What exactly is it? There is so many opinions on the net it’s hard to sort out. Can this choke be cut in a standard barrel or is it a part of the manufacturing process? Know of anyone who can cut it?

https://shotgunreport.com/2016/03/09/skeet-chokes/

Skeets Gun Shop

Gun shop in the Woodall, Oklahoma

Address: 14007 US-62, Tahlequah, OK 74464

Phone: (918) 456-4749

Rick, I understand your curiosity, but does it really matter what WS1 is? You can order a choke cut to any dimension there is, within .001". What it is called (WS1, or SK1 and SK2) is way secondary to what the choke actually does.

I can attest to Dean's capabilities and work, at Skeet's Gun Shop. First rate, and you don't have to wait forever on it.

SRH

No, not really but curiosity has got me!

In my experience Winchester's WS-1 is about .005" constriction an inch and a quarter from the muzzle and then a flare of about .010" to the muzzle. Back in the 1930s Savage's Skeet Cylinder in the right barrels of their Ansley H. Fox Skeet & Upland Game Guns and Remington's SKEET choke were quite similar.

Dave, if I understand you, according to your measurements, the WS1 flares (opens) .010" from a measurement of .005". That would make the measurement at the muzzle -.005", or .005" more open than cylinder, correct?

Do I understand you correctly?

SRH

One of my books has a drawing of the WS1 and WS2 chokes. Memory is off and the books are 100 miles away right now. Probably one of the Model 12 books.

WS1 is a converging/diverging nozzle.

Mine is actually .008" constriction, but they apparently average less.

It then bells out past bore diameter.

Beretta makes their skeet chokes this way also, at least in Mobil Choke and Optima.

It's a very effective choke for skeet.

WS2 is just a light modified, it's too tight for the second shot at skeet doubles except from 4, where it's perfect.

Mine too. One thing I learned from my WRA library is that both the WS-1 and WS-2 chokes were machined on a 17 ft. radius. I have 2 older M12's that have "uncommon" factory chokes- (1) a 1939 era M12 field grade 28 ga. 28" solid rib choked WS-2, and a 1949 era Pigeon Grade Trap gun 30" Ventilated rib (duckbilled) and it is marked Imp. Mod. instead of the more commonly found Full choke.

Best way to determine the choke(s) in your shotgun is to pattern test it with the actual loads you plan to shoot- IMO RWTF.

The Model 21 would be a lot better Skeet Gun if it was WS-1 in both barrels. I have seen one so marked. WS-2 is really way too tight for NSSA Skeet. In my 1953 vintage 12-gauge Model 21 Skeet Gun the WS-2 choke measures .015".

I misspoke in my earlier post. That inch and a quarter flare is in the Skeet Cylinder barrels of my Savage-era Ansley H. Fox Skeet & Upland Game Guns. The flare is nearly twice as long in my 12-gauge Model 21.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=401138 with Bro. Walter's Ithaca Skeet engineering drawing

Capt. E.C. Crossman “Skeet Gun Patterns” in August 1936 Hunting & Fishing
He formerly believed…“the proper boring for a double 12 Skeet gun consisted of an improved cylinder right for Station 8 and incomers, and a much tighter tube on the left for the outgoers and all singles except Station 8; such a boring as improved modified or the famous Winchester No. 2 Skeet, or in barrel measurements, around .015”.”
But now feels “the Winchester No. 2 Skeet boring is too tight…” and “improved cylinder or No. 1 boring is both barrels seems about the right dope.”
He went on to criticize the Cutts spreader tube on single barrel guns for skeet, but did not define the tube diameter.
He mentioned a Fox with .011” left and a Model 32 Remington “bored for skeet” lower barrel .012”.
“Improved cylinder is the greatest degree to which a plain barrel should be opened, this being not less than .004”.
The finest example of this at present is the Winchester No. 1 Skeet boring, which has about .004 choke at a point 3” from the muzzle. The muzzle section then becomes larger…until finally the barrel at the muzzle is about …0.750” instead of the normal 0.730” of the 12. This is a relieved muzzle or bell muzzle, originated by Ithaca years ago.”

I have two WS-1 chokes, both in M12s. One has a 0.007 constriction and the other 0.010. Kind of tight to my mind. And then there's the bell.

Keep in mind that these chokes are 80+ year-old technology designed to work with cardboard and fiber wads on either end of the shot column. My understanding of the bell is that it allowed gas to bypass the shot column, thereby taking pressure off the wad column so that it would not blow through the pattern. One-piece plastic wads would make all that superfluous today.

I still think they're neat. I can be lazy about cleaning the barrel and the muzzle will still look clean, always void of that nasty plastic and lead striping.

The 3-10-39 Ithaca bore and choke drawing on the linked thread is gone due to the Photobucket hostage taking a few years ago, so here it is from Imgur --



and for comparison the 7-8-34 Choke For Skeet Gun drawing --



My Ithaca made doubles with S and S choke markings are --

Fully optioned 12-gauge No. 4E .009" right and .016" left.

Lefever A-Grade 20-gauge .008" right and .014" left.

Hard to say what may have been done to chokes in these old doubles since they were built 80 to 130 years ago, but I'm pretty sure choke wasn't added.

Ithaca Gun Co. ran this ad about nine years before they actually cataloged a Skeet Gun --



Modified and full for Skeet or the uplands?!?

I hope Ithaca fired their ad manager after that blunder....


Thanks very much Researcher, for those drawings.

In the Feb. 1926 issue of "National Sportsman", a $100 prize was offered for the best name for William Harnden Foster's "shooting around the clock". The May 1926 issue announced the winner, Mrs. Gertrude Hurbutt of Dayton, Montana, and the new name "skeet" from an old Scandinavian word for shoot (Norwegian for shoot is "skyte").
Dave's ad appeared in the July 1926 "National Sportsman".
Fast work by Ithaca!

Hunter Arms did not get their "Skeet Upland Special" out until June 1928



In the Hunter Arms 1929 catalog, the “Upland” was gone and the “Skeet Special” was shown with a straight grip stock, checkered wood butt, “Skeet Choke No. 1 right and No. 2 left,” and “Streamline Beaver Tail Forend,” at a price of $47; $92 with Hunter One-Trigger and Automatic Ejectors.
I’ve seen no Hunter Arms literature or advertisements explaining the No. 1 & No. 2 chokes. Later catalog listings stated “bored to order from full to cylinder”.

The flare on the end of a WS-1 barrel makes it an accident waiting to happen. I have owned several Model 21 skeet guns with a flat spot on the right side of the WS-1 barrel, one that got the flat spot sitting in a trunk case. I am very careful with my WS-1 barrels, especially in the field. Thanks for all of the interesting charts and drawings.