Every year, I make an effort to run some of my black powder cartridges through my vintage shotguns. Typically, around Christmas or New Year’s, I’ll be out in the forest hunting ruffed grouse and firing Gamebore fiber wad black powder cartridges.

Some years ago I bought up a stash of them when I heard they were no longer going to be available, so I have quite a few boxes to use.
Today I am shooting a 16 bore Ithaca Crass.

Today I am doing some form of an Edwardian themed driven shoot in the far north reaches of Michigan’s lower peninsula, sponsored by Fieldsport.
Thank God the snow isn’t waist deep yet.

I think the other guns in the line might be surprised at my first report.

He he he.

Merry Christmas!

Yes, it would be nice to see a picture of their expressions. Shoot well and a Merry Christmas to you.

That sounds like fun. I enjoy shooting black at the trap range. The first few times, everyone wonders what that noise is all about.

I didn't know there was anything in Michigan that could be driven. These are grouse? It certainly would be interesting.

About 25-30 years ago I loaded some shells with black to use in a hammer gun I had at the time. That fun soon wore off for me, as I was shooting lots of black in m/loaders too. A full box of those shells were in my shop, leftover, in a regular shell box.

I hosted a dove shoot and one of the guests had forgotten shells. His father asked if I had any extra. I looked in the shop, saw those leftovers and handed them to him, not realizing they were loaded with black.

He was shooting an A5, AIR, and after the fun commenced he walked over to his Dad and showed him his gun, which had stopped functioning. His Dad, a m/l shooter too and familiar with black powder fouling, looked at the gun and immediately diagnosed the problem, partly by the smell.

We all had a big laugh about it. His son had never even noticed all the extra smoke.

Does anyone here, besides me, hunt with bp loaded cartridges? Always fun to see a duck or pheasant fall out of the bottom of a cloud of smoke.

Every once in a while Amarillomike and I will hunt wild bobs with bp, usually in English single shot hammer guns. We try to pick days when the wind is blowing, in a calm there is no way to tell if you dropped it or not. And it helps for the hunting partner to be over to the side and mark a downed bird.

That sounds like a really neat experience Clapper. Please post pics of the fun!

I learned to squat real quick and look under the smoke, when shooting at a single, to see if it fell. My buddy would almost die laughing at me.

SRH

I took my hammer W&C Scott 10 gauge to a tower shoot last year after getting permission from the operator. (There usually is a 12 gauge size limit) My hand loads were 2 7/8 inch loads with 1 1/8 ounce 6's and 7.5's and he was flexible enough to realize that most of the 12 gauge shooters were using 1 1/4 ounce loads anyway.

It was a lot of fun but the sharp report did worry a few of the retrieving dogs at the shooting butts. It was just sharp enough to get their attention!

I was told I could bring it back anytime.

gee stan, was that the same person, with the a5, to whom you gave the bp shells to shoot, wid out tellin him they would jam up his autoloader with fouling...and that he would have to disassemble the gun, wash all internal parts with soap and water, dry, lube, and reassemble the gun... hoping he did it right...

or was that a new friend for you to have fun with at their expense?

"do unto others, as you would have them do unto you."

joe, next time you see mikie, give him my regards an tell him he is missed here...

Some years ago, I was acquired by a Quality II L. C. Smith in 10 gauge that was made at the old plant. I feel that she is one of the last hammerless made at the Syracuse plant. She has damascus steel barrels that are beautiful to look at. One day she and I were involved in a gentle warm discussion and she asked me if I would take her duck hunting. I tried to explain that the rules had changed and now steel shot was required and smokeless powder was the norm. She looked at me with that special way that only she can do and said "Please, please." Well, no way that I could say no to "Her Sweetness."

So what is a fella to do. I found 25 Alcan all brass shotshell hulls that take the 57 size primers. I made a sizing die to insure they might fit into her sleek chambers. She was really excited when I showed her the brass hulls. She said she remembered the days when brass and also paper hulls were very common. Wow, is she pretty when she smiles. Now, I found some 1F black powder, and some 10 gauge over shot wads. I also bought some MEC 10 gauge steel wads which I cut off to the correct length to fit into the alcan hulls. I talked it over with her and said I would only be using #3 steel pellets to insure she would not get swollen. She sure did appreciate that. So, I combined the hulls, primers, dipper load of 1F black, cutoff MEC wad, same dipper of #3 steel shot and topped it off with an over shot wad and Elmer's glue around the edge. I did insure the shot volume was a little smaller that the wad volume to insure all the shot stayed in the wad during the travel down the barrels. I showed the finished cartridges to her and wow, did she shine with joy. Well now we made a date to go to the duck blind. I was so proud to show her off to my buddies, I mean who would not brag if his special gal would get up and go so early in the morning. Well, here came the test, I caressed her and THEN here came the ducks and it an instant, she was up and spoke with authority and power. Smoke was everywhere, but when it cleared TWO green head mallards were feet up on the water. WHAT A JOY. She has told me things that she has kept in her heart for years. She and I have grown closer and closer. We often just gaze at each other and smile. She does wonder if any of her old girlfriends out there hunt any more. I did assure her that I would find out.

Enjoy the hunt,

I even miss Mikey....

I did everything short of begging him to stop but he wouldn't.

Claimed he was going to win....hope he enjoys his trOphy.

I shoot turkeys, geese, ducks, and pheasants with black. It does sometimes obscure a follow-up shot or taking a mark on a fallen bird, but it works quite well for me in all of my guns.

I do worry about being a fire hazard sometimes and will opt for smokeless if hot, windy, and dry.

For the last few years, I have shot doves (usually a couple times per season) with Gamebore BP 20ga shells in a 12ga Brit hammer gun with ChamberMates. I found 19 flats of those shells after they were discontinued, so I grabbed all of them. Lifetime supply, and then some. First few pre-dawn shots usually get everyone's attention.

Easy to tell when someone is obscured about black powder...

what about pyrodex reloads...

Mike, there used to be laws in Texas against publishing porn on the internet!!

Thanks, pleased you read it

Never. The stuff is ridiculously corrosive among other things.

I still have a few boxes of Republic Metallic Cartridge Co. black powder loads. I'll shoot a few on a dove shoot from time to time and I have one box of 2 1/2" high brass No. 5s I shoot a turkey with when the mood strikes...Geo

rmc made good bp shells...what happened, that they went out of bidness?

rst, liability, lack of demand...sum thin else?

brent, how is pyrodex more corrosive than bp?

It causes more rust.

CZ, just opened the safe and told my 16b Crass about your outing.
I think her smile betrayed a hint of jealousy.

I hunt turkeys with a 10 bore Smallwood hammer gun, using RMC brass shells, BP, and bismuth (nontox now required for everything in CA). This season I will use it for ducks if we ever get enough weather to bring a few more to my area.

It will work well for both, but what shot size of Bismuth did you use for turkeys?

I use #5 Bi for ducks and pheasants with good results.

I cannot believe you persist with this drivel. Can you not read well, or can you just not comprehend what you read? This is the unaltered text I wrote:



Tell me ........what part of "not realizing they were loaded with black" needs further explanation for you? Get back to me on it and I'll get my 2 yr. old granddaughter to explain it to you.

SRH

well stan, perhaps you are right... time to let hit go...

I think a a5 is a Browning auto 5 - right ? If so, Mr. Browning thought it was one of his greatest achievements because it could use BP or nitro. But maybe it's one of the new ones that look somewhat like the old auto-5 and wouldn't digest BP. I reload so BP is just one of the loads I make quite often. The best outing was in the afternoon of a tower shoot where we went afield with our dogs to shoot any birds that had escaped in the morning. I had used smoke all morning and in the afternoon my Wirehair Pointing Griffon had been retrieving all the birds anyone shot and he pointed a bird. I kicked it up, let everyone else shoot, and took it down with some smoke in my hammergun. My friend gave me a big thumbs up. Kind a neat to hear all those other guns go off and have my big boom bring home the bacon.

Brent, I used bismuth 4's for turkeys because that is what I have on hand, and that is what I have loaded for ducks. All I need now is some ducks.

We all need ducks. Our season is over but it was awful. Serious drought really killed the season for me.

That was a...BLAST!
Hah!

The club this shoot was held at is about 200 miles from my home.
The shoot was the idea of Brian Bilinski of Fieldsport in Traverse city, MI.
The marketing effort was brief, and well subscribed. Just an email. The flyer was interesting enough, but vague.

People run hot and cold on these kind of things, and to attempt to coordinate an Edwardian themed Driven shoot,in the snow belt, in December, In Michigan, is really a tall order. I'm glad Brian was successful in rounding up enough participant's.

The hosting club is near a bunch of ski resorts so it has topography.They haven't had a lot of snow this year (there was probably 4" on the ground), but lake effect snow was slowly falling when we left our air BNB (a vineyard outside Petosky, MI), and continued throughout the morning.

It was a lovely, forested, drive in the snow, meandering around the hills to Wycamp Lake hunt club. My awd shooting brake providing comfort and protection on the slippery roads. (New sb arriving Dec24)

We arrived at the club at 8:30, for a 9:00 check in.
The club house (too small to call a lodge) is an old farmhouse, tastefully decorated in sporting themes, with open beams, field stone, and fly rods.
The fireplace was going, and social distancing was observed.

As the other guns arrived, various teams assembled in the parking lot. People came from all over the lower peninsula of MI.

There would be 22 guns in the line. 330 birds released.
There would be 2 guns per peg. That didn't thrill me.

We had the safety talk, pegs were assigned, and we caravaned off into the forest.

At our destination, the layout was explained to the guns.
The pegs were laid out in a long crescent along a wooodlot of mature jack pines.

It is quite a brilliant layout, perfect for this environment. I say so because in the UK, it's not uncommon to have a drive On the backside of a stand of commercial forest.The density of the commercial forest coupled with their height,Forces the pheasants to climb skyward. So that the shots are presented at a very nice distance, very safe, with lots of blue sky around your targets.
The birds appear just as in the UK, 35 yards up and over, twisting and sliding in the breeze.

I won't get into the mechanics of how the Released birds were coaxed to fly up and over the woodland, but the task was accomplished.

With the snow gently falling, And the pheasants fully feathered and being presented over the tops of pine trees It was just like a December morning in north Yorkshire.

My pegmate and I sorted out how we wished to proceed, as he had never shot Driven style game before. I said, until we get going, we will share them like on a quail hunt, and I will take those on the left and you can take those on the right. We will share our opportunities. That seem to workout Well enough.

I was prepared to double gun if the bird volumes were there,but I wanted to shoot the 1st few drives with the Crass and black powder. My lovely wife enjoined our group as my loader and cheerleader.

The horn blew, and roosters began to cackle as they climbed high over the trees.
Gun fire began to erupt at various places along the line,When suddenly, What appeared to be an enormous cock bird rose skyward over a monumental nearby jack pine.
It was on the left. It was was my bird.
The Crass lept to my shoulder, my left hand extending towards the beak of the towering bird, I reached forward for some additional daylight in front Of the cock, and slapped the front trigger when she nestled into my shoulder and touched my cheek. Boom! There was an eruption of smoke and fire, and I saw the cockbird cartwheeling out of the sky.

Sulfurous fume and a detritus of fiber wad and such enveloped our firing position.
That's one, I thought.

Birds came by In ones and twos Curling down the line, and presenting shots in the 20-45 yd range.

After about 1⁄2 dozen birds were shared between my partner and I, the horn blew and we indexed down the line to our next peg.I

More of the same. Smoke, soot, and fire. Handling mishaps ;), and operator errors. (The Crass has a 3 position automatic safety, that can be stubborn)

After the 5th drive, we stopped for elevenses. No alcohol, but hot cider, coffee, and snacks. Social distancing was practiced, we enjoyed it out in the forest, beneath the new falling snow.

I wanted to double gun a bit, So I uncased the Miroku's for the next couple drives. But the relatively tight confines of the pegs, really didn't lend themselves to double gunning. Especially, when my peg mate was single gunning. There's just too much going on to be successful at it. They don't launch enough birds simultaneously to really bother, and it was really just an effort to practice Smooth Gun transitions between my wife and I.
My peg mate had never seen double gunning before, and was anxious to watch.

After a modest effort, I cased the pair and went back to the Crass.

We finished the Driven portion of the days shoot,And returned to the lodge Clubhouse.

I don't know what the 1st phase tally of birds shot was, though there was plenty of shooting, and the pickers up all had smiles on their faces. And they were many very happy retrievers.
So I would say that the line shot pretty well.
At lunch, (Again socially distanced) the hunt coordinator set up teams of guns with guides that had dogs, to mop up the escapees.
He assured us that there were plenty of stray birds On the grounds.

I was partnered with a guide training a trio of pointing labs,And chose only to shoot At birds he felt his dog handled as he wanted. So,The youngest dog Didn't get much shot over him,But each of his parents Accounted for another dozen or so Pointed birds each.

By about 4:30, daylight was on the wane (high lattitude), and I had run out of black powder cartridges. I had killed as many pheasants as I cared to. And I was exhausted.
So, I called it quits.

A fine work out for the old gal in the winter snow.
At the lodge, I pulled out a flask of 20 year old sherry cask single malt from Glendronach, And shared a tipple with my guide and the staff.


We bid our adieu, and returned to the vineyard we are staying at in the twilight.
Hot showers, cold cocktails, and a delicious dinner from the Park City grill followed.

A fine close to a splendid day of sport.

Sounds like you had a big time. Pics would've been nice, but I understand that the "grey man" protocol prevents that.

SRH

What a big time, CZ. Sure sounds like fun!

Grand, just Grand
Thank you for sharing
Mike

Today is a travel day. I’ll try to round up some pictures and post them when I get in tonight.

Thanks. A great day you will never forget.

Reminds me of hunting a popular redhead pass back in the '60's. During peak migration the pass usually drew 6-8 parties of one or two hunters that distanced themselves to enable shots at 'their' birds. One morning I launched a big load of Lubaloy 4's from my jug-choked percussion 10-bore and two plump drakes fell behind my 'peg'. Smiled when I heard some southern hunter yell "What the heyell was that?" as the smoke plume hung in the air.

[Smiled when I heard some southern hunter yell "What the heyell was that?" as the smoke plume hung in the air.]

Hal, there's no telling how many times I've heard exactly that on a dove shoot when I slip in one of my BP shells. Nice to see in print an accurate representation of southern dialect for a change...Geo

CZ, I'm home watching it rain and turn cold today so reading your account of the toss'em up shoot in the snow you attended was enjoyable. Thanks for sharing that with us...Geo

or, hit could read "watt duh hale waz dat?"...

course, dats in florida cracker lingo, don cha no...

as compared to how yall talk up nawth in jawja...

mus be cold up der bout now, less dan 50 ah spect..

round 70 down he ah in duh swamp...

cuse me, honey, wood you be so kind as to git me anutter beah...please...

George- our culturally deprived nemesis-- Herr Flammenwerfer- Edvard Gut-- gets Southern dialect about as easily as the Pope speaks Yiddish-- I've shot a few boxes of British 12 ga BP loads- 2&1/2" No. 7-- when hunting "pick-Up pheasants after our clubs Tower shoots- mainly in my 12 gauge 3E Smith--lots of fun watching the smoke clouds disappear and the thump of a big dead rooster hitting the grass--RWTF

ho ho ho foxie, less you spent sum time down in duh swamp dat you don no nuttin bout, you wunt no cracker culture, even if hit cum up side you an woaped you up side yo head...so to speak...

Eddie, you don't ever give it a rest, do you.?? There is a large swampy area South of the main base down in Jacksonville, NC. It is called "Courthouse Bay" and that is where the 1311 Combat Engineers train in EOD. Heard a fair amount of "cracker dialect" down there- "We's fixin' to go" Shure 'nff" etc. RWTF

foxie, nc shell cracker swamp culture aint the same as florida cracker swamp culture...you would know dat if you spent time in multiple swamps like i have...

an foxie, if you wanna give hit a rest, den pls do so...fine by me...an udders here too, ah betcha...we awl shore nuff had ah nuff o yo tread trashin...

Eddie- only seamstresses and tailors trash threads-- as to treads, most likely try Belle Tire-- RWTF

No pics, CZ?

I'm really interested in how following the grey man protocol works with being the only black powder shooter in a hunt with 21 other guns. No one is supposed to remember the grey man was even there. Clouds of bp smoke tend to attract attention to the shooter, when no one else is using it. Maybe others were shooting bp, and I didn't read that between the lines.

And, how you demonstrate to others how to utilize a loader, with "double gunning", without drawing attention to yourself? I've read up on the strict grey man "practices', and I can't figure this out. Help me out here. I want to learn more about how to pull this off.

SRH

Now is when Dave needs to step in and delete Ed and Fox's horseshit....instead he let's drivil like this stand deletes important things like Gun rights or the American election being stolen.

I'm at the point of saying f this liberal site.

foxie, you gonna stan (pun here) fur jOe referrin to our pontifications as "horseshit"...

an jOe, horse shit is two words, not one...cept of course if you are talkin west tn swamp drivil...

an cum on jOe...lighten up...hits almost Christmas...

Peace on Earth and good will to awl men...

jOe, say it. We'll all get by somehow without you. You'll be happier somwhere else. Hell maybe.

I'll drink to that, or "dat" RWTF

don go jOe...hit wunt be duh same hear wid out youse..

Did you need someone to donate to Dave in your honor frAnk? I'm happy to do so again if need be, just speak up.

wid you gone, keet gone an mikie gone, plus ah host uv udders...

why duh entertainment appeal of dis here fine d0ublegOn forum wood be sa verily de mininshed...an mostly borin...