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Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:41 AM
I know you guys love these things! According to the owner, the shotgun has no markings on the barrels or the sides of the receiver. The only markings are on the bottoms of the barrels and the flats. Hopefully the pictures will post.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:55 AM
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:56 AM
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:57 AM
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:58 AM
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 02:00 AM
Alan, to be of any help we need much larger and crisper pictures. The ones you posted are of no help.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 02:34 AM
Okay. I'll try again. I can't take responsibility for the pictures. The owner of this shotgun lives in Finland. I'll see if he can send me some different pictures.

Thanks. I'll try to post them in a different way.

Alan
Posted By: redoak Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 02:59 AM
The concave ends of the pins make me think that it may be Belgian.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 03:29 AM
It has some Francotte features but no markings. I am not even close to good enough to decipher the stampfest on the the barrel bottoms and flats.

Alan
Posted By: Tamid Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 04:05 AM
From the proofs I would say French and from the engraving I would say definitely not Belgium. A French guild gun perhaps.
Posted By: DmColonial Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 04:08 AM
You can't see the Belgian Proofs?????
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 12:26 PM


The gauge is in a rhombus / diamond so that was prior to the Omega or Horseshoe. That load-date, along with the Diamter data, makes it very date specific.

3.60 Grammes Powder

36 Grammes Lead


Too the word for Safe(Sűr?) points to an inland offering.



Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 12:51 PM
The Max. load markings were used 1897-1903; 36 grams or slightly > 1 1/4 oz. lead and 36 grains of Smokeless Powder.
Please ask your friend if the Smokeless Proof stylized lion is over P.V., E.C., SCH or possibly E.C. No. 3
The original “Schultze” & “E.C.” No. 1 Bulk Smokeless were 14 grains/drachm.
“New Schultze”, New “E.C.(Improved) No. 2” Bulk Smokeless were 12 grains/dram, or 36 grains = 3 Dr.Eq.
Walsrode Gray, "E.C." No. 3 & Mullerite No. 2 were 11 grains/dram or 33 grains = 3 Dr. Eq.
SO if proved for "E.C." No. 2 the max. load would be 1 1/4 oz. with 3 Dr.Eq.
If proved for "E.C. No. 3" the max. load would be 3 1/4 Dr.Eq.

It has 2 1/2" chambers.

The bore is 18.3 = a tight .720". The L barrel muzzle constriction is 17.4 = .685" = .035" choke.
I can't read the R mark in mm.

The P1KG3... is the barrel weight at the time of proof. If > 3% less now it is considered out of proof.

The action flats might have a maker's mark.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:14 PM
Hause were the units of the Belgians Grains or Grams?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:34 PM
I see, Grammes. There is what looks to be a powder type stamp ahead of the >>Max<< stamp?

Sideclips(Purdey Wings) point to a stout load also.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:35 PM
Usually grams. Here is a 20g; 1.68 grams "poudre" = 26 grains of a 33 grain bulk powder = 2 1/4 Dram Equivalent; 21 grams "plombs" = 3/4 oz. shot



A 12g Manufacture Liegeoise likely proved with Mullerite for a service load of 2.70 grams = 41.67 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. (42 grains) "E.C." No. 1 or "Schultze" with 36 grams = 1 1/4 oz. shot



BUT here is a 12g S. Bougnet for William Read with a Max. service load of 33 grains of "E.C." No. 3 = 3 Dram, with 1 1/8 oz. shot.



and a Demoulin Frčres & Cie 16g in 28 grains = 2 1/2 Dr.Eq. and 7/8 oz.


Posted By: ellenbr Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 01:40 PM
Yeah, the stamp is that of a Rampant Lion over EC(or SCH) just before the MAX & Load Data.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ed good Re: Shotgun Identification - 10/16/20 02:34 PM
le fran cee?
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