Ran across this recent article from Guns & Ammo. At first I was circling misstatements but before long my pen ran out of ink so I quit. See what you find m

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/should-you-shoot-old-damascus-barreled-shotgun/388460

At least he says you can shoot Damascus barreled guns. I agree the article could have been written and researched better.

Ken

To think he could write that article without referencing Sherman Bell’s work...

Yes he is too emphatic on many points that should have been researched and explained better.

Those of us who've been part of this BB for a long time can remember that there was once a very vocal group here who referred regularly to "Damascus roulette". And we still have the warning on shotshell boxes about not using them in guns with Damascus barrels or short chambers.

No one who decries the use of old, damascus barrels, and cites examples of rupturing of the same, ever mentions the dozens of modern, fluid steel barrels that blow up every year.

SRH

I have seen more K80 barrels blow up in the last decade than Damascus barrels. But to be fair too many people do not have a decent knowledge level of proper pressures to shoot anything that might be questionable. So writers often aim towards that audience not the informed one.

The ONLY reason that warning is still printed on shotshell boxes is strictly for liability reasons. No insurance company would ever pay a dime if that warning wasn't there if there was a lawsuit because of an accident, REGARDLESS of what or who caused the accident.

uh-oh. All have been professionally checked out and conscientiously loaded for. If you have a number of them then no single gun will get worn out. That's one theory.

I like your theory, John.

It's nice to see a gun mag take a break from rah-rah "articles" about the next amazing rifle caliber that merely recreates what .270 or .30-06 have been doing just fine for 100 years...but with more expensive ammo and a soul-less Tupperware stock.

I dont know anyone who subscribes to, or buys these. They seem to only exist as an advertisement flyer for Hornady, Remington, etc.

NDG

Here was me thinking all the doom and gloom South Sayers had given up on this subject. They seem to have stopped on this side of the pond after a large number of gun users sort of fought back in the 60s & 70s. This dangerous chant was uses by large numbers of gun retailers to aid in the sales of cheap Spanish guns and at the time a lot of very serviceable top maker Damascus barreled guns where scraped. In the end the proof houses said that if a Damascus barreled gun was in sound usable condition and IN PROOF it was safe to use Cartridges of the correct chamber length and shot load. Unfortunately you folks do not have that luxury, so this scare story will be hauled out and polished up with regular monotony to see who will believe it.

I shot damascus hammer guns on two occasions recently at skeet. Both times, a fellow participant came up to me afterwards with astonishment plastered all over their face. Could not believe someone would actually do that. Both are nice guys so I explained why they are every bit as safe as fluid steel barrels with proper wall thickness. I think they are still skeptics...

Damascus, we ended up with the warning about modern shotshells in Damascus guns and about shooting longer shells in shorter chambers as a result of the shotshell industry in this country. It dates back to the 1930's on our side of the pond. We didn't get those cheap Spanish guns until well after WWII . . . by which time we'd figured out that reasonably priced Japanese shotguns--like Japanese cars, trucks, and television sets--were definitely not cheap junk. The Spanish had to work harder to overcome the reputation they'd earned with their cheap guns.

Unfortunately? ........ hardly. You're happy with what you've got on your side of the pond, we're happy with one less foot on our neck over here.

Tell me this, if the proof house is such a bastion of reasonable thinking, and so reputable, over there why did your gun users have to "sort of fight back" in the 60s and 70s? All the proof house did was restate the obvious. Maybe they aren't so believable over there after all? Or, do you just have that many unscrupulous gun dealers there?

SRH

Previous thread regarding proof testing in the U.S.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=581069

U.S. makers, for the buying free citizenry, proved (and continue to prove) their guns without the "help" of the Federal government.
"All our guns are tested with heavy loads..."

I would think the answer would be yes to both questions....a stiff pill in an old gun only proves it survived once.

Shoot modern ammo in an old vintage gun and it's almost sure to eventually come off face.

Stanton Hills Who the hell do you think you are the "Witch Finder General" talking of boots on necks I come from a country where the Government are inoculating the population by the tens of thousands a week for Covid and yours is doing what? I think you should be taking notice of that Brit saying "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones" . What level thought processes do you have asking me to answer for the Proof Houses and gun retailers of the 1960s 70s, oop'ss I have just dropped my Chrystal ball. If you want to talk so sarcastically trying to score points or is it just seeing who can piss higher up the wall pick another person and another subject. And if that is all too hard ,just grow up and act like a less arrogant self opinionated person you never know you may be liked.

Looks like I struck a nerve ...............

To start with it's Hillis, not Hills. Common mistake, even over here.

Several points I'll make in reply to your reply.

1. I just can't make the jump from governmentally mandated proving of guns to COVID19 vaccinations. Sorry.
2. When you decide to show public pity for us Americans because we don't have proof houses, by pointing put how "unfortunate" we are not to have them, you open yourself up to being the one who should "answer for them".
3. This has nothing to do with a pissing contest. In spite of your many excellent posts explaining much of the British gunmaking trade, and your excellent help to so many of us on the gunsmithing forum, you have shown yourself to be an arrogant Englishman with your not-so-subtle comments about our lack of proof houses, and in many other ways. As long as you try to slip in these "holier than thou" comments, like how unfortunate we are not to have proof houses, you should be ready to defend your statements.
4. My post has nothing to do with being liked. It is about trying to understand why you are so adamant that Americans are to be pitied because we have no proof houses.

Hope your blood pressure didn't get too high.

SRH

We're more than a bit OT, I slept on it, but couldn't stifle the need to address UK vs. US COVID vaccinations
The data is a few days old:
UK with 66.65M population has given about 15M shots
US with 331M population has given about 60M shots
Arizona with 7.3M has given 1M shots
(BTW: Yuma had the highest PCR positivity rate per capita in the WORLD about 6 weeks ago. Things are much better in AZ now, but the disease and death rate on the Navajo Nation per capita has been the highest in the US since the start of the pandemic)
And the recent 100 years storm has significantly slowed delivery of vaccine, and the US is geographically a big country.

Because of the limited supply, the US prioritized first responders, heath care workers, the elderly and most vulnerable.

As of last week, 95% of those in England > 70 y/o have received the vaccine.
SOMEONE in the British Govt. however decided some lives were not worth "wasting" vaccinations (and ventilators) upon
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties

That said, there has been a reluctance to be vaccinated among the young and healthy for a disease with a survival rate > 99% and in which >80% of deaths have been among those > 65 years old; >30% above 85.

Comparing the quality of heath care in the UK under the NHS and that in the US (and the ethics of rationing health care ie. who gets to decide?) is entirely another matter. But the principle IS relevant to who gets to decide which guns are "good" and which are "bad"?
At Stan's advanced age and having spent > 5 minutes under water, he may have been denied ICU care in the UK after his near drowning.

Best to put him on Ignore - I did some time ago
Less DM

You picked a good liberal paper to quote from Drew it does a good job at holding government to account ,very important, especially when it is a right wing Tory government in power. It reported today that the health secretary Matt Hancock acted unlawfully by not publishing Covid contract details worth billions within 30 days. It seems the chumocracy as they are calling it may have benefited with the prime minister’s ex adviser Dominic Cummins implicated in distributing contracts for PPE to personal friends.
No mention of Trump but they kept me well informed during the debacle that surrounded his exit.

It was lucky Stan had his medical insurance documents in his top pocket when they fished him out of the canal ,they might have considered dumping him back in otherwise.

Very little looking on your part Konor will document laws in the U.S. since the late 80's that anyone who stumbles into any ER must be "medically evaluated" and "anti-dumping" laws prohibit transfer to public hospitals of those without insurance; with very large monetary penalties and possible suspension from Medicare participation for doing so.
So the "undocumented", homeless, un-insured, and many of the Medicaid eligible use ERs at their site of primary care...creating many hour waits for everyone.
The quality of that care is certainly not the Mayo Clinic standards, unless the uninsured happens to live in North Scottsdale but the personal injury tort system in our country assures some kind of care for the uninsured.

I’m sure that’s correct Drew and just as sure that ICU in this country wouldn’t deny treatment to anyone critically ill.
Of course they wouldn’t just medically evaluate patients they would be treated until well and able to safely leave the care of the hospital. I’m sure that must be the case in your country too.
Waiting times in A and E here vary ,but on the whole not too bad, I can’t say that I grudge the time that the medical staff spend on other patients as the severity of the patients injuries still dictates the priority of patients treatment in an A and E environment

Though I am quite glad to be an American citizen, after having consulted with my GP, my wife and I are not going to take the vaccine at this time. Too many unanswered questions in our minds. The doc told me that he would ordinarily tell a patient whose lungs had been stressed like mine were to take the vaccine (underwater 8+ minutes and raging infections from E.Coli and two other bad bacteria for several days). But, he said my lungs sounded perfect, and concurred that we could decide for ourselves about the vaccine. We talked at length about Ivermectin, and other stuff. Then, he scolded me about my blood pressure and asked if I was still jumping rope for exercise. I said that I had not resumed after my recovery. He said I have one month to prove to him I could get my b.p. back down with exercise. In two weeks I'm up to 120 per day now, in two sets of 60, and increasing that amount almost daily. I jump twice between each rope revolution, so I get a quick heavy cardio workout. B.p. is already down to 139/80, still getting lower, and my lung capacity is steadily increasing. I feel like a million $.

Praise His name.

SRH

I plan to get the Covid19 vaccine just as soon as I am eligible, and as soon as it becomes available. I see no real downside, and side effects are negligible. Also, I read and hear of a number of relatively young and healthy people who get severe cases of Covid19 that really kicks their ass, even if it doesn't kill them. Also, I know that the Spanish flu of 1918 mutated into a much deadlier form over time, and Covid19 is mutating as well. Unfortunately, it looks as though the vaccine probably won't be available to me for several months, despite all of the political posturing that blamed Trump for vaccine distribution problems. Democrat promises to fix those problems aren't panning out. No surprise there. Apparently, giving rights to transgenders and citizenship to illegal aliens are higher priorities right now than ending the Covid19 pandemic.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

This website above has a lot of statistics showing vaccine rates for various countries. There are a couple maps that you can hover your mouse over to see rates of vaccines per 100 people and rates of the complete vaccine per 100 people. It looks like Israel is doing the best job by far with 82.4% of their population receiving at least one dose thus far. I was surprised to see that the rate for Canada is well below that of the U.S., when King Brown preached to us for years about the greatness of Socialized Medicine.

I’ve now had both doses of the Moderna vaccine (I’m 67). Slightly sore arm from the second shot was my only reaction.

like Rem40x, i've had both doses of the moderna, almost 4 weeks back (i'm 71). only effect was a knot at injection site for a day or so....kinda reminded me of childhood tetanus vaccines, they producted a similar knot for me.

https://politicalwire.com/2021/02/21/u-s-vaccine-rollout-now-among-best-in-the-world/

[/quote] I would think the answer would be yes to both questions....a stiff pill in an old gun only proves it survived once.

Shoot modern ammo in an old vintage gun and it's almost sure to eventually come off face.[/quote]


Sorry, for the benefit of all the Lefever owners, could you explain what "off face" means? 😏

NDG