New CSMC Superbird target 12 gauge SxS - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com

Has anyone seen one (in person) or even seen a review of one? I stumbled across it on the CSMC website today.

Looks like it starts at $4,950 or so, beaver tail foreend, 8 lbs, single trigger, non-automatic safety, barrel lengths out to 32�, and choke tubes. The ones they have built for sale are over $6,000.

Interesting gun and would maybe consider a long barrel version for sporting clays and duck hunting.

Looks like a stripped down version of the RBL Sporting Edition, without the adjustable comb, the laser engraving and gold inlay clay pigeon and the weight & Balance system. Also only the one recoil pad so no adjustment for length-of-pull.

These??

https://connecticutshotgun.co/superbird/

Ventilated rib, $300 less than solid rib? This is definitely not the light 12.

Target pistol grip with tighter curve, ramped rib. $2000 more than it should be. I would prefer this for half the price:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101506838
Probably more reliable and with better dynamics as well. No brainer...
JR

Originally Posted By: skeettx

These??

https://connecticutshotgun.co/superbird/

The ad copy reads "Hand built by the finest gunsmiths in the world".

They must have been on vacation when my CSMC 21 was built & on sick leave when I sent it back for repair.

Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later .

Originally Posted By: John Roberts

Target pistol grip with tighter curve, ramped rib. $2000 more than it should be. I would prefer this for half the price:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101506838
Probably more reliable and with better dynamics as well. No brainer...
JR

That is the route I went. 2 years ago picked up a 12 ga. 32 and had an adjustable comb cut and an ISIS recoil system installed. I am a high volume shooter and at one time would download the 12 to 7/8 oz. loads. Finally said the heck with that that is what a 20 ga. is for.

It has basically replaced my other target guns since I got it.

Liked it enough that I got a 30" 20 ga. also, I couldn't pass on that grade 4 wood.

May be a 16 ga. 32" in my future. Pacific Sporting Arms is great to deal with. When I talked to John about the 16 ga. he did mention that he could get me a 32" 16 ga. Perazzi but of course it would be an O/U and more than 5 figures.

Originally Posted By: Cold Iron

I am a high volume shooter and at one time would download the 12 to 7/8 oz. loads. Finally said the heck with that that is what a 20 ga. is for.

Amen!

How have the single triggers been on yours? I would really like to be able to shoot one, before "taking the plunge", but that's not likely to happen.

SRH

Originally Posted By: Stan

Amen!

How have the single triggers been on yours? I would really like to be able to shoot one, before "taking the plunge", but that's not likely to happen.

SRH

I thought you just tOok "the plunge"....

There's a bit of difference between a straight grip 30" .410 with double triggers and a pistol grip 32" 12 ga. single trigger target gun. But, you probably wouldn't know about that, seeing as how you had to call me to get my opinion of a BSS awhile back.

How many S x Ss do you own, Frank? Still zero?

Originally Posted By: Stan

Originally Posted By: Cold Iron

I am a high volume shooter and at one time would download the 12 to 7/8 oz. loads. Finally said the heck with that that is what a 20 ga. is for.

Amen!

How have the single triggers been on yours? I would really like to be able to shoot one, before "taking the plunge", but that's not likely to happen.

SRH

They are decent enough but I am not trigger sensitive. Well up to a point, some guns cross that line for me but these have not so no complaints. Crisp enough and not too heavy like many coming out now days.

They are non selective single trigger which turns out to be a non issue. I just shoot a pair of LM or Mod depending on the course if SC and it is one less thing to think about. Have come to actually like it.

The 12 does not have SK or LM options so had Briley bore match a pair of each. The 20 has SK available so I shoot either SK for the obvious venue or Mod for sporting. I'm liking tighter chokes lately especially in the subgages.

Talked to the gunsmith at SKB this summer they also sell the Dickinson guns and have a sporting line too. Although haven't imported any for almost a year now. This coming summer Dickinson is releasing a selective trigger starting with the 12 and subgages to follow hopefully by the fall. At least that was the plan.

Yeah I prefer to shoot a gun first dynamics is such a personal thing but took a chance and it worked out well for me. This summer if you make it up to the Great Northern or Duluth Doublegun shoots I know a guy...

cept, ah seven pound 12 bore pushin 7/8 ounce shot is a lot easier on ones shoulder than ah six pound 20 bore pushin the same shot load...

an ah 7 1/2 pound 28 gauge pushin 3/4 ounce of shot on the skeet field is a true delight...

Thanks, Cold Iron. I was also curious about how reliable the single trigger has been. Any issues with it not firing, or doubling?

Thanks for the offer. If I'm up that way .........

SRH

Not at all funny, Joe-- we are all glad our friend Stan survived a near fatal plunge into the water--RWTF

Queen you know I graduated to O/U'rs...

So what's your point they are double barreled.

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe

Queen you know I graduated to O/U'rs...

So what's your point they are double barreled.

Isn't this...

https://dsgarms.com/shotguns-stg-31089

...what you graduated up to?

The point is that the one on here with the biggest post count, mostly from giving smart*** replies to valid questions about S X Ss, or dissing a S X S that is for sale, doesn't even own one, and likely never has had an example of the particular gun in question, in hand.

It's just one more example of why your credibility here is zerO.

SRH

Who are you talking about Stan....nca225?? I�d go with a 32� Model 21 and doctor it up for sporting rather than going Superbird, I think. Better gun for me for $6,500.

I got a Galazan catalog in my mail box, "Superbird" on the cover--I don't like the name or color casing.

I`ve always thought that a great opportunity was missed by both the English and Spanish guntrade by not building basic guns specifically for clay shooting.They may have still been making a reasonable number of guns!!!! Guns such as AYA #3 and #4 etc to a decent weight with a flat rib.
Instead they watched their business die......
Good to see someone is now making the effort!

Originally Posted By: Imperdix

I`ve always thought that a great opportunity was missed by both the English and Spanish guntrade by not building basic guns specifically for clay shooting.They may have still been making a reasonable number of guns!!!! Guns such as AYA #3 and #4 etc to a decent weight with a flat rib.
Instead they watched their business die......
Good to see someone is now making the effort!

Very good observation, Imperdix. I've thought the same for a long time.
JR

Originally Posted By: AZMike

I got a Galazan catalog in my mail box, "Superbird" on the cover--I don't like the name or color casing.

I'm just the opposite, Mike. Why don't you like the cc? And the "Superbird" name is catchy for a dedicated clays gun, imo. Probably not what you would want engraved on your Purdey, lol...
JR

Originally Posted By: Stan

The point is that the one on here with the biggest post count, mostly from giving smart*** replies to valid questions about S X Ss, or dissing a S X S that is for sale, doesn't even own one, and likely never has had an example of the particular gun in question, in hand.

It's just one more example of why your credibility here is zerO.

SRH

Calm down marm...I've owned Purdey and lots of Scotts and a few others hammer and sidelock.

The old guys I shot with all died..and one day I had a John Browning vision and woke up and sold them and went stack barrel.

How much shotgun credibility can a Verona get you Queeny...

just saying.

Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe

How much shotgun credibility can a Verona get you Queeny...

just saying.

Not much. I let my shooting create my shotgun credibility. I have been beaten by lesser guns.

But, I'll make yOu an offer. Set up a round of sporting clays at your local club and I'll shoot against yOu next time I pass through Memphis, which will be in the next few weeks with a little cooperation from the ducks over on the L 'Anguille. I'll shoot my 28 ga. junk Verona against yOur 12 ga. 101. That's right, a 28 against a 12, factory loads, heads up. Winner gets bragging rights. Loser pays for the winner's round of clays. A picture of the scorecard gets posted on here. I would offer to shoot you for pink slips but I don't want a 12 gauge 101 any more than yOu want a 28 gauge Verona.

SRH

Originally Posted By: Imperdix

I`ve always thought that a great opportunity was missed by both the English and Spanish guntrade by not building basic guns specifically for clay shooting.They may have still been making a reasonable number of guns!!!! Guns such as AYA #3 and #4 etc to a decent weight with a flat rib.
Instead they watched their business die......
Good to see someone is now making the effort!

An AYA built replica of Percy Stanbury's Webley 400 would be my choice, I've never liked a raised rib on a side by side like Greener's Blue Rock Pigeon gun or the more modern Model 23. I can see the attraction of the CSMC though.

Originally Posted By: Konor3inch

I've never liked a raised rib on a side by side like Greener's Blue Rock Pigeon gun or the more modern Model 23. I can see the attraction of the CSMC though.

Why do you think you don't like them, Konor? Tradition, looks? Just curious.

The reason I ask is that no one complains about a raised rib on an O/U gun. Almost all of them have 'em. I've only shot one O/U in my life that didn't have a raised rib and that was a Valmet Waterfowler, which was built with 36" barrels. It has no rib, to save weight obviously, but has a short "stub rib" fore and aft.

SRH

Originally Posted By: Stan

Originally Posted By: Konor3inch

I've never liked a raised rib on a side by side like Greener's Blue Rock Pigeon gun or the more modern Model 23. I can see the attraction of the CSMC though.

Why do you think you don't like them, Konor? Tradition, looks? Just curious.

The reason I ask is that no one complains about a raised rib on an O/U gun. Almost all of them have 'em. I've only shot one O/U in my life that didn't have a raised rib and that was a Valmet Waterfowler, which was built with 36" barrels. It has no rib, to save weight obviously, but has a short "stub rib" fore and aft.

Experience with a model 23 waterfowl . I used it for a few years wildfowling and enjoyed it in the half light of dusk and moonflighting but when I used it on clays the ramp up onto the rib distracted me in a way that a flat ribbed over and under didn't. I remember thinking at the time, around 20 years ago,that if it only had a flat rib it would have been my ideal side by side for wildfowling and clays. I like the look of the raised rib on a side by side but as I say I just find the ramp a distraction , I had the same experience shooting an older beretta semi auto that had a steep ramp onto the rib itself. I dare say time spent shooting would probably solve the issue but at the time I just moved on to another gun.
Edit to add Beretta was an A390 step rib that a friend owned.
I like my side by sides but I'm not a died in the wool traditionalist. My favourite gun for years was a model 12 plain barrel 20 bore ,in poor condition the barrel was pinned to the action to prevent it being taken down to comply with magazine restrictions as interpreted by the London proof house.My skeet grade model 12 restricted at the Birmingham proof house is not pinned and can be broken down. Both barrels are not in good condition and pitted but I have enjoyed both as much as any side by side.

SRH

I may have misunderstood what you meant by raised rib. I consider a flat rib raised, too, above what a concave game rib normally is. But, I think you're referring to a rib that is raised so much that there must be a ramp at the rear. My bad.

That type ramp doesn't bother my shooting. I shoot that type rib on my MX8 very well. But, I don't care for the looks of one that high on a S X S. A simple flat rib is high enough for me, and I much prefer them over a concave, English style game gun rib.

Thanks, SRH

Originally Posted By: buzz

Who are you talking about Stan....nca225??

Umm, for the record buzz I have 7 side by sides, and I hunt/dog train with all of them. Although I do admit, I don't have any O/U's, Autoloaders, Pumps or single shot shotguns.

Originally Posted By: nca225

[quote=Stan]
The reason I ask is that no one complains about a raised rib on an O/U. Almost all of them have 'em. I've only shot one O/U in my life that didn't have a raised rib and that was a Valmet Waterfowler, which was built with 36" barrels. It has no rib, to save weight obviously, but has a short "stub rib" fore and aft.

SRH

YMMV Stan, but it seems to me that since a raised rib on a SxS just looks god awful. Seems more at home on a O/U or single barreled gun. Basis for less complaints? Maybe. This only comes from a perspective of aesthetics though and not functionality.

Originally Posted By: Stan

Thanks, Cold Iron. I was also curious about how reliable the single trigger has been. Any issues with it not firing, or doubling?

Thanks for the offer. If I'm up that way .........

SRH

Interesting question, and timely.

Right before hunting season started while shooting SC it doubled on me and then became a single shot. Have ~8K rounds through it.

They have a Lifetime Warranty and I just called them today about it. The guy I talked to about it said that is the first 12 or 20 that has had that issue and he wanted the serial number so that he could track it. He did say that they had a few 28 and 410's that had the trigger issue after ~6K or so rounds but no 12 or 20 ga. guns. So sounds like he was being honest about it.

I asked if I could take it to a large gun repair shop near me that fixed my Winchester 23 that had the same issue and if so could they order the parts from Dickinson in Ca. He said that they prefer that I send it to the Oregon repair shop so that they could take a detailed look at it and inspect the rest of the internals.

He told me to call back in a month and he would give me a detailed report on the repair work and inspection.

Thanks, CI. I've seen so many single trigger probs on Turkish guns. I just have my doubts that they've got single triggers as reliable as, say, a Beretta. Double trigger guns they've made seem to be 100% reliable. My two-trigger Dickinson S X S Estate hasn't given one single problem.

Best, SRH

Originally Posted By: Konor3inch

Originally Posted By: Imperdix

I`ve always thought that a great opportunity was missed by both the English and Spanish guntrade by not building basic guns specifically for clay shooting.They may have still been making a reasonable number of guns!!!! Guns such as AYA #3 and #4 etc to a decent weight with a flat rib.
Instead they watched their business die......
Good to see someone is now making the effort!

An AYA built replica of Percy Stanbury's Webley 400 would be my choice, I've never liked a raised rib on a side by side like Greener's Blue Rock Pigeon gun or the more modern Model 23. I can see the attraction of the CSMC though.

For hunting I don't normally like a rib although it isn't a show stopper for me. I like the raised rib on my Plantation Sporters for clays. And Winchester 23.

The 2 Winchester 21's to the left of my 23 have raised ribs and don't often hear many people complain about them, but not sure why many consider them "OK". The 16 ga. AyA �2 in the rack on my buggy is of course not a raised rib. Wish I would had taken a picture from the other side now LOL.

Originally Posted By: Stan the interenet hOe

Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe

How much shotgun credibility can a Verona get you Queeny...

just saying.

Not much. I let my shooting create my shotgun credibility. I have been beaten by lesser guns.

But, I'll make yOu an offer. Set up a round of sporting clays at your local club and I'll shoot against yOu next time I pass through Memphis, which will be in the next few weeks with a little cooperation from the ducks over on the L 'Anguille. I'll shoot my 28 ga. junk Verona against yOur 12 ga. 101. That's right, a 28 against a 12, factory loads, heads up. Winner gets bragging rights. Loser pays for the winner's round of clays. A picture of the scorecard gets posted on here. I would offer to shoot you for pink slips but I don't want a 12 gauge 101 any more than yOu want a 28 gauge Verona.

SRH

I'd be skeered you'd shoOt me Veronica

Damn Stan, I haven't logged on here in months - going on years - but I do admit to a sort of voyeuristic weakness that brings me back once in a while. Your offer seems legit; I hope it's accepted. My bet's on you!

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe

Originally Posted By: Stan the interenet hOe

Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe

How much shotgun credibility can a Verona get you Queeny...

just saying.

Not much. I let my shooting create my shotgun credibility. I have been beaten by lesser guns.

But, I'll make yOu an offer. Set up a round of sporting clays at your local club and I'll shoot against yOu next time I pass through Memphis, which will be in the next few weeks with a little cooperation from the ducks over on the L 'Anguille. I'll shoot my 28 ga. junk Verona against yOur 12 ga. 101. That's right, a 28 against a 12, factory loads, heads up. Winner gets bragging rights. Loser pays for the winner's round of clays. A picture of the scorecard gets posted on here. I would offer to shoot you for pink slips but I don't want a 12 gauge 101 any more than yOu want a 28 gauge Verona.

SRH

I'd be skeered you'd shoOt me Veronica

ROTFLMAO

No, not in TN. Don't want to get locked up in Memphis.

Besides, I don't like wasting shells ............

SRH

I'd be worried you couldn't hold out it's a pretty long walk.

Plus we have lots of water hAzards.

Just saying.

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe

I'd be worried you couldn't hold out it's a pretty long walk.

Plus we have lots of water hAzards.

Just saying.

JoeFrank,
You sure do make a mean chickencluck. Yup, you sound like a chicken by any definition of the term.

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe

I'd be worried you couldn't hold out it's a pretty long walk.

Plus we have lots of water hAzards.

Just saying.

I don't need anybody to make excuses for me. The offer stands. If you change your mind ..........

SRH

I would take that advice and send it to their warranted repair shop. I've heard nothing but good about them, though the only thing I've heard of sending a Dickinson back for is triggers that are too heavy.

It may be that they replace the entire trigger assembly for you under warranty, something a regular gunsmith couldn't do. Besides, looks like you are like me in that you've got plenty of other iron to shoot while it's away.

I'd like to know how well it's resolved for you after it's over and you get back to shooting it.

Best wishes, SRH

Originally Posted By: VerOna Stan

Has anyone seen one (in person) or even seen a review of one? I stumbled across it on the CSMC website today.

Looks like it starts at $4,950 or so, beaver tail foreend, 8 lbs, single trigger, non-automatic safety, barrel lengths out to 32�, and choke tubes. The ones they have built for sale are over $6,000.

Interesting gun and would maybe consider a long barrel version for sporting clays and duck hunting.

Stay on tOpic VerO'naka....

Originally Posted By: Stan

Thanks, CI. I've seen so many single trigger probs on Turkish guns. I just have my doubts that they've got single triggers as reliable as, say, a Beretta. Double trigger guns they've made seem to be 100% reliable. My two-trigger Dickinson S X S Estate hasn't given one single problem.

Best, SRH

My double trigger CZ Bobwhite (12 gauge) slam fired within the first few cases of shells. They did quickly replace it, and then discontinued the Bobwhite and modified their lineup within a year or two.