Hello All,

It has been some time!

Trust you are all right and taking due care!

I have been presented with a 1952 vintage Beretta AS-20-E.

It has 70cm (27.56") barrels and a straight stock. Apparently choked very tight.
It weighs 2.526kg (5.569lbs).

I would appreciate any and all information and sage feedback.

Warmest regards,

Jay Cee

P.S.: Alas, I have lost my ability to post photos.

Good to see you posting, Jay Cee. If you can email the photos to me, I’ll see to it they are up on the board for you.

tedjs@usfamily.net

Those were nice guns. I thought I was in the market for an ASEL a few years back, but, they turned out to be really light, few and far between, mostly choked really tight, and a lot of money for what they were, and what I would have used it for.

Best,
Ted

I’ve helped out a friend purchase 2 ASEL 20’s. I found them, vetted em, and even did the haggling. They are spectacular guns. Light they are....finished extremely well (inside & out) balanced perfectly and are about the trimmest o/u guns I’ve ever handled. The engraving, especially the full coverage rose bouquet is stunning. My favorite version is the straight grip, solid rib double trigger versions....uber sexy. 10 years ago, you could find a pretty decent model/example sub gauge in the mid 3 to 4K range.....not anymore. Prices have gone bananas on these guns here in the States.
What you get for that money is a damn near perfectly machined action, lots of hours of hand finishing, bohler-antinit barrels, pretty decent wood and one hell of a shotgun to kill birds with. You’d be extremely hard pressed to find a modern gun that checks all those boxes in today’s world without going into the $15 to 20k range.

The ASEL guns were made in the Beretta custom shop alongside the SO sidelock guns. Very excellent guns, like Dustin said. The 28” ASEL guns are usually M/F or even tighter. I wonder if opening them up to IC/M would kill collector value?....probably so since they have choke markings stamped on the barrels. They made a higher grade, the ASEELL which is more ornate and even more rare.

The gun:













A guy could do much worse.

I handled two 20 gauge ASEL guns, and I don’t believe either gun was more than 5 1/2 lbs. They felt wonderful in hand, but, I already knew I would have problems shooting them well at such light weight.
Today I also know the recoil would have been a problem for me.

Best,
Ted

That’s a super nice gun. As you mentioned that’s an AS20E with border engraving as opposed to an AS20EL with more full coverage engraving. A great find you have there. I’d love to have that gun for Grouse with more open chokes. George Caswell of Champlin Arms in Enid, OK, an expert of the highest degree on sporting arms, told me he was personally told by Mr. Beretta the original AS guns were of the highest quality save their sidelock guns and would not be reproduced at their price point ever again.

If this is a 28" or longer barrel gun with solid rib and double triggers and no cracks in the wood, you have hit the jackpot and I would love to own it.

Hello Bill,

It does have solid ribs, impeccable wood, two triggers but barrels "only" measure
70cm or 27.56", so... ;-)

Best regards,

Jay Cee

Like I said, you could do much worse. I think the barrels were 25-26” on both of the guns I handled. They were both ASEL versions, I might have bought one if they were a plainer, less costly version.
Minnesota grouse woods are not kind to pretty guns.

Best,
Ted

70cm is the longest bbl.'s originally fitted to those guns. And at one time they were the smallest framed 20 ga. O/U's made. Fun guns in that respect, but as Ted mentions, not so much for extended shooting.. but a delight to carry.

Hope it provides you w/much pleasure, JC. They were never common guns even when Beretta was making them. I want to say they stopped making them around 1964, but as Russ used to say, I could be wrong.

Thank you for all the feedback, I did not expect less from the Council of Wise Men!

I should share with you what happened when I shot it for the first time last week;

It had been some time since I had done any shooting with my Idéal (16ga.) because I was
getting a pounding that left me with a big headache. A couple of years ago I was diagnosed
with a rather odd condition called Idiopathic Hypertrophic Pachymeningitis -I
know, it took me some time to learn the name- and although I am really well, I am more
sensitive to recoil. Considering the weight of the Beretta it was with some trepidation that I faced my trial.
Fittingly I used some Italian shells (CIP specs) with 24grams of shot (app. 7/8oz).
I did not feel the first shot and I dusted the clay pigeon! No recoil! I was really astounded!
I suppose I mounted it properlyly and she fits me.
Your comments on this will also be appreciated.

Sorry, rather long winded of me.

Regards and thank you All again.

JC

Yup, as the other poster said, your barrels are about as long as they made for the 20 gauge ASE. You lucked out. Let us know when you're tired of it.

JayCee; What’s the LOP on your double trigger gun from the front trigger? I’ve got a DT ASEL gun and it’s short...14 1/4” LOP from front trigger to a checkered butt. I’m wondering if they were all short like the Japanese made Browning sidelock SxS guns which were all 14 1/4”?? Anybody know?

Buzz,
I don’t know what length the guns were stocked at, but, these were high grade production guns, typically bought off the rack. In that era, it was very unusual for an adult male to buy a 20 gauge gun. The 20s were likely aimed at a young, female, or, physically small or maybe handicapped clientele.

I do believe it was possible to order these as you wished, but, few did. They went to a good outfitter, and bought a gun.

Best,
Ted

Hello Buzz,

Mine's LOP is like yours. A bit short for me, but I shot it all right.

Best,

JC

I am sure someone can interpret the choking on the Beretta that I believe is very tight:

https://ibb.co/y6tqLwk

Early thanks,

JC
P.S.: my effort at posting photo failed miserably. Will keep on trying.jc

Chokes:



Got it!

And could cosmetics be improved? How?

The barrels and chokes are tight. The barrel diameter is 15.8 mm = .622 inches. The number closer to the breech is subtracted from the diameter. 15.8 - 15 = 0.8 mm or .031 inches for the top barrel and 0.6 mm or .024" for the bottom barrel. Barrel weight is 1.140 kilograms = 2.51 lbs.

Ken

The barrels on my 20 gauge ASEL are marked 15.9/15.4 and 15.9/15.7. The barrels are 28".

Ken

It looks as if the through bolt got loose at some time and the buttstock shifted upwards, causing gaps in the inletting. The wood is proud at the top and shy at the bottom. Unless ............ somebody did that intentionally to reduce the drop. I seriously doubt that, but you never know. Properly re-inletting the head of the stock would help the looks of that a whole lot.

How deep are the discolored areas on the action panel? Would they be pits?

SRH

I bet the camera magnified the wood to metal and the patina marks. im guessing it’s not as bad in person as the receivers are diminutive to the naked eye but look huge in those photos. Stan, these guns with 28 in are almost always choked tight. That brings spreaders to mind. What’s the best 20 ga spreader?

I've not found a spreader in 20 ga. that I could recommend, buzz. If you had asked about a 12 I would say the Fiocchi Interceptor unhesitatingly. But alas, they do not list them in any other gauge.

RST has 20 ga. spreaders but at $16 a box I'd have to look long and hard elsewhere before ordering them. If I were to try reloading some I'd start with this wad from Ballistic Products. It is very similar to the wad in the Fiocchi 12 ga. spreaders I use so much for sporting. Has the X post in the center. In fact, I may order a bag and load some up just to see. I could use some good 20 ga. spreaders, too.

Good luck, SRH

Thx Stan. I may have to reload some too. $16/box ....ouch. I hate to open my gun up. I don’t know?? I’ve thought about it, but just can’t bring myself to do it on one of these fine little guns. I’m not sure why they choked them all so tight??

With a gun that has collector value like yours I'd be hesitant, too. OTOH, I just had Dean Harris open my 20 ga. Sterly Ejector to .006" and .016". for quail and woodcock. But then, Sterlys are not scarce. And, if I shoot it well I have further plans for customizing it.

Come to think of it, if I'm gonna reload some spreader 20s I'd best get crackin'. Quail and woodcock seasons aren't far away.

SRH

Stan,

It is as Buzz says, everything has been magnified. The discolored areas are more blemishes, not pits. I suppose you could call it patina on a not very well cared gun ;-)
Suppose I should leave it alone.

JC

And considering the constrictions my gun has 3/4 and Full choke.
(No wonder when I hit the clays -alas which is not often- they turn to dust).

JC

I`d get the chokes altered to what you want by a proven smith and enjoy it to its max for what you want!!! To pot with the next man down the line.....

JC,

You could try some Flitz on the blemishes. You should probably try a small area to see if the blemishes will be affected. I agree with Imperdix, find a good smith to open the chokes up otherwise you won't use the gun that much.

Ken

About the chokes, unless you are shooting quail, learn to shoot. About the fit at the head of the stock, find a very talented stock person to refit it.

Or woodcock, or Ruffed Grouse, or early season pheasants, or put and take pheasants, or skeet.

Yea, show me your talents shooting woodcock at 20 yards with a full choke 20. Love to see that demonstration. Perhaps you can teach us all how to do that?



Best,
Ted

What an ignorant and dickish comment, “learn to shoot”. WTF. More trash advice from our resident “I was ready to write the check” guy. Never mind him JC....it’s your gun, you do whatever your heart desires to it to make it work for YOU.

Great posts guys!

I'll heed Bill's advise :-)

I'll try "polishing" softly with some mild abrasive and see what happens.

Some friends are about to get some reamers (any recommendations) and I think I'll open the bottom barrel.
Or maybe both (1/4 and 3/4).

BTW my tubes are not Böhler Antinit, they are Special Chrome Moly Steel. And the
bores are mirror bright and totally unblemished.

Again thanks for the amusing and informative posts!

JC

JC,

I don't think Beretta started using the Bohler barrels until around 1958 or 1959. What date was you gun manufactured?

Ken

Hello Ken,

1952.

JC

Have an older AS20E that has a case hardened frame. Must have been built for Europe because it has sling swivels. English stock. Barrels are short (slightly less than 26"). My favorite barrel length is 26" so it works great for me. Don't know whether slightly less than 26" was a standard European length. Regardless, I like it. Stands out in a crowd. Congrats on your gun. Very cool.

Sorry I offended, but I have an idea that would work for me. 28 gauge Briley tubes would be more expensive than drilling out the chokes. However then you have a tight choked 20 when you need it. Briley won't put screw chokes in your 28 gauge tubes, but may be able to get you a little choke. I had a great ASEL 12 made with true 28" barrels from Abercrombie and Fitch. I traded it off when I bought a nice SO2 and didn't think I needed two light 12 gauge Berettas. I would trade the SO2 for the ASEL any day, now.