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Posted By: SKB A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/04/21 07:22 PM
The Atkin Gough Thomas had built for himself:


https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++1450+&refno=++161032&saletype=
Posted By: Imperdix Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/04/21 07:46 PM
A fine and very usable piece of history! Surely a low estimate of value.
Posted By: KDGJ Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/04/21 09:05 PM
The gun has been for sale for quite awhile. Last price I saw it listed at was £24,000. Interesting it is up for auction with the £7-9k estimate.

Ken
Posted By: gunut Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 12:30 AM
Scrap iron prices have dropped....??... whistle
Posted By: Imperdix Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 06:07 AM
I guess its value has greatly diminished due to the impending loss of lead shot here in UK ,as well as the thinning of the ranks of those who read its owners books and articles .....all of which are rapidly becoming things of the past.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 01:38 PM
Carl Russell has had this listed on his for awhile. Very nice Atkin. I love an Atkin and this is one I would love to own.
I went to Holt's site and did not see this Atkin listed.
Posted By: SKB Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by PALUNC
I went to Holt's site and did not see this Atkin listed.

Go to the June catalog and enter the sidelock ejector category, or follow the link I posted.
Posted By: lagopus Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 02:43 PM
A bargain for someone if it goes within that price estimate. He wrote extensively about this gun in Shooting Times magazine and had it made, in his opinion, as the ideal Game Gun. If I had the spare cash at the moment I would consider leaving a bid. Sadly , new vehicle may take precedence. Lagopus…..
Posted By: KY Jon Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 04:55 PM
27” barrels don’t help it’s value. Funny thing is that 30 years ago short barrels were the rage and long barrels were very hard to move. Just think what this gun would cost to have made today. 50,000 pounds? Twice that? And here it might bring just a few thousand. I think there are going to be a lot of bargains over the next few years for those with cash and a place to shoot lead shot.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 05:31 PM
AG & L recently built some replicas of it which were £50k .Saw one at their shooting ground,looked a nice gun!!!
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 06:03 PM
This could be detrimental to my Wallet, but he and I have the same initials

Just saying
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 07:49 PM
Sometimes I get this wrong, but, I seem to recall this gun as having had a major problem that was repaired, leaving it not quite GT’s gun. Barrels? Sleeved? Restock?
I can’t remember. But, if it is anything I listed, above, especially sleeving, it isn’t worth the price being asked now, much less what was being asked, before.
Gough Thomas ordered this gun late in life, and, as he clearly explained, it was intended to be his last gun, and featured many compromises that would help to keep an old man (that he planned on being someday) in the game, so to speak. The length of the tubes and the weight of the gun, being the most obvious of those.

Nice gun. But, it was his nice gun.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: KDGJ Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Imperdix
AG & L recently built some replicas of it which were £50k .Saw one at their shooting ground,looked a nice gun!!!

The new Atkin GT gun being produced has 29" barrels and a tad over 7 lbs. New AGL. It is bespoke so I guess you could order it with 27" barrels and less weight.

Ted,

The gun at Holt's does not mention sleeved or thin barrels. Holt's generally lists those items. Holt's doesn't have bore measurements out yet. GT had an issue he didn't like with the gun on initial delivery and Atkin corrected the issues quickly. If you have more information, please post.

Ken
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/05/21 09:04 PM
My mistake. I thought about it a bit, and realized it was actually this gun:

https://www.thefield.co.uk/reviews/gun-reviews/percy-stanburys-webley-scott

Best,
Ted
Posted By: JohnfromUK Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/06/21 07:47 AM
The gun has either been up for sale, or changed hands several times since GT's ownership. That may in itself be either people 'speculating' on a famous gun, or maybe the gun didn't meet their expectations?
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/06/21 10:40 AM
It's likely that the low estimate is not an "estimate of value" at all, but a ploy to get more bidders into the arena, to get the actual sale price higher, the same principle as penny auctions.
Posted By: Owenjj3 Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/06/21 11:54 AM
The gun was most recently at Bonham’s last winter where it had a 10-15k sterling estimate, but drew no bids. Bonhams. Nick Holt Released a video of himself examining the gun, however I cannot locate it at this point.
Posted By: Shotgunlover Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/07/21 09:59 AM
"27” barrels don’t help it’s value. Funny thing is that 30 years ago short barrels were the rage and long barrels were very hard to move."

Bespoke gunmakers used to advise the client that barrel length should harmonise with his height. Some still do. A less diplomatic gunsmith I used to know put it more directly to a 5 foot 2 guy who wanted a 30 inch barrel A302 auto: "you are a stumpy little guy, with that gun you will look real funny".
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/07/21 10:51 AM
That is true.

In my own case, 32 inch barrels with a splinter forend in a side-by-side, unless it has a 15+ inch length of pull, looks stupid. Out of proportion.

My arms are short, so it starts to look like a garden rake.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/07/21 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
This could be detrimental to my Wallet, but he and I have the same initials

Just saying

Careful there, Grey Man. You're slipping again.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/08/21 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
My mistake. I thought about it a bit, and realized it was actually this gun:

https://www.thefield.co.uk/reviews/gun-reviews/percy-stanburys-webley-scott

Best,
Ted

Interesting story on Stanbury's Webley & Scott, Ted. The article mentions that the gun was out of proof when the current owner bought it. I wonder why? Not because of bore diameter. Could it have had original 2 1/2" chambers, later lengthened to 2 3/4" without reproof? 2 1/2" chambers and 1 1/4 oz proof would be very unusual. And the gun was made in 1921, but chamber length wasn't a required proofmark until 1925.
Posted By: JohnfromUK Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/08/21 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by L. Brown
Not because of bore diameter. Could it have had original 2 1/2" chambers, later lengthened to 2 3/4" without reproof? 2 1/2" chambers and 1 1/4 oz proof would be very unusual. And the gun was made in 1921, but chamber length wasn't a required proofmark until 1925.

It may have originally been proved at .719 (13/1) which would have gone out of proof at .728. Current quote bores in the article are within correct range for a nominal 12 (but not a nominal 13/1 - That would be my most likely explanation.

The gun is similar in specification to a 'live pigeon' type gun -. and these frequently started life with 2 3/4 chambers, 1 1/4 oz proof.
Posted By: Roy Hebbes Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/08/21 03:15 PM
The gun in question, is pictured on the dust cover of G.T.Garwood's [Goff Thomas ] ,"Gun Book," Records show it is gun #3512,made in 1948, actioned by the late Bill Mealy,
and engraved by Harry Kell. It is a self opening hammerless ejector. It was or still is a splendid example of a best London gun.
Posted By: JohnfromUK Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/08/21 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Roy Hebbes
Records show it is gun #3512.

According to older auction listings (see below) it is no. 3510.

https://www.bonhams.com/press_release/31240/

https://www.carlrussellandco.com/gough-thomas-shotgun/

https://www.bonhams.com/press_release/15159/

https://www.carlrussellandco.com/gough-thomass-henry-atkin-12g-spring-opening-sidelock/
Posted By: Bajajack Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 04/13/21 12:28 PM
Here are the barrel measurements for Lot 1450, though the auction date is wrong.

https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/admin/Bore_Measurements.pdf
Posted By: Owenjj3 Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 05/13/21 02:43 AM
Found the Holts Video on the GT Garwood Atkin.

Posted By: Tom Findrick Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 05/13/21 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by JohnfromUK

Nick Holt, in the video, reads “3510” off of the gun at 3:30.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 05/13/21 06:18 PM
Photo of action flats on auction site shows 3510 too.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 06/22/21 04:55 PM
£10k hammer price today.
Posted By: KDGJ Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 06/22/21 05:43 PM
The retail asking prices were around £20k not to long ago. What do you think of the price?

Ken
Posted By: KY Jon Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 06/22/21 05:56 PM
So a 10K bid is 13k with house vig and vat is $18,119.40. With 27” barrels that might be full retail these days. Some are thrilled by the celebrity history and some could care less. With 30” barrels I expect it would have bought more.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: A fine sidelock, with provenance - 06/22/21 07:01 PM
I think it was truly an an outstanding gun. I have a 1927 spring opener that I would have to get 20K for if I wanted to sell it. Henry Atkin's are fantastic guns.
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