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Posted By: battle Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 03:01 PM
Is the ‘1’ the grade stamp? Would 2 3/4” chambers be correct? The barrels have ‘4’ stamped, is that the chokes? Would a ultra sonic clean unhide and case color? Pretty cool license under the butt plate.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 03:17 PM
Yes grade stamp
Choke bore #4 both barrels?
Can’t hurt to clean it

The stock probably has shellac on it so no alcohol.

Not uncommon to find the web broken just in front of the hand pen when you pull the stock off so be mindful.

Nice find!
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 03:42 PM
I believe it is an about 1922 No. 1S with Cockerill Steel barrels; tubes made by Laurent Lochet-Habran.
The 'LLH' is also found on Field Grade "Smokeless Powder Steel" barrels

1924 Janney, Semple, Hill & Co. catalog

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

'4' indicates Full choke
Posted By: Walter C. Snyder Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 05:17 PM
It is a later Flues model. You will need to measure the chambers. The rest of your questions have been answered. The Buffalo Bill museum have the factory books that will include your gun if you want a 'factory' letter.
Enjoy your American classic! 4 is full choke.
Posted By: battle Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 06:35 PM
It has 2 3/4” chambers. What choke is 4 ?

I was thinking the grade was 1 1/2 with this type of engraving ?
Posted By: Lawrence Kotchek Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 08:32 PM
Does the museum also have the records for the NID's? I have a magnum and a super 10 I would letter if so.
Posted By: NCTarheel Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 09:06 PM
Walt,
What is the difference in the later Flues model and the earlier one?
Posted By: ed good Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 10:44 PM
dont clean it!
Posted By: pipeliner Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 10:55 PM
Rare as hens teeth.
Posted By: Ken Nelson Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/19/21 11:24 PM
I had a 1 1/2 grade that looked just like the pics. It was choked 2 & 4. As already mentioned not many of those around!
Posted By: Walter C. Snyder Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 12:40 AM
Circa 1915 the engraving patterns were changed on several of the Ithaca Flues models. The one of interest here is combining the Quality 1 and 1 1/2 into one gun--the Quality 1 that the OP shows. There were manufacturing changes also. The one that comes to mind is the barrel lug.
Cody does have the NID records and will do letters. I still have the Mag. 10 records that I will be sending soon. I do not do letters.
Posted By: Researcher Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 01:06 AM
During the summer of 1915, Ithaca went to the bold floral engraving on their No. 1 1/2 Flues Model.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

By 1920, with the discontinuance of composite iron and steel barrels, Ithaca Gun Co. combined their No. 1 and No. 1 1/2 as the new No. 1 --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

According the the serial number chronology in the second edition of Walter's book, your gun would be of 1923 vintage. Closest I have is the 1924 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: Researcher Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 01:33 AM
During the years the Ithaca Flues Model was produced in 28-gauge, 28-gauge shells were offered by our North American ammunition companies in two lengths. The "standard" shell was 2 1/2 inch and carried a load of 1 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 14 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing 5/8 ounce of shot.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

A slightly hotter load of 2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 16 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing the same 5/8 ounce of shot was put up in a 2 7/8 inch shell.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The progressive burning smokeless powder, high velocity, 28-gauge load with 3/4 ounce of shot wasn't introduced until 1932, well into the NID era, put up in the 2 7/8 inch hull.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Just before WW-II our ammunition companies began offering 28-gauge Skeet Loads in a 2 3/4 inch case.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The hunting loads remained in the 2 7/8 inch case for a few years after the war, just into the pie crimp era --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Then the ammo companies began putting all their 28-gauge loads in the 2 3/4 inch case --


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: NCTarheel Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 02:52 PM
How rare is a Flues Grade 1 or 1 1/2 28 gauge? Does anyone have any idea how many were made?
Posted By: Walter C. Snyder Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 05:25 PM
I did not count them when I had the records but my 'wag' is 1000ish. They were introduced in 1912 so they had 13/14 years of production. JMHO.
Posted By: NCTarheel Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 06:26 PM
Thank you, Walt.

So finding a Flues Grade 1 or 1 1/2 in very good condition like the one pictured above with so few made is quite an accomplishment....
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 08:12 PM
Finding 100 year old any things in high condition is an accomplishment.

I think Flues model Ithaca’s in all of their flavors are reasonably common.
I see five or so 28’s per year available, without looking for them specifically.

So, that would more or less satisfy my interest.

Guns like that beautiful Triumph self opener that was shown here (Thank-You to whomever), guns like that I consider rare.
Posted By: Researcher Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 09:23 PM
A No. 1 1/2E on GI --

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-1-1-2-grade-28-ga-.cfm?gun_id=101579811

Been here a while.
Posted By: battle Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 10:23 PM
I got mine for half that and the butt isn’t cut like that one on GI.
Posted By: Walter C. Snyder Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 10:34 PM
The gun on GI is an ejector gun for what that is worth.
Posted By: battle Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/20/21 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by Walter C. Snyder
The gun on GI is an ejector gun for what that is worth.

I still wouldn’t pay 5K premium for ejectors, with a cut up butt...
Posted By: NCTarheel Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 12:12 AM
So, here is another one....

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...de-1-flues-28-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101540383



What would be a reasonable fair market value for an Ithaca Flues Grade 1 or 1 1/2?
Posted By: battle Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 02:11 AM
Looks like it was restocked.
Posted By: Researcher Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 03:15 PM
FWIW the last Flues era big Ithaca Gun Co. catalog, 1925, gives chamber lengths at the bottom of page 20 -- "Unless otherwise ordered Ithaca 28 Gauge and 20 Gauge guns are chambered for the standard 2 1/2 inch shell, ...."
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 03:22 PM
I use to have a GR2 Flues 28ga. Sold it a few years ago and then heard it was sold again and stolen/lost in transit. What a shame.
Didnt have the normal 3" of drop. Such a nice gun. Had a couple of Flues with the above style 1-1/2 engraving and never warmed up to them. Reminds me of an LC Smith.
Posted By: Researcher Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 05:16 PM
My 28-gauge No. 1 Special with 30-inch Cockerill Steel barrels was shipped May 25, 1915 to F.W. Pierce. It has 2 7/8 inch chambers, but I have no idea if it was shipped that way or lengthened later.
Posted By: topgun Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 06:55 PM
I once owned an Ithaca Flues model 2-E 20-bore with 26" barrels; it was a beautiful light weight little gun but I couldn't shoot the thing worth a dang, it was just too light. Had the same issue with a 28-bore VH Grade 00 framed Parker; it was just too light, and with both guns I became a "poke and shoot" gunner. These guns were so light I found myself just reacting and failing to remember basic shooting fundamentals. But that was 20 years ago, might appreciate that light weight now as 12-bores feel much heavier at age 70 than they did at 50.
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 09:16 PM
You are correct , Tom.
Easy to start easy to stop.
It takes disciplined shooting to shoot an ultralight well.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Ithaca 28ga - 02/21/21 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by topgun
I once owned an Ithaca Flues model 2-E 20-bore with 26" barrels; it was a beautiful light weight little gun but I couldn't shoot the thing worth a dang, it was just too light. Had the same issue with a 28-bore VH Grade 00 framed Parker; it was just too light, and with both guns I became a "poke and shoot" gunner. These guns were so light I found myself just reacting and failing to remember basic shooting fundamentals. But that was 20 years ago, might appreciate that light weight now as 12-bores feel much heavier at age 70 than they did at 50.

About ten years ago I found myself having to learn to shoot ultralight .410s, to prove to my 8 year old grandson that a .410 was an effective dove gun, not just an "appeaser" for kids. What I found was that I developed an entirely different shooting style than with any of my other guns, which were a minimum of 2 lbs. heavier. I learned to mount the gun as I was swinging on the dove, and when it hit my shoulder pocket the lead was almost already right, and hit the trigger. Really more of a fluid move than I was used to on my heavier guns. The little thing only weighs 4 lbs. 14 oz., but I was able to soon get the hang of it and now even shoot some of my 28, 20 and 16 ga. dove guns with that method. It's highly effective for me with lighter guns.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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