had such a bad flinch right handed that I had to start shooting left handed. It was that or quit. I had stopped shooting for six months and the flinch was waiting for my return.

I made the switch with a .410 to remove all recoil issues. Easy to do for me as I had learned to throw and bat from both right handed and left handed in baseball. After a few months I was once again breaking mid 90's in practice with the .410 in Skeet and 88-92 in trap at 16 yards.

After a couple years shooting left handed I went back to right handed. It took less than two weeks to be comfortable right handed and the flinch was gone for the most part. Maybe once in a hundred. Not once in five shots like before. Most times I can withhold fire when I flinch and just shoot the bird a bit later. When I had my bad flinch problem I looked like a drunk, with a bayonet, when it happened. I did not mind the laughter but it was becoming a safety issue in my mind. Now my flinch just makes me look like a old fellow who can not catch the bird. Hang in there your shooting will become smoother and more consistent.

Craig,
Really glad to hear your boy is heading back to school.

I suppose my brain needs to be retrained in the art of leaving both eyes open to shoot, but, the vision thing is troublesome. The difference between my eyes is almost to the point of feeling like double vision, my right eye is correctable to 20/20, the left has a distortion due to a wrinkle or bulge in the reattached retina. The blur from that also seems to float in the field of view, making it truly useless for shooting. For now, I just close the left eye, but, even just minimally, it would be nice to have the additional depth perception from binocular vision. I’m hoping to try that in due time.

At least I’m shooting.

Best,
Ted

Very interesting post, KyJon. One question, knowing that you are a bird hunter, too. Did you ever flinch when shooting at a game bird? Or, wasn't only on clay birds?

A release trigger might have been easier, I’m guessing.

When I was nearly 60 I was totally blinded in my right eye due to a botched surgery. I was heavily right eyed dominant and had shot from my right side since learning to shoot at age 6 or 7. Obviously had to switch over to the left. That took a couple of years and maybe (?) 2000 rounds before I was back to my previous skill level. Clays were easy to adjust to, game birds not so much. Picking a single out of a covey was ( is ) suddenly rather difficult, took much longer to get on a bird, etc. I also found shooting a SxS tougher due to just enough view being obscured by the wider muzzles so I sold them and shoot O/Us exclusively. I also found that recoil seemed to be much, much more noticeable, bruised hell out of middle finger, etc. Had never had either problem before. Depth perception is not an issue at all. The BIG problem was and still is if I don't carry the gun exclusively with my left hand already grasping the grip ready to shoot I will still try and mount the gun to my right shoulder. Old habits die hard.

The list of things I tried to get over my flinch is very long. I tried a Hydra-coil stock thinking recoil was the problem. Changed gun fit, changed to semi autos, tube set, pump gun and side by side. Tried to a combination of custom ear plugs with ear muffs to reduce noise being told it was noise as a trigger. Tried five or six different tube sets. Switched from 28" to 26" to 30" and then 32" barrels. Tried a sight blinder to prevent cross firing. Removed the sights completely. Stopped shooting everything but .410 for everything. Tried shooting with only one eye open. Tried a spot on my non master lens to block that eye from seeing the bird when shooting. Went to several shooting coaches for help. Learned to use my middle finger instead of my index finger as the trigger finger. Tried shooting with a gun mounted, semi mounted and even from below the hip at the call. Learned to shoot from the hip without mounting the gun. Got fairly good that way but that was more trick shooting than a fix.

Then I stopped shooting for almost a year. My flinch was waiting for me when I returned. With nothing to lose I tried left handed. To be honest it was not that hard but I knew if I flinched left handed I was done. A .410 is effortless to shoot. After two years I tried shooting right handed again. The flinch was gone for the most part. Might show up once in a hundred.

Only when I tried to shoot at a exact spot on the field and failed to see the proper sight picture did I flinch. I practiced riding birds well past my normal shooting points so that I could chase them down well across the field, even all the way to the landing point in some cases. After that I learned how to withhold fire on my flinches and just ride them out.

Stan, my flinches followed me into the field. It was not recoil which was the entire cause but more a problem with not seeing the proper sight picture when my mind wanted to pull the trigger. I did not hunt for four or five years. Just by chance this was about the time the State released wild turkeys on my land with out telling me. My quail restoration, which had taken 20 years and almost six figures, collapsed in less than two years. I went from 13-20 coveys of birds every year, across four separate farms, to one or two in even the best years. My flinch for the most part never returned and neither have the quail.

Release triggers are easier than pull triggers for me. I can shoot pull triggers, but I do flinch on occasion. I flinch rarely (less) with a release. I’m talking clays in terms of RT. I hunt with pull triggers. It’s easy to go back and forth, just as easy as going from a DT to a ST. It just takes some familiarity. Perazzi MX-8 guns make it easy to pop triggers in and out. There’s a difference with release triggers too. Some are way more smooth than others. Flinching is a complex thing. I have some eye disease problems and I’m sure my flinch is a ‘visual’ flinch more related to what my brain perceived (or didn’t perceive) as a result of the vision. Recoil may play some role, I’m not sure. However, when I was an avid skeet shooter in my youth, I shot mainly .410 to practice. When I got older, I flinched with .410 with pull triggers. I couldn’t even pull the trigger sometimes. So, does recoil have anything to do with my flinch? A release has solved most of that for me. I have a friend who is an excellent sporting shot who shoots a release. He flinches so bad he can’t even set the release trigger at times. It’s a bizarre phenomenon. Doctors call it a dystonia. My bud now sets a release with his 3rd (middle) finger and is again having more success. It’s all very odd. Don Currie, chief NSCA instructor calls release triggers a ‘gimmick’ or he did at least on a podcast. I beg to differ. Not all of the thousands of Trapshooters who shoot a release can be wrong??

As one who also battled a flinch I can relate to a lot of what you went through, Jon. I've never shot skeet or trap much. Could probably count the total rounds of both combined on my fingers and toes. However, my competitive sporting clays shooting has spanned some 20+ years, I guess. I worked hard at improving, and did. But, I soon developed a flinch that manifested itself in an inability to pull the trigger when my conscious thought wanted to. It was as though there was a short circuit between my brain and my trigger finger.

I was flabbergasted, and embarrassed, at such a thing happening to me. After all, I had shot doves since I was 8 years old and had never known such a thing. I developed the ability to recover from it and break the bird extremely late, often almost on the ground, over half the times I flinched, which at it's worst would be 8-9 times per round of 100. I knew in my mind it wasn't recoil, as I was shooting light 1 oz. loads in an 8 lb. + gun, a 32" Valmet 412ST. It had a trigger that drove me nuts, however, with much slack that had to be taken up before it would break. That was a terrible distraction to me and I tried to have it "fixed", to no avail. But, my flinches never followed me into the field ........... never. I began to reason out what you said, that my mind was not accepting the sight picture that my eyes saw as being right, and wouldn't pull the trigger.

A couple of things happened about that time that effected a change in my flinch. I began shooting a buddy's Beretta 682, which I loved shooting, and which had a great trigger. I also switched from 1 oz. loads to 1 1/8 oz., with an associated slight increase in recoil. The flinch suddenly got much better. Most of my problem seemed to be with the distraction of the sloppy trigger (I had been a competitive rifle and pistol shooter most of my adult life, and obsessed over good triggers). Another thing that helped was to start "slapping" the trigger, as opposed to just pulling it. This was at the suggestion of a good friend I shot with regularly who suggested it. These things helped tremendously, proving that it was not recoil related because of the increase in recoil from the new loads. When I started shooting the MX8, with it's fabulous trigger, it got even better. I punched into M class at the US Open in 2010, which had been a goal of mine.

The old flinch rears it's ugly head occasionally, still, though it's 99.5% gone. It still surprises me maybe once every 200-300 targets at sporting. Happened yesterday in a little registered shoot at Pinetucky, and cost me a bird. Though I shot pretty well, finishing with a 95 X 100, that flinch cost me one. My shooting buddy would have beat me anyway, as he smoked his way through the course with a 97 X 100. I subtly remind him when he beats me that he does so shooting lots of targets with his -.005" to +.010" screw-in chokes, while I shoot everything with fixed .020"s in both barrels. He then reminds me that my choice of tight chokes all the time is my decision, and that I'm hardheaded for doing so. All in good fun.

Thanks for relating your struggles with the flinch. It is interesting all that you tried to get rid of it, and how it finally got better. I have empathy for someone when I see them flinching badly shooting a shotgun. It is a terrible malady. I admire you for having had the determination to go to the off hand to try to rid yourself of it. I stand in awe of you and Ted, and others who have successfully done so. I cannot imagine what a hard thing it would be for me.

Best, SRH

buzz, read your above post after posting mine. Currie needs to tell Jon Kruger that a release trigger is a gimmick. I'd like to be a fly on the wall and hear Jon's reply when he did. I once asked Jon if he would help me with my flinch. He replied "Who the hell is going to help me with mine?!!" He went to the release a few years later and says he should have done so many years earlier. Jon has even another unusual way of using his, he doesn't even set the release until he sees the bird.

You have nailed exactly what I am going through. Every fiber of my being SCREAMS at me to change hands, the recoil seems more stout, and my hand hurts when it is all over, especially my middle finger. It is a perceived recoil thing, as there is no bruising on my right shoulder, what the gun is generating just bothers me more on the right shoulder. I never dealt with that before shooting left handed, although, I did shy away from 3” and big numbers ammunition due to recoil.

Might go run 25 today, I’m thinking more rounds spread out is better than running 50-100 and not shooting again until the next weekend.

Hoping for better.

Best,
Ted

I am cross eye dominant (left hand right eye) and didn’t get it diagnosed until my mid 30s. Shot sporadically until the last few years and shooting right handed is now second nature. I found I had to learn good habits and ditch the bad. I used to cant my head onto the stock in a vain attempt to line up my eyes; now shooting right handed my eye is my rear sight and I can bring the stock to my face without unnecessary movement of my head. Keep at it Ted, I think the change is well worth it. Lots of gun mounts at home helped me get more comfortable with the switch.

I am going to practice my mount at home. I feel silly doing it, but, many have reported that it helps.
The change should be well worth it, true enough, but, from where I stand today, it isn’t optional. I can’t see well enough from my left eye to shoot with it anymore. If I want to shoot a shotgun, or, a rifle, it will have to be right handed.

Best,
Ted

I tried a release trigger. God bless those who like them. I was not one of them. The worst one I borrowed was a release trigger which had been setup as release on the first shot and non release on the second shot. To me that was the worst of both worlds. It was a trap shooter who had that setup, he said for trap doubles. I gave it back after a single round. A release trigger to me was not something I was happy using because it went against decades of gun safety that I had learned.

Stan, bad triggers are not to be put up with. But my triggers were never the real problem. I had 3200's, K-32, K-80, Perazzi, Kolars, plus an assortment of 1100's, 11-87, Model 12 and 42's. A couple had heavy triggers. If the triggers were not great when I started out I had a great trigger man near me. He knew more about triggers than I will ever understand. Shame cancer took him early. He could make a trigger glass smooth and crisp with what ever pull weight you wanted. He did it for my with hand guns, shot guns and rifles.

My flinch, I think was a problem when I did not see the proper sight picture, when I was ready to pull the trigger. Recoil was not a problem because I wen to shooting .410 only. It became a muscle memory problem, with the flinch a condition muscle response to a visual picture. Sounds more complex than it is really. I had perfected my flinch by the time I figured out why I was flinching. That is why learning how to shoot left handed did not have the same muscle memory and hence no flinch problem. After not shooting right handed for several years the muscle memory was almost completely forgotten or unlearned. It has not returned for the most part. I hope it never does.

Just a thought, but consider eye exercises to go along with it. A good thirty years ago, I used a book to do tracking and dominant eye exercises at a time when I did a good bit of trap shooting. I still keep the basic principals in mind and not just for shooting. I have regular thought of seeing if there is updated info on the subject and revisit some of the exercises. Again, just a thought.

Here 'ya go craig
https://philkiner.cinevee.com/eye-improvement-program

Thanks much Doc Drew. The book I have is "An Insight to Sports", which I believe you have also mentioned in recent years. I saw a little clip of that Kiner video and I'd bet it would really help on a big screen. The thing I'd wonder about is if it can quite recreated the depth perception exercises of physical objects at various distances, but good stuff none the less.

I have battled strong left eye dominance and right hand shooting for 30 years but switching to left hand shooting is just not going to happen; my left hand has the coordination of a club. I have tried all the usual remedies: closing the left eye, winking before pulling the trigger, tape, vaseline, but have always been a poor shot. I recently found a YouTube video by Nick Penn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFUHXrMWUXo who insists that the whole cross dominance issue is unfounded and the brain will compensate if you keep both open and focus on the target; he demonstrates with new shooters but doesn't go into much detail.

A few weeks ago I tried SC with both eye open and was amazed to find that I immediately hit better than with the left eye occluded. I need a lot more practice, but after a few range sessions I am pretty convinced that this will work for me, I think perhaps because my stronger left eye makes it easier to maintain hard focus on the bird. Even with glasses, my left eye has better acuity than my right, and now for the first time I can see the rings on the clay and distinguish front from back. Thus far it is working well with most shots; I am learning to trust my eyes even though things still look a bit wonky out there and for the most part I am delighted and optimistic.

I tried, many times, to shoot with both eyes open, over the years. I saw the side of the barrel. Trying it, now, the difference in vision between the two eyes is so great that I see 3 or 4 barrels, and at least one of them is blurry.
There is a constant, floating blur in the left eye since the retina reattachment. But, I do know I tried that enough times over the years that it wasn’t going to work for me. Some people are strongly left or right handed, some are ambidextrous, and perhaps that happens with eye dominance, as well.

Best,
Ted

I’m sorry to hear about your eye problem Ted. A similar scenario would be devastating for me since competition sporting clays is a very big part of my life. Switching shoulders will not be easy, but I think you can do it if you want to shoot, and shoot well bad enough. Perseverance will pay off. Practicing your gun mount at home is not a silly thing and hundreds of times will likely not be enough imho. I recommend you practice your gun mount at home thousands and thousands of times. ...and, it’s free to do and without cost. Only perseverance will lead to perfection for such an undertaking. Be patient with yourself and keep at it, and don’t forget about gun fit issues.

Keep working it Ted, Grousemas is almost upon us. I have always struggled with the left-handed/right-eye dominant thing until....lazer eye surgery in 2001 when I went from 20/400 to 20/15. I threw away my glasses and never looked back. I have also noticed since then that my eye dominance has become far-less pronounced. The minute I mount a doublegun, my left eye now takes over. Now... if I could just figure out how to read w/o holding the paper at arms length?

Good results, Lloyd. Yes, the season is on my mind.



Funny little cushion, installed on the 20 gauge mule that is my victim for the retraining. It came on a Darne R17 3” magnum that was the demonstrator gun for guys that showed up, wanting to handle or shoot one. Since the gun range is right down the street, guys that did that got a few rounds of skeet, trap, or sporting clays on the house for their efforts. But, most complained about the little cushion, and, I took it off, and forgot about it, until a week or so past. It came on a magnum French gun, and the magnum Italian gun is curvy where the French gun was straight, so, it fits differently, but, it fits.

No bruise on the finger. My score went down from last week. But, the good news is Chris is shooting high teens, about his 5th and 6th rounds today, and he beat the old man.

That isn’t saying much at the moment, but, it was a good day for him, all the same.

Best,
Ted

"now for the first time I can see the rings on the clay and distinguish front from back."

Congratulations! You are getting there!

This reminds me of the first time that I was "ON" from the high house shooting clays international style.
The bird seemed to stop mid range and then shatter into dust!
Damn, what a great feeling! Did not miss a bird the rest of that round; too bad that is not always the case.

Did not miss the bird the rest of that round. Tell us about the rest of your shooting life. I am an International Skeet shooter and don't quite follow your instruction.

I practice hard eye focus while driving around town and counting the nuts and bolts on street signs. No wrecks yet and I think it's helped my shooting...Geo

Both of the autoloaders here, got the safeties switched back to right hand.
An A5 12 and a Stupid Black Eagle. The kid and I will run them, soon enough.
I think that 3” King’s Ferry Ithaca 12 might go back to right hand safety, also. Heavy little pig with the 30” tube.
Might as well try everything. The kid is in love with his Silver Snipe 12.

Best,
Ted

Kid and I went out today, just one round, as it was about 90 degrees, and humid. I used the A5 my Dad bought when he made Sargeant, circa 1952. The gun was wearing a 26” Hastings barrel with a modified choke. I have three barrels for that gun.
It seems a bit easier to shoot a gun with a single barrel sticking up. Dad thought he needed a mid rib on everything, this one is no exception, and I dropped a few after I realized it was there and was distracted by it. I shot 18. I beat Chris, but, only by 1. I corrected him a few times, lifting his head at the shot, his Achilles heel of late.
The owner of the club (A very old friend) drove out on his golf cart, and asked that I please come by for lunch one day, soon. He is suffering from MS, and doing poorly of late.

My problem is so many peanuts compared to his.

Best,
Ted

Hey Ted, a small thing that helped with my boy in the past was have him keep tracking the clay on a miss or chip to the ground. Tried to get him thinking the shot wasn't over at the bang, and I think I was seeing a little bit of flinch creeping in? There are probably real shooting coaches that feel very differently, but it seemed to help in an informal way. Enjoy the lunch.

Craig,
Thanks. I’ll give that a try. He has just started shooting, has less than a dozen rounds under his belt, but, anything that helps, well, helps.

Rick is a good guy. I remember being a kid, shooting with my Dad at the same club, and Rick working for his future father-in-law. He and his bride, and kids, and grandkids have done a great job with the club, in spite of leftist city administration trying for decades to put them out of business. The wringing of hands and clutching of pearls over the stuff that has never happened is nauseating.

Best,
Ted

Heat makes MS worse. Hope you get a cool spell soon.

I actually knew that, believe it or not. I am aquatinted with a few sufferers.

But for the grace of God, go I....

Best,
Ted

Alright then...