Just purchase this Remington 1894 with fluid steel barrels, no other marks but these.
What kind of steel could this be?
Gun is on the way but I have lots of pics. No other script on top other than Remington arms co...

Here you go, mostly courtesy of Researcher
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=561831

Ordnance steel was introduced in 1897 and was available for an extra $10 on the BE.

Anybody know what all these marks represent?
I know about pattern count numbers but what about others.
Like b with star and odd RPR ( faint) looking mark.
F?
It’s an extractor B grade.

A lot of them are manufacturer codes that have been lost to time.

Terry Deem, who wrote all those Remington articles in DGJ, is a member here, maybe he will chime in. Garland Jackson in Ohio is another Remington collector-researcher. Have you looked at the Remington book?

Ordered the book. Will get better pics soon. Somebody could have blued them along time ago but gun looks original screws aren’t damaged.

I’ve had the pleasure of speaking on the phone with all three, Terry, Garland and Charles Semmer. All three were generous with their time and knowledge. Very helpful.

I have six 1894s, and they normally have the screws timed. Whom ever loosened them at one time did use the correct screwdriver. Maybe if you switched them they'd line up. The barrel steel question could be answered by the year of manufacture according to Drew's reference thread. I don't have my Summers book handy to check year of manufacture - maybe someone else could help out.

I have six 1894s, and they normally have the screws timed. Whom ever loosened them at one time did use the correct screwdriver. Maybe if you switched them they'd line up. The barrel steel question could be answered by the year of manufacture according to Drew's reference thread. I don't have my Sumers book handy to check year of manufacture - maybe someone else could help out.

I guess if Remington didn’t blue the flats and lumps then it’s been reblued.
I will look for original gun pics. Can do vinegar thing when it arrives.Sorry I don’t really know anything about Remingtons.
Thought it would be a good time to pick one up and learn, if it’s fluid steel I will hunt with it, if Damascus probably shoot a little and keep it over fireplace after barrels are refinished. Thanks

According to the serial number chronology Charles Semmer produced for his book, 114872 would be an 1899 vintage gun. Two types of steel barrels were introduced for the Remington Hammerless Double in Remington Arms Co,'s April 1897 catalog. "Ordnance" Steel barrels cost $15 extra on A- and B-quality guns. "Remington" Steel barrels were also offered on the A-quality guns at the same price as their regular two-stripe Damascus barrels. On A- and B-quality guns the word ORDNANCE is roll-stamped on the tops of the barrels.



On higher grades, C-quality and on up, the word ORDNANCE is normally engraved with the legend on the top of the barrels.

I just went through all the pictures of the barrel marks on Remington Hammerless Doubles that I have saved and this gun is the first I have seen with this star --



Don't see it pictured in Semmer's book either.

I think this is Dave's 1898 catalog page, with Remington (Decarbonized) Steel and Ordnance offered on the A grade; only Ordnance on the B

Barrels looked good in pic even had ancient looking ivory bead .



One little mark in pic where ordnance should be but could be E. Will seen soon

They are very nice shotguns.

Unless the barrels are damaged, ammunition is readily available, and there is no real reason to not enjoy the shotgun in the field. I hunt with mine as often as I care too,

One thing to look for, And I have seen this more than a handful of times, is a crack in the stock near the top strap. Generally easily repaired, but because it seems so common, look closely and proceed cautiously.

Thanks guys I will find out for sure on barrels this week and post better pics.

Gun came in today, barrels are huge and Damascus 3 Crolle. Never seen barrels measure roughly .170 at end of forcing cone and .081 at 10” from breach . But these are the first Damascus I have ever measured or owned. Very few shallow pits, bore .731 chamber 2 5/8, 30” long chokes .024/.034.
Wood is really nice, even but plate original, 3 screws a little buggered, not bad for 121-122 years old.
I do have 5 boxes of some 1 1/8” Italian made Navy arms black powder 2 5/8 7 1/2s I bought for 5.00 a box 30 years ago
Do these measurements sound like original?
Need barrels refinished, who is the guy to get the black/white ( or dark grey/ light grey) look?

I have a B grade Rem 1894 with Damascus barrels. MBWT was measured in the .058 vicinity for both barrels. While I haven't measured them, I do have a beautiful set of Pieper Damascus barrels that are probably in the same range as yours....

Here's a pic of the Remington barrels after refinishing:



And the rest of the gun:


Great, well made guns.

Beautiful!
I was running barrel thickness measurements with barlows formula at 40000 tensile strength I think I will have these honed and be super safe shooting low pressure shells under 7k. Actually safer than some of my fluid barrels with normal wall thickness. This thing weighs 8lbs but it fits perfect. Need the correct guy for black and white Damascus refinish?

Your gun has 30” barrels? Mine is 7 pounds, 7 oz so could be all that extra weight is in the barrel walls.

I know Terry Deem can do them really nicely but I’m not sure he’s still taking in work.

I can see why guys spend the money on these old Remingtons kinda old fashioned beautiful, Norman Rockwell of the old doubles!

James

What finish is on you B gun?

Cheers,

HI David. Chris did the stock so I don’t know for sure exactly what he used. I just know that on that stock I said no alkanet.

BTW I just today saw your post on the Remington board re this gun from the summer. Wasn’t ignoring you. Just hadn’t been there is ages. And I agree with your comments.

Bachelders in Grand Rapids Mi was, and still is I think doing Damascus barrels. Brad died a year or two ago but I beleive they still do good work. Call 616-459-3636. I have six 1894s, a A, B, and C grade with three F grade trap guns. I shoot three times a week [ different guns ] and shoot my reloads that have up to 8500psi. They're all 2/3/4" shells. The trap guns have steel barrels, the others Damascus. My 73, 82, and 89 are all hammer guns with Damascus barrels. Years back Sherman Bell tested 20 Damascus wallhangers with Remington proof loads [ 18,500psi ] and couldn't blow up any of them. I'm not saying any Damascus gun is safe, that's up to you to decide, but Damascus barreled guns are much safer than many would have you to believe. How many factory loads do you think were shot in it over the years ? Shoot and enjoy it.

Thanks.
Weighed gun for myself today it weighs 8lbs 2.5 ozs. It looks as big as zabala 10ga I used for ducks years ago. I will check out the book, but was there a different frame for 10s? Way out 20 plus inches, barrel walls in the 60 thousands range. Looks like Remington tried to build a Gun to shoot heaviest shells made at the time. 2 5/8 chamber ,LOP is factory 14 5/8”, barrels are 30”.
I’m ok with size and will load some low pressure with PB after barrels are cleaned up and checked out.

Please weigh just your barrels and post. I’m assuming they are 30”. Will do the same with mine. Would be interesting to see the difference.

30 “ barrels

Anybody used these black powder shells?



They are fiocchi, I disassembled them and wrote weight on top of one of the boxes
They used the same bp sporting wad cs12( gualandi wad)I use with some of my loads.

My 1894 G grade 30” Damascus barrels weigh 3 pounds, 10 oz.

A full 6 1/2” oz lighter. That’s a fair bit of extra material on the same length barrels.

That’s 11.5 oz difference, lots of metal. What does your frames width measure?
Mine is like 1.7”.
Guess I will call her Birtha or Biggin.

Oh shit. Read your scale wrong. Haha.

Just checked my Henri Pieper. 4 pounds 3 oz Damascus so in the ballpark of yours but still lighter. And I’ve always thought of those as massive.

Frame width, across the barrel flats is 1.75 according to my tape measure.

Funny I think Pieper made these for Remington. Breach measures 2.4” across.
It’s ok I’m on my second glass of Malbec already.

Pieper owned one of if not the largest Damascus factory in Belgium.

It is interesting how many frame variations Remington had with the 1894/1900 hammerless guns.
I have two light weight (small frame)1900 12 gauges. Very close to a 16 gauge size.
The OP obviously has a Heavy version that would seem to be fairly rare. I do see a B grade 8 pound 12 gauge for sale on GI.

Information on Remington pattern welded tube makers here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DaS94GLQ9b3w9XRU4cBX7M0LUIB_mTDFpvSZxCmUQME/edit

I can't definitively read the faded pattern, but B grades usually had "Three stripe Damascus" (Oxford 4 S.J. or Chain J)



'S.J.' may have been Simonis-Janssen
'J' maybe Janssen
'HP' is often found on Oxford 4 barrels, and is likely Henri Pieper

Yes barrels are same pattern as pic.