Hi,
I’m in a situation where the British-American debate is not hypothetical. Beyond all the other shotguns I’ve used over the years, I’ve been searching for twenty years for the right side by side. Over the years I’ve owned a modest Spanish double, a really nice Lefever DS grade that didn’t fit, an inherited Damascus Parker GH, and I currently own a Sterlingworth pin gun and LC Smith featherweight.

Of all these guns, I shoot the Sterlingworth best. It’s a 12 ga, 30” full and full I use for waterfowl. Without making this story longer than necessary, I looking at buying another gun from a double gun guy up here, six hours drive away. He mostly specializes in classic British doubles 2-1/2” chambers to keep them affordable, but he has a couple Parker’s for sale. Both are VH grade 12 gauge, one completely original 2-3/4” 30” full and full- $3,000, the other with a poorly reblued barrels, 3” chambers, must have been done a long time ago and refinished original stock $1,500.

I hunt a lot, mostly waterfowl average two days a week, but I also love pheasant hunting east of the mountains. My budget is $3,000, I’m torn between buying one of those really nice British guns, beautiful wood, fancy engraving, light straight stock, but both Parker’s look nice too. Please help.😀

find what fits you best. They are all good guns. Shooting is more about proper fit than what country made the gun.

buy a six pound, 16 ga fox for birds...why burden yourself with a heavy, clunky ole parker...an skip the limey gons...lots of them dumped here with dangerously thin barrel walls...plus, they are often stocked for shooting incoming potted birds, not like our fair chase, flushed, american style bird hunting guns...

and by all means, alter the wood on the 16 to match your 12 gauge fox, which fits you so well...

For a really well engineered SXS, one that is built for your enjoyment and not your gunsmith's profit look at the Beretta 626.

I don't know what kind of loads you use for ducks, but if they're near the 1 1/4 oz. range I wouldn't be considering a lightweight, straight stocked gun. I find a straight grip pretty, but less adaptable to duck loads than a pistol, or semi-pistol, grip. I have a restocked 32" barreled A grade Phil. Fox with 3" chambers that I really should move down the road. It's straight gripped and I just cannot shoot it as well as my pistol gripped Fox duck guns. It's basically a single shot for me because it's just so much harder to manage the recoil before getting on that second shot. Light weight exacerbates that issue. I know Bo Whoop was straight gripped and Mr. Nash managed it just fine with heavy loads, but I ain't him. Most people ain't.

berettas are wonderful gons...if you like that sorta thang...

To be more clear I’m looking at having two good side by sides. A dedicated waterfowl gun that can handle 1-1/4 oz loads, that fits well, is reliable and weighs mid seven pounds and a nice light upland gun either a 16 ga or light 12.

Right now I have that restored LC 12 ga featherweight, that is a pretty gun, weighs 6#-9oz, 28” barrels, seems to fit well but for some reason I just am not in love with it.

I bought the Sterly from a respected member of this forum who has been a saint to work with. It’s a late pin gun in fair originally condition, no color left but no pitting on the outside. There is some pitting inside the barrels just forward of the chambers, but my gunsmith say nothing to worry about, the stock may have been revarnished at some point, but it has all the dings and handling marks you would expect out of an old gun. The only problem with it is it occasionally pops open on shooting. I’ve got it with another gunsmith right now to hopefully fix that permanently. Both gunsmiths say the gun is in great condition inside, the internal parts are clean, and don’t appear overly worn.

So my issues with the Fox are reliability and looks of the beat up stock. I’m ok with the look of the barrels and action.

Btw, the Parker I’m looking at is a 16 ga, 28 barrels 6#-6oz. I’m going to check on the stock dimensions.

Beware of the Parker with 3” chambers unless it was made that way at the factory. If lengthened, the wall thickness in front of the chamber may have been compromised. If it’s a #2 frame it may be OK but not necessarily. Also, heavy recoil loads could do damage to that old wood. Caveat emptor!

Yep, I talked to Delgreco and he warned me about that. On the other hand, it is a #2 frame with relatively heavy (4#-4oz) barrels, and appears to have been done a long time ago. My gunsmith, a Parker guy, thinks it’s probably proved itself after being shot this long. Btw, I would never shoot 3” anything out of it, 2-3/4” 1-1/4 Oz loads of bismuth or lead.

Oh, I forgot to mention it’s a VHE, both ejectors work, but the right one is weaker than the left. Hopefully it just needs a thorough cleaning and it’s not some broken part.

Sent you a PM.

The boys at the now defunct Ivory Beads felt that the Sterly was the best of the American classics for waterfowling, even with steel. Since yours is F/F, I'd be real careful if using steel in it. So it sounds like you have the waterfowl part covered. For a light upland gun, the Parker 16 at 6-6 with 28" barrels might be on a zero frame. If it's a zero, that is a nearly ideal upland gun for extended carry. I have a Parker 16/28" on a one frame that weighs a bit more than that, and another Parker 16/28" on a zero frame that weighs a bit less than that. Both are great guns and handle 2-3/4" field loads (including the occasional pheasant loads) with no problems. Solid guns, attractive, will hold their value. On the other hand, I have one (only one) Brit gun, a 12/28" hammergun with laminated barrels. It's a beauty and I love to shoot it. That vs a Parker would be a tough choice. Standard advice is to buy the best gun you can find that fits you and your budget. A quality Spanish gun can be a real bargain if you know what you are looking at.

a 6 1/2 pound parker is clubby when compared to a 6 pound fox....particularly at the end of the day when you been breaking trail in the thick stuff, where the birds are...

and if you are old an tired, a 5 1/2 pound ithaca 20 is even a better idea...

GJ, Check your PMs

We do a lot of walking chasing pheasants out here in Montana, but pretty open country. I’m 71 now, been hunting since 1966. I was a one gun hunter, a 12 ga Winchester pump, for my first 25 years, then started adding shotguns for different applications. I already mentioned all the side by sides I’ve had, but several over under’s should be counted. A nice 20 ga mid 70s Winchester 101 was my lightest. I’ve come to believe, for me a 6 to 6-1/2# gun is my best compromise between easy carry and smooth swinging. I actually carried my 7-1/4# Lefever in the field for years without issue.

I also have my dad’s 16 ga Model 12 with straight stock and nice wood, it’s a very nice upland gun.

12 ga. VH Parkers in shooting (as opposed to collecting) condition are all over the market at $1000, plus or minus a couple of hundred. 16 ga. VHE in original condition might get $3000, but would have to be really nice. Cant tell without seeing the guns but they seem overpriced based on the description. I have several 16 ga. field guns, two Parkers, an LC, and an Ithaca. All weigh between 6-5 and 6-12 and carry much nicer than a 7 1/2 lb 12 bore imho. You wont lose money on a 16 ga. if you buy it prudently. (I shy away from English guns, as you can probably tell, not because they are bad guns, but because they are so variable in design and fit. Again, jmho.)

I just a quick google search and found eighteen 16 ga Parker VH-VHEs; $4,500, 4,000, 7,750, 2,850, 6,000, 2,500, 3,250, 4,000, 6,900, 4,500, 4,000, 2,800, 3,300, 2,300, 6,000, 2,250, 4,000, Trojan 2,400, and a very poor condition VH for 2,850.

I did find a nice shooter Sterlingworth with 28” barrels, 2-1/2” chambers for $1,400.00.

Admittedly a lot of those $5,000-$7,000 Parker’s are in good original condition, but the few I found under 3,000 are in pretty bad shape. I don’t need pristine, but I want a nice looking gun. I don’t mind a gone-grey action, but no pitting please. Same with the barrels, no pitting and at least 60% original bluing, and the stock can’t be beat to hell.

Not that I doubt you, I’d just like to find one of these $1,000 VH’s. Also the term “shooter” is rather vague. I have a feeling I’m looking for something between shooter and collectible.

This is one area where I think the Brits have it better. Over here it’s considered sacrilege to restore anotherwise medium condition old gun. Over there, they don’t have the same hang up, to re-blue a gun, or even properly sleeve the barrels is no big thing.

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/picture.php?id=12986

Link to the Parker

Link to the English 2.5” 12ga
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/picture.php?id=13011

Here is a VH appearing in very nice shape with no bids at $1550 and $1800 Buy it Now. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893764730 . A 20 ga. very nice gun just sold for $2590. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/890556119. Here's what looks like a decent Trojan shooter for $1099 with no bids.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893173664 Have to admit I was relying on memory of market impressions a few months ago rather than a current search. The $1000 VH 12 guns out there now seem to have significant issues. Sorry if I mislead you.

I would be buying the VH, either at the Buy It Now price or bid aggressively.

Thank you guys so much! Making dinner now, but thank you

Have you guys looked at that 12 ga VH? It’s pretty mint and so original it’s still got short chambers and an extra full Ryan choke. For it to be useful I’d have to open the chokes a bit and maybe lengthen the chamber to 2-3/4” which for that gun seems sacrilegious.

I love American guns, Parkers, Smiths, Lefevers, Ithacas. All have served well in the fields for generations. But for a lightweight field gun, it’s hard to beat the Brits. Personally, I prefer Italian guns. But if I was choosing between the two, a well made British field is probably a better choice than an American gun. Of course, both will do you just fine. Attend a sxs shoot in the US and what do you find? Mostly American guns. Why? Because we are Americans. We love our old Parkers and we should. But I have to give credit where it is due, the Brits make darn fine shotguns.

Well now you did it😀, I just bought that Parker! Now I have to reevaluate my situation as the Parker will most likely replace my Fox as my dedicated duck gun. I’ll probably sell the Fox and LC Smith featherweight, then buy a nice 16 ga Fox or English light twelve down the road.

Anyway thank you so much for the tip, that’s a really nice gun at a very good price.

John:

If the gun you bought has short chambers, don't have them lengthened rather have the forcing cones angles reduced. It will pretty well get you the same place without removing a lot of metal. Contact Mike Orlen about this sort of work.

Good advice, thanks